Minories are made of this

[RJS1977]

20 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Not sure I follow that, Lez. Surely the depth of each board will be much greater for a viaduct than a cutting, making the overall folded layout a lot more bulky?

 

If the viaduct is less than half the baseboard width, then a simpler method would be to separate the baseboards completely, flip the second baseboard around its long axis and mount it on top of the first one, so that the viaducts are side by side. 

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Fold down hinges are arranged something like this.

This arrangement allows you to have any separation you want dependent on the height of the hinge plate.

I hope this sketch makes it clear.

Regards Lez. 

Yes, I see what you mean now. Thanks.

 

It would still end up being very bulky when folded though, which to me defeats the purpose of a compact folding layout.

[Harlequin]

Still on the electricals, I have replaced the 7805 with one of the mini LM2596 "Buck Converters" that @St Enodoc recommended. Thanks John!

 

I had to buy a bag of 6 for ~£12 so you can see that they are cheap commodity items. I'm sure the other 5 will come in useful one day.

 

While I had the socket panel out of the layout I installed an HDMI pass-through socket and wired up a dual USB socket so that I can now plug and unplug keyboard, monitor and mouse without having to fold up the layout or get underneath some other way. This makes it a more plugin-and-play unit.

 

Here's the panel back in the layout with the new voltage converter circuit in the middle. You can just see a heat transfer pad underneath the converter to help dissipate heat into the panel. It's all working fine and, so far, it runs very cool.

To the right of the converter is the new HDMI socket and the USB sockets are at the far end:

 

I just need to tidy up the cables and that should be the electrics done. (I'm not going to think about occupancy detection or working signals yet.)

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Harlequin

[Pacific231G]

On 03/08/2021 at 07:48, Haddocksrock said:

Not sure if I am imagining it but I am sure I once saw in one of the magazines or possibly in one of his books an extended plan of Minories in modules as you described above? Each further section had two main tracks in the same location so the modules could be 'mixed and matched'.

You're not imagining it. It was discussed at some length, with plans, in the General Theory of Minories topic, including the MPD pointwork. Frustratingly, though I have a photocopy of CJF's description and plans for it (it's about half a page in an article- which included a number of other plans) the page doesn't identify the magazine. It was Feb 1981 so I think it was in Model Railways. 

The idea was that the area modelled was all on viaducts and you'd simple build those (either including the arches and their businesses, or simply just to the parapets but have no other scenery. In this scheme, Minories itself was the pure passenger version but grown to 10ft with all the pointwork on one tapered four foot board and the platforms on two rectangular three foot board. The other sections included an MPD "Cheapside Depot" (7ft long) alongside the main line, "Blackfriars junction" (about 4ft long) for a single track goods branch, "Leadenhall Yard" a compact but fully featured goods yard (about 6ft 6ins long ) and a couple of connecting curved pieces one double track one single on a 2ft radius curve. The sections could be put together in a number of permutations and all of them were modelled  as if on viaducts. If you know the tangle of railways on viaducts on the south bank of the Thames (which CJF of course did) particularly in the Southwark area between Waterloo East,  Liverpool Cannon Street and London Bridge, you'll get the idea and these lines did have both a loco depot and at least one goods yard at high level.  

On 03/08/2021 at 08:18, Simon Moore said:

It's really nice to see someone doing something pre grouping & on a classic layout trackplan. I have always fancied doing minories myself at some point probably west riding based like everything I do usually is. 

I am suprised no one's done something like this with all the pre grouping railways now on offer to us from Hornby & Bachmann. I have always though the mix of stocks at the station section of York museum looks superb & would in model form. 

 

I am enjoying this thread I look forward to more.

 

Simon

Hi Simon

They have!

Casterbridge North was (or possibly is) an almost pure Minories in EM three metres long (including a double track sector plate feeding storage sidings behind the station) based on LSWR practice. The layout was a tri-fold and was built by David Curtis, one of the founders  of the Falmouth Society of Model Railways.  I had  an interesting conversation with David about Casterbridge in late 2018 but sadly, he died last year. There are a couple of picutres and an article here https://fsrm.weebly.com/casterbridge-north.html

 

Not exactly pre-grouping but with mainly ex LNWR stock is Gavin Thrum's Great Moor Street on three 1065mm (3ft6ins) which was Plan of the Month (really Railway of the Month  no 2) in the April 2015 Railway Modeller. Much more about it on Gavin's blog

https://thrumlington.blogspot.com/2015/06/great-moor-street-minories.html

 

Not for me to say but are we perhaps rather hijacking Harlequin's topic about HIS version of Minories with a certain amount of repetition of the Theory of General Minories topic  (surely that should be the General Theory of Minories)

I shall therefore refrain from my usual comparison wih Paris Vincennes (Bastille) 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Pacific231G
correction of Liverpool St. (brain fade!) It was London Bridge

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Still on the electricals, I have replaced the 7805 with one of the mini LM2596 "Buck Converters" that @St Enodoc recommended. Thanks John!

 

I had to buy a bag of 6 for ~£12 so you can see that they are cheap commodity items. I'm sure the other 5 will come in useful one day.

 

While I had the socket panel out of the layout I installed an HDMI pass-through socket and wired up a dual USB socket so that I can now plug and unplug keyboard, monitor and mouse without having to fold up the layout or get underneath some other way. This makes it a more plugin-and-play unit.

 

Here's the panel back in the layout with the new voltage converter circuit in the middle. You can just see a heat transfer pad underneath the converter to help dissipate heat into the panel. It's all working fine and, so far, it runs very cool.

To the right of the converter is the new HDMI socket and the USB sockets are at the far end:

 

I just need to tidy up the cables and that should be the electrics done. (I'm not going to think about occupancy detection or working signals yet.)

