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45xx kits - MM, Springside, any others?


Guest WM183
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Guest WM183

Hi folks.

I'd like to add a 45xx to my stable of locomotives (along with an Ivatt Class 2 mogul... next perhaps) and have been looking at a couple of kits. Has anyone got any experience with either the Malcolm Mitchell kit, or the Springside kit? The springside kit is more than 100 pounds more, but a good kit would be worth it if it produces a better result and all. Are there any other options? I know there is an RtR 45xx planned, but I'd like to try and build a couple of my own if i can.

Pondering prairies,

Amanda

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I have both. The springside is ancient white metal. With care - filing down edges etc, upgrading some detail parts - can be made into a decent model but not in the same league as a Mitchell. I picked up a professionally made Mitchell for a knockdown price last year and it's a very good model - will build my own and sell this on eventually.

 

Phoenix precision sell the original churchward models one which is the Mitchell etches. I didnt think the MM1 (ex JLTRT) updated Mitchell was still available? I think there were other more basic brass kits around at one point.

 

Edit - I'd forgotten Warren Shephard although personally I'd still get the Mitchell - a couple of links below 

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/galmitchell1.html

 

http://www.swindonworks.co.uk/uploads/1/3/5/4/13542829/9124411_orig.jpg

Edited by Hal Nail
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Guest WM183

I didn't know about the Warren Shephard one! So it seems the better MM isn't available anymore and the Springside kit is not for me. A 4575 is also just fine, and I think more of them were painted green with the early BR logo than were the 4500s? 

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26 minutes ago, WM183 said:

I didn't know about the Warren Shephard one! So it seems the better MM isn't available anymore and the Springside kit is not for me. A 4575 is also just fine, and I think more of them were painted green with the early BR logo than were the 4500s? 

I'm not sure what the differences were between Mitchells but there was a significant price difference, so you could always upgrade any castings you wanted to improve. The later one may have had a resin boiler which the original won't but the boiler is all short pieces. 

 

Rail online has photos of many of the class. I'm not sure about green early logo other than ruling out a couple of St Blazey locos off my list! It wasnt around long anyway so was rarer generally and of course locos didnt necessarily get photo'd even if they wore it. Btw some of the older 45xx were withdrawn very early and a good number of 4575s stayed in black. I have allocations of both in mid 50s and withdrawal dates if that's of any use later.

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The MM kit is still available and nothing will beat it for detail and accuracy. The MM kit is available in its earlier straight tank form from the Churchward Models range now sold by Pheonix precision paints. 

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10 minutes ago, markjj said:

The MM kit is still available and nothing will beat it for detail and accuracy. The MM kit is available in its earlier straight tank form from the Churchward Models range now sold by Pheonix precision paints. 

Are the etches exactly the same? I've always wondered how two companies ended up selling them!

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The chassis differs slightly but as far as I'm aware the body is the same as it always was. 

Pheonix might send you some info if you contact them.

Some suppliers will email a copy of the instructions to see what's in the kit etc.

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3 hours ago, WM183 said:

 A 4575 is also just fine, and I think more of them were painted green with the early BR logo than were the 4500s? 

Some classes which had hitherto been painted black, such as the 45xx/4575's, started to be repainted in lined green in 1956/7 just as the new crest came in. It would therefore be unusual, but not impossible, to have the combination of green/old crest as stocks of the old crest were used up. A couple of moguls were so turned out.  Definitely a case for referring to photographs. 

If you are competent with a soldering iron any of the etched brass 45xx kits will give a more satisfying model than the Springside kit.  It was O.K. in its day but very heavy for the Mashima 1833 motor supplied.  For a modeller who can't/won't solder then a glue together kit at least gives an alternative to RTR but that's about it IMO.

Best of luck with your project.

Ray.

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1 hour ago, Marshall5 said:

It would therefore be unusual, but not impossible, to have the combination of green/old crest as stocks of the old crest were used up.

It's very hard to tell the difference between dirty black and lined green early crest in black and white photos which doesnt help!

 

5519 definitely has lining and a large old logo in May 1959 in More GWR Steam in Cornwall (Bradford and Barton), so they definitely existed.

 

I've found a straight tank example as well - 4570 in 1958. So you can have either.

 

In Steam Colour Portfolio western vol 1 (pirt) 4569 appears to be in unlined green, early Crest in 1957 (colour photo). Another rare variation.

Edited by Hal Nail
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I once built a MM 44xx in 4 mm scale.

 

Call me lazy, but I'm waiting for Dapol's 45xx to hit the shelves. (Since it's basically the ex Lionheart model, I suspect they will also release a 4575 sometime in the future).

Edited by Happy Hippo
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1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I once built a MM 44xx in 4 mm scale.

 

Call me lazy, but I'm waiting for Dapol's 45xx to hit the shelves. (Since it's basically the ex Lionheart model, I suspect they will also release a 4575 sometime in the future).

I don't think it's lazy at all. I just like building kits. Not everyone does. I admit being tempted to just get an rtr one, as if the Prairie is as nice as the pannier model, it will be hard to beat.

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2 hours ago, brossard said:

Interesting to read this.  I think as you get older the argument in favour of RTR gets stronger.

 

John

To be honest John the line between RTR and kit buying/building is getting shorter.

But RTR hasn't quite got it yet but it's very close now.

RTR still lacks some of the finer detail of decent kits but it's getting better all the time.

I guess it's something they have to let slip to keep the costs down to make selling them at a price people will pay for them viable. 

Most RTR looks pretty damn good from normal viewing distance now it's only if you look close and in detail you notice things.

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Does the Mm come with all the castings and bits like the Shephard kit does? My choice seems to be between these two,  and as they're the same price, I guess it just comes down to which makes a better model? 

