Assemble in garage, then move into house - how?

[ITG]

As I am now getting close to starting my second layout, I’m keen to avoid the mistakes (learning opportunities) I made on the first one (which only had an 18 month life, because I always saw it as such a learning experience).

One fundamental change this time round is changing the baseboard material and construction method, from poorly framed home made sundeala to professional modular ply framed boards. This means I can assemble, lay and wire track in sections in the garage, before taking each into the railway room in the house. Last time I tried to do so much upside down soldering on my knees! Plus, ‘afterthought’ ideas (like infra red sensors to check hidden track occupancy) were a devil to install - this time I hope to be forewarned and better planned. Note that I have no intention of moving this layout once in situ, the modular approach is purely to use professional boards and to enable easier early stage layout building)

so, my questions are these:

How do I sequence the order of doing things? I can layout the entire set up (8 boards of manageable varying sizes, totalling 3.5m x 2m around central operating well) first in the garage, lay the track, wire it, take a board at a time into the house and reassemble .

How much do I do in the garage? Fix track down? 
Or is it better to take each assembled board indoors,  lay/wire track inside (I can still turn board upside down)?
But whichever option, there comes a point when (a) track across baseboard joins with have to be put in place & (b) electrical connections (DCC track bus etc) across joints need making. If two adjoining boards each have track fixed, how do I place that linking track piece? (Manoeuvring room for rail joiners etc)

Or is it best to cut exact length of linking track section and just drop it in, with no rail joiners? If so, recommendations as how to do that?

I’m hoping that the undoubted experience which oozes from this forum will jump in and offer ideas and suggestions, as it has on other specifics I’ve asked. Thanks in advance.

[Mick Bonwick]

My approach to this has, in the past, been to lay track and wire up a pair of boards together. Start by making sure the pair of bards are accurately aligned. Test the alignment by separating and joining them several times. Once you're happy lay the track across the joins and fix it down. Where the track crosses the join fix it down by soldering the rails to screws set in the frame, or PCB sections attached at the board edge. Once the levels and alignment are perfect you can cut the rails at the join with a razor saw. Take one board into the house and you can then start on the remaining board and its other partner in the garage.

 

I have done this twice, the second time more successfully than the first. The difference between my situation and yours is that the garage where they were built was a good few miles from the house where they were installed.

 

It worked for me, but you may be able to alter and adapt the process for your own needs. Or disregard it altogether!

 

[SM42]

In essence you are talking about building a portable layout just like any exhibition going layout but without the same audience.

 

Essentially I  would build in the garage up to and including track, wiring and testing.

 

At the joints cut the track and fix securely to baseboard ends. use locating dowels or other system of choice to accurately locate boards when reassenmbled so everything lines up and  finally cross wiring over joints using plug and sockets of choice. This can be simple choc block to fancy multi pin connectors.

 

No need for rail joiners at the joints. the cross board connector will do the job.

 

Another benefit is that it can be moved again in the future if need be.

 

Andy

Edited June 8, 2020 by SM42
to add a bit more

[boxbrownie]

Similar situation but not quite   I decided to get a layout actually finished this time so I planned smaller and planned carefully, once I had my layout planned I had the boards made professionally made (Model Rail Baseboards) using measurements that avoided all the points, this required a slight jiggling of the plan In development and the baseboard sections not each being exactly the same size, not an issue.

 

I did it this way as I know we will be moving again in a few years and I definitely wanted this layout to be coming with us, so once it is all laid and track secure each track piece which needs cutting across the joins will be secured by screws (it is Trix integral ballasted C-Track) and decent glue so there will be NO movement at all at the track joins.

 

I have also planned for electrical continuity across joins during laying the track even though it’s not needed yet, by just using small plugs and sockets under the board, these were done so I would not have to crawl around doing it later as I basically cannot crawl around on all fours any more.

 

So far it has all gone to plan, and that is my long winded diatribe, planning is the key.

 

Good luck 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

4 hours ago, ITG said:

...Note that I have no intention of moving this layout once in situ...

 is it better to take each assembled board indoors,  lay/wire track inside (I can still turn board upside down)...

Yes.

 

Quite simply, don't make extra work for yourself. Since you have decided it's a permanent layout, build it as one, only finally fixing the assembled boards together in the layout room once all the underside work is completed, while the boards can be inverted.