 

Looks good, Phil. I haven't used a heat transfer pad but I did, as you have, fit a small heat sink as recommended by the supplier (or did yours come already fitted?). No problems so far on my signals application, which is set to 1.6V with a theoretical maximum current draw of 2.75A if the highest possible number of signals in use at one time is reached.

[Harlequin]

I started thinking about the platforms and decided to remove the cork so that they could be fixed more solidly.

 

At times I wondered why I'd glued it all down so carefully and was then ripping it up again but it went fairly easily once I'd got into the swing of it... Ah well...

 

Now I'm working out how to actually build the platforms.

 

The top is 1mm card to get the correct thickness for the paving overhang. The face is 1mm card with a 2mm wide strip of card glued along the top edge to create simple corbelling.

 

The structural surface of the platform is 5mm foamboard supported every ~250mm by piers made of two layers of foamboard and 1 layer of 2mm card.

 

In combination, and assuming that glues will add a fraction more height, that build-up gives the correct height of the platform surface of 3ft (12mm) above rail level.

 

It's a lightweight construction for a portable layout and it should allow me to pin things to the platform surface so that they are fixed but can be moved.

 

I need to work out a way to hold the wall exactly upright and at the exact distance back from the platform edge to create a consistent overhang - and do all that following the curves at the ends of the platforms and under the curved edges of the platform ramps...

Edited August 7, 2021 by Harlequin

[Izzy]

Since you have to allow for overhang on inside curves and chords on outside ones - using your longest bogie vehicle as the measure - I now always tend to lay the wall first using a basic gauge tool - made up from card, with internal stretcher uprights of the same height. Then infill between with the multi-layers of whatever is being used, and then finally lay the top surface. How you lay the latter much depends on whether you will be paving it with individual tiles, or like me, laying a thin covering over. How many joins is acceptable. Sometimes I use lining paper. The latter is very useful stuff coming as it does in a range of differing thickness. I use it most for drawing out layout plans full size on the 1200micron thickness. But also to generate templates for the platform tops if to be from a single sheet of card etc. I mostly used mountboard, but then I build my layout baseboards out of mountboard/foamcore anyway so always have A1 sheets of both around.

[Fishplate]

On 06/08/2021 at 01:34, Pacific231G said:

Southwark area between Waterloo E. and Liverpool St

 

I think that pesky (un)predictive text swapped "Cannon" for "Liverpool" . . . . . 

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, Harlequin said:

assuming that glues will add a fraction more height, that build-up gives the correct height of the platform surface of 3ft (12mm) above rail level.

I wouldn't worry if it's fractionally low but I would if it was too high.

[Pacific231G]

On 07/08/2021 at 20:18, Fishplate said:

 

I think that pesky (un)predictive text swapped "Cannon" for "Liverpool" . . . . . 

No the predictive text feature in my brain swapped Liverpool St. for London Bridge. It happened because at the time I'd been thinking about CJF's inspiration for Minories- though not the actual arrangement of points- coming  while he was watching turnover workings of (electric) locomotive hauled trains at Liverpool Street's Met. platforms)  

The modular version of Minories with a separate MPD and goods depot was very neatly redrawn by Bluebottle in 2013 and publsihed here

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78492-minories-holborn-viaduct/page/3/

That was followed by a discussion of whether CJF had drawn "Cheapside Depot (MPD)"  back to front (we concluded that he had) as it had an unecessary number of facing points. 

"Cheapside Depot" was probably inspired by Cannon Stret Shed (actually on the other side of the river from Cannon St. station)  which was built on an annex to the viaduct traces of which still survive. http://www.kentrail.org.uk/cannon_street_mpd.htm

The goods depot may have been inspired by the SECR's "Grand Vitesse" goods depot though this was next to an even smaller high level loco depot (a sub shed of Bricklayers Arms) at Ewer St. that nevertheless handled main line passenger locos including, in later years, such locos as King Arthurs and Bulleid Pacifics

You may find the plans towards the bottom of this page interesting.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60091-theory-of-general-minories/page/55/

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Pacific231G

[Lacathedrale]

Hi Phil, I am so pleased you've got this layout on the go - it is somewhat bittersweet that we both had the same idea way-back-when, and you're striding forward with it with such competence and confidence and I'm still prevaricating. I can only applaud you, and hope that one day I can get my act together long enough to do something similar! Bravo!

Edited August 11, 2021 by Lacathedrale

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hi Phil, I am so pleased you've got this layout on the go - it is somewhat bittersweet that we both had the same idea way-back-when, and you're striding forward with it with such competence and confidence and I'm still prevaricating. I can only applaud you, and hope that one day I can get my act together long enough to do something similar! Bravo!

My thoughts exactly. It seems to me that some people manage to get on with their layouts and others "overthink" it and never really get going.

 

I am probably in the second category, so I applaud those who get stuck in and achieve something!

[JohnR]

Still hoping for someone to do a baseboard kit for this...

[Harlequin]

5 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hi Phil, I am so pleased you've got this layout on the go - it is somewhat bittersweet that we both had the same idea way-back-when, and you're striding forward with it with such competence and confidence and I'm still prevaricating. I can only applaud you, and hope that one day I can get my act together long enough to do something similar! Bravo!

Thanks William,

 

I don’t think I’d describe my progress as striding or confident! I don’t make half as much progress as I’d like to and the upcoming stages are the scenic elements where I’m worried that my modelling skills and artistic sense might fall short.

 

Of course it helps that I’m prepared to use RTR parts where possible. But maybe that also means the end result will lack the sort of finesse that I think you’re striving for…

 

We will find out the answers in due course!

[Lacathedrale]

How's the layout going, Phil @Harlequin ?