Repainting Lima GUVs - to prime or not to prime?

[9C85]

Can anyone tell me, or better still provide a photo of , where the 'Newspapers- return empty to Manchester Red Bank ' ( or Old Oak Common/ Bristol Pyle Hill etc) lettering would be positioned on a GUV or BG dedicated to Newspapers traffic? 

I am putting together a Newspapers train which will be returning to Red Bank from the fictional location of my layout, and I have transfers at the ready for my two latest Lima GUV conversions. 

I have seen a video on YouTube of a Newspapers train at BTM with a brief glimpse of a coach with 'Return to Old Oak Common' branding but I am b###ered if I can find it again! 

 

Thanks in advance 

[9C85]

On 10/09/2020 at 06:29, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Glad you like it.

I use Glue and Glaze since it became available, but I have also used matt and gloss varnish, diluted PVA and canopy glue, you just need to use something non aggressive, and very little of it at that, and run it in at the rear of the glazing inside the coach.

Don't forget to blacken the edges of the glazing with a marker pen to eradicate the possibility of a prismatic effect.

Beware though, when you see how good one piece of rolling stock looks it's a slippery slope!

 

Mike.

 

I am looking forward to seeing the results.

I have noticed that the larger windows are clear but the smaller ones appear 'frosted'. I assume this frosting is a protective film? 

I am also guessing that the windows need to be installed with the film to the outside of the coach and that the film should be removed after installation.  Is this correct? Thanks again. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

23 minutes ago, 9C85 said:

I am looking forward to seeing the results.

I have noticed that the larger windows are clear but the smaller ones appear 'frosted'. I assume this frosting is a protective film? 

I am also guessing that the windows need to be installed with the film to the outside of the coach and that the film should be removed after installation.  Is this correct? Thanks again. 

 

Yes, some of the windows may still have their protective film on them, I would  advise taking it off before fixing as it's a lot easier.

If you look closely at the glazing you will see it has a beve!!ed/mitred edge, the "narrow" part of the glazing goes to the inside of the body moulding, this will coincide with the draft angle of the body moulding and give the flush effect.

Don't forget that the glazing in the droplights in the doors should be slightly recessed as per the prototype.

Did you take a brave pill and remove the raised moulding around the windows?, it will improve the look of the finished model no end.

 

Mike.

[9C85]

19 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Did you take a brave pill and remove the raised moulding around the windows?, it will improve the look of the finished model no end.

 

Mike.

I did try on one window but I gouged too much out so I decided to leave it this time around.  Maybe next time. 

[cheesysmith]

Bogies, cheaper to use replica kit ones with Hornby 14mm coach wheels than the Bachmann one, fitting them is well within your ability.

 

Replacement lima wheels, use the Hornby 156 ones, as these have the shorter axles and are the incorrect size for the sprinter of 12mm.

 

Have you tried doing the pealing roof effect? Simple to do, just spray a different colour (rust or even primer etc), then cut some random shapes out of blue tac, place on the roof, then spray your roof colour on top.

[9C85]

1 hour ago, cheesysmith said:

Have you tried doing the pealing roof effect? Simple to do, just spray a different colour (rust or even primer etc), then cut some random shapes out of blue tac, place on the roof, then spray your roof colour on top.

I am planning to do my roofs this week.  They are already primed so I will try this effect.  Many thanks. 

[9C85]

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/h306c3dfb

Of course the answer could be found on Paul Bartlett's excellent website. 

[cheesysmith]

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/h306c3dfb#h1a050a84

 

This is the kind of effect you can replicate using a grey primer and a darker roof colour. I have done a few myself, and for such a easy trick it is surprisingly effective. 

[9C85]

1 hour ago, cheesysmith said:

 

This is the kind of effect you can replicate using a grey primer and a darker roof colour. I have done a few myself, and for such a easy trick it is surprisingly effective. 

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brnpccs/h30685ab

Did you mean this one? 