 

This is work enough as the best method is to assemble  - level and aligned - all the boards in the layout room in their final configuration to map onto it the track plan, and then disassemble to do the underside work, and then reassemble for the remaining track laying:

 

As long as you have settled on a track plan and drawn it out accurately on the board tops, no track other than any below board motorised points need be laid until the wiring is complete. I was astounded when first shown how easy it was to arrange below board point motors, when the section they were laid on could be accessed from either side at will, and fully tested for reliable functioning. So obvious once seen, no more awkward working under a rain of solder.

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, SM42 said:

In essence you are talking about building a portable layout just like any exhibition going layout but without the same audience.

 

Essentially I  would build in the garage up to and including track, wiring and testing.

 

At the joints cut the track and fix securely to baseboard ends. use locating dowels or other system of choice to accurately locate boards when reassembled so everything lines up and  finally cross wiring over joints using plug and sockets of choice. This can be simple choc block to fancy multi pin connectors.

 

No need for rail joiners at the joints. the cross board connector will do the job.

 

Another benefit is that it can be moved again in the future if need be.

 

Andy

 

Exactly what I did with mine.

I have no intention of exhibiting it, but I have built it exactly like an exhibition layout so if I move, it can be broken up & re-assembled.

There are other benefits I did not really think about, but they made me glad to build the layout in sections.

 

It allows me to flip up a board if I need to do any work underneath. I laid the track first then lifted each board to wire the track, then wired the points later. I have decided to change the way I control the points, so this will be another 'boards up' job too. I hope the point motors will be reliable, but if not, I am able to get at them by lifting the required board.

I have worked under a layout before & it is extremely uncomfortable. Working underneath also means working in low light.

I have a big TV on 1 wall. I had to lift the end boards to get it in place. I also want to put another light on 1 wall. I'll have to move boards out of the way for this too.

I have got trains, tools, computers & parts of other layouts stored underneath. I couldn't work on the boards from below if I wanted to.

[ITG]

Thanks all, some consistency and some variety in responses. All to consider.
 

I hadn’t thought about the soldered screw under track to achieve portability and reconnection at baseboard ends. I was already preparing to do same for a removable girder bridge section which crosses the operating well, carrying a reverse loop track. I figured that whilst building and maintaining the layout, it would be helpful to have that bridge (approx 700 mm long) removable, to allow easier access, but obviously during normal operating, it would be in situ.

 

TBH, I’m not looking forward to doing it just for that bridge at both ends,  but if I need to do so at each baseboard junction, I should be good at it in the end! Any tips for this screw and solder approach?

[Mick Bonwick]

One thing you're not likely to get on RMweb is consistency! Many modellers have tried many approaches to many problems and found solutions that work for them. That doesn't necessarily mean that those solutions will work for other modellers.

 

I have mentioned the screw and solder approach to rails across baseboard joins here:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/151137-easton-isle-of-portland/&do=findComment&comment=3979571

 

To explain a bit further, the track is aligned and laid across the already perfected baseboard join without any form of fixing, and the places where the rails cross the join are marked on the board surface. The brass screws are then inserted far enough away from the board edge to not split the wood when they are screwed down. Pilot holes are drilled so that the positioning can be checked before drilling correct sized holes for the screws.

 

 

Screws are inserted and screwed down to almost the height of the underneath of the rail. The track is then positioned again and the screw are incrementally screwed down until the top surface of the screw is fractionally below the rail under-surface.

 

 

The rail is then cleaned and tinned where the screw will touch it and the screw heads are similarly cleaned and tinned. The screw head will act as a massive heatsink, so I use a 100w soldering iron to complete this bit. If your iron is less meaty then it will take longer for the solder to take on the screw head. The rail can now be accurately positioned and the two tinned surfaces joined quite easily just by touching the join with a 25w iron.

 

 

 

Once everything is level and aligned the rail can be cut with a razor saw. If you really want to be neat and tidy the sides of the brass screws can be filed away to the same width as the rail, but that's not something I did on my second build. Too fiddly! I relied on paint and ballast to hide the screw heads the second time.

 

[DCB]

Good advice above

For a layout and one built in sections for permanent installation using ready to lay track I prefer to use fishplates at the rail joints on visible sections and continue the scenery and ballast over the joint. When you move you can just slice through the scenery and slide the fishplates off by moving the boards sideways. However don't take any wiring over the joints without detachable connectors.   Now I built a module for a fiddle yard and assembled it under a layout where I couldn't see what I was doing and should really have used screws or PCB but I ended up using set track  so the fishplates were fixed in place.  Never again.

