Repainting Lima GUVs - to prime or not to prime?

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

MTK transfers? Mopok, perhaps?

Railtex do a sheet for various blue GUVs:- https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=772

 

Definitely MTK, sheet T6 Parcels, vans.

Hints at 5 others, ISTR there were more.

I've had them that long they are going brown around the edges.

 

Mike.

[9C85]

 

The previously Theakston's liveried GUV is now back in service  temporarily.  I need to paint the roof, trying the blu-tak peel effect and weather the living daylights out of the rest of the coach  with black wash, sleeper grime, roof dirt, oil stains, chalk? I am waiting to make my mind up on whether to laserglaze the other coach before painting both together, plus possibly weathering my Class 47 at the same time.   The laserglaze product itself is excellent- it's just my massive clumsy fingers when gluing tiny components is the problem.  I hadn't realised that there's a protective film on both sides of the glazing - one frosted, one clear.  If I decide to do it again, I will start peeling both sides to get a peelable 'tab' before  gluing, then peel off fully once affixed.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Are you sure you've put the glazing in the right way round?

 

Mike.

[9C85]

44 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Are you sure you've put the glazing in the right way round?

 

Mike.

Errm.... not really 

[9C85]

I have just returned from the garage after trying out the latest addition 'in  service' . I realised that, with everything I have been doing in the garden, and concentrating on the GUV conversions, I hadn't had a shunting session for probably over a month.

It didn't start well as I used the 08 which will argue with any dirty track (I will give it all a proper clean this weekend), the Kadees weren't really playing ball either - not staying uncoupled on the delayed action, or even more annoyingly uncoupling when being pulled over the magnet.

I did manage to get all my serviceable Mk1 GUV so into a pseudo-newspaper train and kept tagging BGs onto it until I confirmed that I can have a maximum train length of six 57ft coaches. So if I get the other GUV finished  (still looking for 12mm Lima wheel replacements andI have lost my plasticard in the mess that is my garage, so I can't make 3mm bosses for the Kadees), I will probably look to finish the 'papers train with a BG in blue and use on of my grotty blue/grey BGs to make up the six with the four GUVS.

I have been thinking that I have put a lot of wasted effort in lately, mostly due to my lack of skills, and was wondering whether it was all worth it, but when things start to work well, itis enjoyable. 

I took this photo to remind me what the point is.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by 9C85

[cctransuk]

On 15/09/2020 at 15:29, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

It's a fallacy that transfers "must" be applied over a gloss finish, yes it helps and simplifies, but it is not a necessity, although going too rough and matt may well defeat the object.

 

Mike.

 

As a transfer producer, I'm afraid that this 'fallacy' is itself a fallacy.

 

It is physically impossible to get waterslide transfers to adhere to a model, without any 'silvering', unless the surface is VERY smooth - for which read glossy. Any surface that appears less than glossy is microscopically rough.

 

The very best way that I have found to apply waterslide transfers is to apply them to an already glossy surface - into wet Klear floor lacquer. The wet Klear eliminates all air below the carrier film, and the film of Klear over the carrier film seals it and renders it invisible. You have to be quick, though - Klear dries very fast!

 

John Isherwood.

[9C85]

9 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

As a transfer producer, I'm afraid that this 'fallacy' is itself a fallacy.

 

It is physically impossible to get waterslide transfers to adhere to a model, without any 'silvering', unless the surface is VERY smooth - for which read glossy. Any surface that appears less than glossy is microscopically rough.

 

The very best way that I have found to apply waterslide transfers is to apply them to an already glossy surface - into wet Klear floor lacquer. The wet Klear eliminates all air below the carrier film, and the film of Klear over the carrier film seals it and renders it invisible. You have to be quick, though - Klear dries very fast!

 

John Isherwood.

 

So, do you wet the transfers solely with the Klear in situ , or are they wetted with water first to a point where they can be slid off the backing?

 

Thanks for the useful information. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

As a transfer producer, I'm afraid that this 'fallacy' is itself a fallacy.

 

It is physically impossible to get waterslide transfers to adhere to a model, without any 'silvering', unless the surface is VERY smooth - for which read glossy. Any surface that appears less than glossy is microscopically rough.

 

The very best way that I have found to apply waterslide transfers is to apply them to an already glossy surface - into wet Klear floor lacquer. The wet Klear eliminates all air below the carrier film, and the film of Klear over the carrier film seals it and renders it invisible. You have to be quick, though - Klear dries very fast!

 

John Isherwood.

 

Apologies for successfully doing it wrong all these years John, and muddying the water so to speak!

 

Mike.

[9C85]

Pledge multi surface wax on order. 

 

750ml though... I will have enough to do this lot.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by 9C85
Photo duplication

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, 9C85 said:

 

So, do you wet the transfers solely with the Klear in situ , or are they wetted with water first to a point where they can be slid off the backing?

 

Thanks for the useful information. 

 

Wet the transfer by floating it in shallow water as usual - when ready, slide it off into wet Klear which has been applied IMMEDIATELY beforehand; you will have sufficient time to adjust the position - but don't hang about!

 

John Isherwood.

[9C85]

1 hour ago, 9C85 said:

 

 

 

Anyone else notice the ex-works passenger coaches interspersed between the usual grimy parcels/paper stuff in the rake central to the picture ?  I initially thought they were all BGs but the second one in looks like a BSK/BFK judging by the roof vents?

I know paper train staff used to travel in passenger coaches for the journey to the pick up point, but these look more like coaches tagged into a train to go back into service ?