 

[9C85]

A frustrating evening.  I actually managed to get some time to do layout stuff. I have been busy with a garden project for the past few weeks. 

I decided to apply Newspapers transfers to my latest Lima GUVs. It took quite a while to get a decent result.

When I had finished applying the transfers, I gave them a coat of Testors Dullcote.  Within a couple of minutes of spraying, some of the transfers had started to lift, including a couple of the main Newspapers branding. I have ended up taking the offending articles off, so now I have some sides of coaches with just the numbers and 'Return to Red Bank Manchester ' transfers.

I don't know what I have done wrong.  Perhaps I let the transfers soak for too long? The instructions don't give a definitive time, they just state 'don't leave the transfers soak too long'.

Or perhaps I applied the Dullcote before the transfers had dried fully?

Anyone else had a similar problem?

Edited September 14, 2020 by 9C85
Added photos

[Mick Bonwick]

I'd advise leaving the transfers for what seems like a lifetime before applying the current formulation of Dullcote. At least a week!

 

Dullcote applied over transfers should be the thinnest possible layer. Your problem is one that I have experienced only once, and I'm sure that it was because the layer of Dullcote was too heavy.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I hold you entirely responsible for setting me off down the road of Lima GUV upgrading!

I've dug a model out of the vault and started to give it a re-work and enclose a couple of pictures to show my route to an upgrade, showing you my method of window frame removal and roof vent stripping and the tools used. I can post wip pictures if you're ok with me cluttering your thread, but understand if not.

None of this is intended as criticism of your excellent work just a different way of doing things.

I use dullcote exclusively and have sprayed over what must be all manufacturers transfers and never had an issue, so I'm at a loss to see where you're having problems. Is it really old dullcote, that might be a cause?

 

Mike.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Enterprisingwestern
dullcote.

[9C85]

8 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

I use dullcote exclusively and have sprayed over what must be all manufacturers transfers and never had an issue, so I'm at a loss to see where you're having problems. Is it really old dullcote, that might be a cause?

 

Mike.

Hello Mike,

Feel free to put up as much info as you want... it's all about learning. 

I bought the Dullcote only a few months ago, for my first GUV conversions, so I assume it is from a new batch. 

I think my problem is a combination of me soaking the Railtec transfers for too long, so the adhesive was also partially washed away, and then more or less straight away  (within an hour) applying the Dullcote.

I have now used/wasted all the Newspapers branding from two sets of Railtec Transfers - six in each set, and I am left with a load of Express Parcels and Motorail branding which I will probably not need.

I should get my glue and glaze in a day or so, and I will have a go at the laserglaze.  

I will have to think how to reattach the roof once the original glazing strip has been removed . Glue and glaze again?

[Bedlington North]

Your transfers look to me as though they have "silvered". This is caused by air trapped under the transfer film. You should apply the transfer over the most glossy surface you can to allow the transfer to grip the surface of the model and exclude air. 

 

Are you just applying the transfers directly over the blue paint or are you applying a clear gloss coating of some kind prior to transfer application? 

[Mick Bonwick]

If you're not going to use the remaining transfers, you might be able to do a little test with them. Paint a piece of plastic card, apply the transfers and leave some for a day, some for a week and some for a month. At each interval, spray one of them with Dullcote and see what happens. You could even spray each set in pairs, one light and one heavy coat. It won't help your GUVs, but it might be of interest to other RMwebbers.

 

No pressure.

[P.C.M]

I have never had a lot of luck with waterslide transfers if I am honest. I used Presfix transfers on my Lima GUVs. The lima model comes up well I think.

 

Cheers Peter.

[9C85]

1 hour ago, P.C.M said:

I have never had a lot of luck with waterslide transfers if I am honest. I used Presfix transfers on my Lima GUVs. The lima model comes up well I think.

 

Cheers Peter.

 

They look great 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Apologies for the recent takeover, it's all me me me!

My modus operandi re transfers.