The other difference is the size of the boards.  You can with difficulty move a 6ft X 4ft board around a house while you wouldn't really want to try to get one in a small family Hatchback, 4 X 2 is much more manageable, and many small hatchbacks will just take 4ft sideways.    However 6X2 and 4 X 4 triangular corner pieces make a lot of sense for permanent locations as they minimise joints in the framing and the joints are where the distortion  creeps in. After 3 years DIY store timber can look like a series of dogs hind legs and your super trick ply ones could go the same way unless you are super careful with their supports.  4ft span is too much for reliable baseboards in my experience.   Then again my last baseboard had/ has the flat surface on the bottom with individual track bases supported above it.   might even finish it one day but its a handy test track even unfinished.

[ISW]

ITG,

 

I too am building each of my baseboards in the garage before taking them up to the bedroom to be installed on the support frame. In my case:

1. The support frame was built in the garage and then finally installed in the bedroom.
2. Each baseboard was built in the garage and transported to the bedroom where it simply rests on the support frame. Gravity does the rest, along with all the other baseboards when joined together.
3. The baseboards are joined with 2x M8 bolts into tee-nuts. On the bolt-head side, the baseboard hole is sleeved with aluminium tube. There is no 'play' in the tube or tee-nut, so alignment is nicely fixed. It's a cheap method as well.
4. Track is installed in the bedroom.
5. The track is cut at the baseboard joints, and aligned using the brass screw method as mentioned by an earlier poster.
6. The baseboards then are turned over, and all the electrics and turnout operating servos installed.
7. Electrical connection between boards is done by jumper cables using PCB screw plugs and sockets. As I have 2 power buses that's a 4-way plug/socket. The turnout operation is a 5-way plug/socket for power (2 wires) and the network (3-wires). I'm using MegaPoints controllers.
8. Any baseboard can be removed by simply unplugging the jumpers and removing the 2 M8 bolts.

You can see detail pictures of all of the above on my layout page (link in footer below).

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by ISW
Item 5 added (and renumbered).

[ITG]

Once again thanks to all.
Mick B - a picture tells a thousand words, so I make your total 3000! Thanks.
ISW - just scanned your layout page. What planning! Not sure I have the patience or skill to quite go that far.

 

I’m going to have to review my intended track plan, as whilst I took care that below-board point motors did not align with baseboard joints, the same cannot be said of the point track form itself. Because I was seeing the layout/board as ‘permanent’, I wasn’t too concerned about this, but if I opt to assemble each board, and screw/solder track ends as suggested by some, that’s going to cause a problem where a point (or moving parts of) overlays a board joint.

 

Plus some plain tracks will undoubtedly cross board joints at odd angles, which I guess makes the screw/cut/solder approach trickier?

 

Its clearly unlikely to be feasible to actually change the track plan to make every point ‘miss’ board joints, as it would alter the whole character of the track plan, and make it look very odd. So maybe a mix and match approach, where some boards are assembled in pairs as a unit. Biggest board is 1200x600 and some are smaller (eg 1050x300) so I have to hope that is going to be practical.

[ISW]

17 minutes ago, ITG said:

*snip*

 

I’m going to have to review my intended track plan, as whilst I took care that below-board point motors did not align with baseboard joints, the same cannot be said of the point track form itself. Because I was seeing the layout/board as ‘permanent’, I wasn’t too concerned about this, but if I opt to assemble each board, and screw/solder track ends as suggested by some, that’s going to cause a problem where a point (or moving parts of) overlays a board joint.

 

*snip

ITG,

 

In the case of turnouts, the only parts that must remain 'whole' and uncut are the switches and the crossing (frog / vee) portions. The intermediate rails 'can' be cut [1] and, of course, you can have a crossover half on one board with the other half on the adjacent board (I've done that).

 

[1] - it does make frog polarity switching more difficult though

 

[ITG]

17 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Yes.

 

Quite simply, don't make extra work for yourself. Since you have decided it's a permanent layout, build it as one, only finally fixing the assembled boards together in the layout room once all the underside work is completed, while the boards can be inverted.

 

This is work enough as the best method is to assemble  - level and aligned - all the boards in the layout room in their final configuration to map onto it the track plan, and then disassemble to do the underside work, and then reassemble for the remaining track laying:

 

As long as you have settled on a track plan and drawn it out accurately on the board tops, no track other than any below board motorised points need be laid until the wiring is complete. I was astounded when first shown how easy it was to arrange below board point motors, when the section they were laid on could be accessed from either side at will, and fully tested for reliable functioning. So obvious once seen, no more awkward working under a rain of solder.

 

 

34B-D

Could you clarify an odd point (no pun intended!) please?

 

Am I right in thinking that wiring/fixing under board motors can be done initially, with point trackwork loosely in position (so that there’s some flexibility/movability when subsequently aligning/fixing adjoining trackwork)? 
 