Either way, it could justify a bit less weathering on a couple of coaches?

Sorry, just typing aloud now.

 

[Mick Bonwick]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Wet the transfer by floating it in shallow water as usual - when ready, slide it off into wet Klear which has been applied IMMEDIATELY beforehand; you will have sufficient time to adjust the position - but don't hang about!

 

John Isherwood.

 

I would have liked to be able to acknowledge the helpfulness of your post, John, but there is no option at the bottom of it to allow me to do that, hence this quoted entry.

[cctransuk]

9 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

I would have liked to be able to acknowledge the helpfulness of your post, John, but there is no option at the bottom of it to allow me to do that, hence this quoted entry.

 

I'm afraid that I seem to be semi-permanently on the 'naughty step' - hence my inability to receive acknowledgements!

 

Your appreciation is appreciated, nonetheless.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[9C85]

6 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

I would have liked to be able to acknowledge the helpfulness of your post, John, but there is no option at the bottom of it to allow me to do that, hence this quoted entry.

 

Ditto 

[lapford34102]

Hi,

With my blue tin hat on both CCtransuk and Enterprising Western are correct. I've cut corners decalling and got away with it and I know others have. It is  a gamble though depending on the quality of the carrier film, it's thickness, the type of paint it's going on, whether you're using decal products like Microsol/set or Gunze's Mr Setter/softer and so on and so forth. It is doable but probably depends on experience. I would agree with John though that to reduce the chances of silvering to an absolute minimum glossing the surface is the way to go.

Decalling into a puddle of Kleer is as old as the hills but my only concern is that varnishing tends to change the colour. Varnishing matt finishes tends to darken, with gloss it tends to lighten but notice the word tends, again the effect is variable. In the military modelling world Xtracolour comes as a gloss paint so you only have put a topcoat on if needed after decalling. Gunze's Mr Color is semi-gloss for many of their military shades and they don't require any gloss coat. These have been around for some time and I'm still wondering why railway paint companies haven't followed their lead.

Just my 5p's worth.

Stu

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by lapford34102
Afterthought!!

[9C85]

A lifetime's supply of the product formerly known as Klear.

 

[9C85]

Having got 'all the Klear', I wanted to 'test on an inconspicuous area first'. I remembered that I hadn't yet fitted the roof to the laserglazed GUV, so the inside of that was an ideal choice. 

As per usual, my massive hands and dodgy eyesight made an absolute abomination of the first attempt.  The transfer disintegrated before it left the backing sheet.

The second one was better in that I managed to place it, but following previous practice I tried to dry the moisture with a cotton bud, which acted like a transfer magnet and lifted it straight off.

For the third attempt, I used slightly less Klear (I still don't know how much is enough or too much  - any suggestions?).

So, seemingly third time lucky, I managed to fix and align the transfer and it dried to an acceptable  (for me) finish. 

Photo below..

 

Photo of the 'silvered' effort added for comparison...

 

So now the question is how to remove ' silvered ' transfers... more water? Cocktail stick? T-Cut?

Edited September 21, 2020 by 9C85
10Mb photo limit workaround

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, 9C85 said:

.... following previous practice I tried to dry the moisture with a cotton bud, which acted like a transfer magnet and lifted it straight off.

 

Don't touch the wet Klear / transfer until it is thoroughly dry - even a slight excess will disappear.

 

I think that you may find that there is guidance for the removal of the lacquer on the package - it was always on the pack of the original Klear. I seem to recall that it involved a solution of ammonia; (not a very attractive odour)!

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

[9C85]

14 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Don't touch the wet Klear / transfer until it is thoroughly dry - even a slight excess will disappear.

 

I think that you may find that there is guidance for the removal of the lacquer on the package - it was always on the pack of the original Klear. I seem to recall that it involved a solution of ammonia; (not a very attractive odour)!

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

Thanks. 

 

I meant how to remove the transfers I put on and attempted to  seal with Dullcote 

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, 9C85 said:

Thanks. 

 

I meant how to remove the transfers I put on and attempted to  seal with Dullcote 

 

A little frustrating - but I'd strip the body and start again.

 

John Isherwood.

[lapford34102]

Try lifting it with masking tape, might take a couple of goes to get it all off.

Stu

[9C85]

12 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

Try lifting it with masking tape, might take a couple of goes to get it all off.

Stu

That's probably not a bad idea, considering that's how I managed to inadvertently remove the transfers I had put on a previous GUV when I masked it off to touch up the roof. 

[9C85]

On 21/09/2020 at 22:30, lapford34102 said:

Try lifting it with masking tape, might take a couple of goes to get it all off.

Stu

 

Cut tape > fix tape > press tape > lift tape > gone.

 

Nice one, thanks. 

[9C85]

On 18/09/2020 at 20:27, cctransuk said:

 

Wet the transfer by floating it in shallow water as usual - when ready, slide it off into wet Klear which has been applied IMMEDIATELY beforehand; you will have sufficient time to adjust the position - but don't hang about!

 

John Isherwood.

 

So, assuming I manage to fit the transfers with Klear, I won't then need to give a light spray of Dullcote? I will be weathering the coaches after applying transfers. 

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, 9C85 said:

 

So, assuming I manage to fit the transfers with Klear, I won't then need to give a light spray of Dullcote? I will be weathering the coaches after applying transfers. 

 

Yes - use a light coat of Dullcote if you want anything less than a gloss finish.

 

John Isherwood.