 

Amanda

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Previous thread on this (above) and the Mitchell body etches below (actually a 4mm but its the same) - nickel silver with rivets etched in. Mix of brass and white metal castings are included according to the website but worth checking with them.

 

bodyfret.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hal Nail
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1 hour ago, markjj said:

To be honest John the line between RTR and kit buying/building is getting shorter.

But RTR hasn't quite got it yet but it's very close now.

RTR still lacks some of the finer detail of decent kits but it's getting better all the time.

I guess it's something they have to let slip to keep the costs down to make selling them at a price people will pay for them viable. 

Most RTR looks pretty damn good from normal viewing distance now it's only if you look close and in detail you notice things.

 

I agree.  Price point vis a vis RTR and kit is very close.  Both kit and RTR manufacturers have to draw a line balancing cost to manufacture vs detail.  Either way, I always add details, usually to the underframe and brake gear.  I like to think that RTR gets you 80% there.

 

John

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21 minutes ago, WM183 said:

Rivets etched in might clinch it! I dont like the idea of pressing rivet detail on my 1St loco

 

 

A lot of etched brass kits have half etched rivets that the builder has to push out.  It's not that big a deal.  I use a scriber and light hammer.  Making rivets from scratch is another matter and I wouldn't want to do that.

 

John

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9 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I once built a MM 44xx in 4 mm scale.

 

Call me lazy, but I'm waiting for Dapol's 45xx to hit the shelves. (Since it's basically the ex Lionheart model, I suspect they will also release a 4575 sometime in the future).

Something may have changed that I'm not aware of but the intention was that the new Dapol version would have a die-cast body rather than the etched brass of the Lionheart original. IIRC this was done to make it more affordable but the final finish should be up to the same high standard as the 64xx/74xx.

Ray.

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1 hour ago, brossard said:

 

A lot of etched brass kits have half etched rivets that the builder has to push out.  It's not that big a deal.  I use a scriber and light hammer.  Making rivets from scratch is another matter and I wouldn't want to do that.

 

John

Ah. It seems the Shephard kit doesn't have the half etched dots, and the Mitchell one does. That's probably my choice made.

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On 07/06/2020 at 22:15, WM183 said:

Hi folks.

I'd like to add a 45xx to my stable of locomotives (along with an Ivatt Class 2 mogul... next perhaps) and have been looking at a couple of kits. Has anyone got any experience with either the Malcolm Mitchell kit, or the Springside kit? The springside kit is more than 100 pounds more, but a good kit would be worth it if it produces a better result and all. Are there any other options? I know there is an RtR 45xx planned, but I'd like to try and build a couple of my own if i can.

Pondering prairies,

Amanda

 

Hi Amanda,

 

This may  be of help as I have made the Springside 45XX as my first 7mm kit.......

 

1232865654_cameracatchup158.JPG.eeb74bc0ddacf47b892aeea98002b8a9.JPG

 

 

 

Nice kit, although mine had rather `tired`  body tank side castings which needed a lot of cleaning up.  It`s a very heavy kit and the Buhler motor supplied won`t last forever. The valve gear and slide bars are also whitemetal and therefore very vulnerable.

 

At the moment I`m making Warren Shepards version but it is not for an absolute kit build beginner

 

 

What clinched it for me was this................

 

Warren`s kit backend has castings to help achieve an accurate shape......................

 

DSC05654.JPG.22f29c065fdf87586638c9823d85cea3.JPG

 

 

The Mitchell kit as far as I can deduce is a  blown-up7mm  version of it`s 4mm version and does not scale up well with just having filed corners.....

 

( this is from Heather Kay`s excellent Mitchell build from Western Thunder  forum to illustrate what I mean  ---hope she does`nt mind)

 

440F1394-C7ED-462A-A741-7D8EA3BCB516.jpeg.1d215c15d0eeb50924cca39a7ed3a760.jpeg

 

To me not acceptable for a 7mm kit ....................................

 

You might consider looking at the MM1 Models 44XX kit which will be much easier to construct........

 

regards

Edited by ROSSPOP
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28 minutes ago, ROSSPOP said:

 

Hi Amanda,

 

This may  be of help as I have made the Springside 45XX as my first 7mm kit.......

 

1232865654_cameracatchup158.JPG.eeb74bc0ddacf47b892aeea98002b8a9.JPG

 

 

 

Nice kit, although mine had rather `tired`  body tank side castings which needed a lot of cleaning up.  It`s a very heavy kit and the Buhler motor supplied won`t last forever. The valve gear and slide bars are also whitemetal and therefore very vulnerable.

 

At the moment I`m making Warren Shepards version but it is not for an absolute kit build beginner

 

 

What clinched it for me was this................

 

Warren`s kit backend has castings to help achieve an accurate shape......................

 

DSC05654.JPG.22f29c065fdf87586638c9823d85cea3.JPG

 

 

The Mitchell kit as far as I can deduce is a  blown-up7mm  version of it`s 4mm version and does not scale up well with just having filed corners.....

 

( this is from Heather Kay`s excellent Mitchell build from Western Thunder  forum to illustrate what I mean  ---hope she does`nt mind)

 

440F1394-C7ED-462A-A741-7D8EA3BCB516.jpeg.1d215c15d0eeb50924cca39a7ed3a760.jpeg

 

To me not acceptable for a 7mm kit ....................................

 

You might consider looking at the MM1 Models 44XX kit which will be much easier to construct........

 

regards

 

That is a stunning build. 

Can I ask what sort of rivet press you use as they are pretty fine and very even?

 

Edit: for its age the Springside did make up into a very nice model if done well. Mine has been stalled for 25 years over the cab rear windows!

Edited by Hal Nail
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