But if plain tracks are not really fixed until board is then right way up, how/when are droppers wired in, without flipping board again?

thanks

Ian

[ITG]

For those advocating the screw/solder option, can I ask - are all yellow coloured screws made of brass? I inherited from my late DIY fanatic father every conceivable size, shape and purpose of screw in quantity. So I’m pretty sure I’ll have suitable ones, but he kept them in proper containers which he knew and recognised, but were not always labelled!

[Il Grifone]

1 hour ago, ITG said:

For those advocating the screw/solder option, can I ask - are all yellow coloured screws made of brass? I inherited from my late DIY fanatic father every conceivable size, shape and purpose of screw in quantity. So I’m pretty sure I’ll have suitable ones, but he kept them in proper containers which he knew and recognised, but were not always labelled!

 

No, but non-brass ones are usually a mottled colour (brass finish). A magnet is a simple test and clears any interlopers from a mix.

 

Always treat a layout as transportable. You never know when it may have to be moved. Many years ago, one famous layout had to be destroyed  (a house move IIRC) because of track laid over board joints etc.

At worst a short length laid over a joint can be removed and replaced if a move is necessary.

 

As to the dropper question; make the dropper hole large enough to allow track adjustment and then cover it with ballast once everything is working properly.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

9 hours ago, ITG said:

...Am I right in thinking that wiring/fixing under board motors can be done initially, with point trackwork loosely in position (so that there’s some flexibility/movability when subsequently aligning/fixing adjoining trackwork)? 
 

But if plain tracks are not really fixed until board is then right way up, how/when are droppers wired in, without flipping board again?

I'd have the points firmly fixed when the motors are installed, that's the path to reliability: which is why an accurate track plan needs to be drawn on the board. (I put curves into RTR points and fixing these down is mandatory before motorising.) Any small adjustments to alignment are than made in the flexitrack; as already described the holes for the droppers can be made to allow adjustment.

 

Or you can be more radical and keep the DCC power wiring on the board top. Easy to conceal with only two bus wires rather than the DC scenario of a large bundle of sectioning wires, and fine enamelled wire 'droppers' - perhaps they are 'surfacers' as they stay in the board surface? - already attached to the mid point of lengths of flexi before they are laid. It took a while for the penny to drop for me that the huge reduction in track power wiring with DCC meant this now really didn't need to go under the board top, in the manner long approved by tradition.

[ITG]

35 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I'd have the points firmly fixed when the motors are installed, that's the path to reliability: which is why an accurate track plan needs to be drawn on the board. (I put curves into RTR points and fixing these down is mandatory before motorising.) Any small adjustments to alignment are than made in the flexitrack; as already described the holes for the droppers can be made to allow adjustment.

 

Or you can be more radical and keep the DCC power wiring on the board top. Easy to conceal with only two bus wires rather than the DC scenario of a large bundle of sectioning wires, and fine enamelled wire 'droppers' - perhaps they are 'surfacers' as they stay in the board surface? - already attached to the mid point of lengths of flexi before they are laid. It took a while for the penny to drop for me that the huge reduction in track power wiring with DCC meant this now really didn't need to go under the board top, in the manner long approved by tradition.

Mmm, that’s an interesting idea re bus wire and droppers being above board, particularly as my main station/yard/MPD is on a separate pair of boards along one wall, above lower boards. So, the more ‘complex’ (ie more tracks) wiring for those upper boards can still be under board if need be.  12v DC wiring for electronic servo uncouplers would also then be below board.

The other boards I could do the (largely) DCC above board. I can see that could make life easier.

 

lots to think about.

thanks

 

 in the 

[AyJay]

There is one fundamental issue that everyone seems to have forgotten.

It is more important than any technical consideration, indeed its relevance and ability to scupper any plans must not be understated.

 

Before you do anything that involves coming into the home.....

Get the approval from 'The Boss' first!

[wasabi]

Working in N, I try to use the Kato Expansion Track over board joints when possible.  Basically a section of track can be slid to and fro so it can be freed and the boards then separated.  The idea came from a Japanese layout that was featured in Continental Modeller years ago, but Train Trax mention the part on their website - other UK dealers are available.  I don't know if the same sort of product is made in HO.  You do need to cut a couple of lugs off to allow the track to slide freely, since it is really intended by the makers to be locked in position once installed.

 

I would certainly encourage making baseboards transportable - a couple of mine have moved from a flat to the spare bedroom of my house, and then down to a purpose built shed in the garden.  Others have joined on the way.

 

IPW