Cut the transfer as close to the edge of the lettering as possible leaving minimum carrier film.

Dampen, not wet, a piece of kitchen roll and put in a saucer or similar. Floating them in water is big no no for me, far too uncontrollable.

Place the transfer on the kitchen roll.

As soon as the transfer loosens from the carrier film lift the whole piece from the roll and place by the side of the intended position on the model and slide carefully off.

Roughly position the transfer and roll a cotton bud over it to dry it off.

Brush a small amount of decal setting compound over it and carefully nudge it into its final position and dry off with another cotton bud. For nudging purposes I use cocktail sticks, brushes and make up sponge tips on small applicators.

Job done.

I use various red oxide undercoat sprays as bauxite on my wagons which leaves a less than glossy finish and this method seats the transfers down adequately, and a Dullcote spray doesn't cause any problems.

To save posting it again there's a photo of one of my wagons so adorned on Clive Mortimer's thread.

 

Mike.

PS. I'll have the spare transfers if you're looking for a home!!

 

[9C85]

I haven't used any setting compound.  I just followed the instructions on the packet. I did use the cocktail stick/cotton bud combo though and got the transfers more or less where they should have been .

[Bedlington North]

Just in case you missed it....Did you apply the transfers over a very glossy surface (IE a gloss overcoat after the blue paint)?

 

If you didn't then it looks like the transfers have got air trapped under them (known as silvering) and this obviously affects their adhesion. Once you then put a coat of Dullcote on they may well have shrunk off the surface of the model.

[Enterprisingwestern]

33 minutes ago, Bedlington North said:

Just in case you missed it....Did you apply the transfers over a very glossy surface (IE a gloss overcoat after the blue paint)?

 

If you didn't then it looks like the transfers have got air trapped under them (known as silvering) and this obviously affects their adhesion. Once you then put a coat of Dullcote on they may well have shrunk off the surface of the model.

 

It's a fallacy that transfers "must" be applied over a gloss finish, yes it helps and simplifies, but it is not a necessity, although going too rough and matt may well defeat the object.

 

Mike.

[Bedlington North]

Fallacy or not if you look at one of the pictures the OP posted you can clearly see severe silvering. That means the transfers aren't stuck to the model and anything you do after that is a lottery in terms of the transfer sticking. Quite apart from that, silvering looks rubbish and is simple to avoid by using a glossy surface under the transfer. YMMV, but I've never had any issues with transfers of any brand or age when I've applied them over my favourite gloss (Johnsons Klear).

 

See two pics of my own aircraft models - literally no evidence of transfer carrier film and the transfers have "melded" into the models surface nicely. They also accepted a sealing coat of varnish with no problems.....

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

 

Comet shell vents fitted to replace the rather nondescript originals.

 

 

Initial spraying complete.

Underframe. Tensocrom underframe dirt acrylic.

Body. Rail match faded blue enamel thinned with white spirit.

Roof. Halfords grey plastic primer. As the roof moulding is clear plastic I also spray the underneath just in case the top gets scratched.

Now onto weathering, I might do a salt variation of the multi colour roof, some clag on the bodysides and oil and grease highlights on the underframe along with some Masokits screw couplings.

Those of you who know my connection with Brian at Shawplan may be amused to know I don't have any Laserglaze, a phone call beckons!

I shall also have to have a look in the transfer stash to see if I have anything suitable, the MTK parcel van sheet might yield something, failing all else a trawl of the internet also beckons.

 

Mike.

[Fat Controller]

MTK transfers? Mopok, perhaps?

Railtex do a sheet for various blue GUVs:- https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=772

[9C85]

13 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

MTK transfers? Mopok, perhaps?

Railtex do a sheet for various blue GUVs:- https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=772

The Railtec transfers are the ones I have  been using. I used up all 6 Newspapers transfers on the 2 coaches and only one has survived the process. I wouldn't be so miffed if I hadn't followed the instructions to the letter  - no mention of glossy surfaces.