Question of Supplies

[RBTKraisee]

Not a question specifically aimed at Dapol - it's equally applicable to Bachmann/Graham Farish too, but I'm posting it here because the majority of the N-gauge products that I'm after are from Dapol and I'm just trying to understand how the market operates...

 

I've only recently been getting back into this hobby after a 25 year break, but I'm finding it *really* difficult to find new versions of almost all of the products that I want.

 

My list covers what I think must be fairly popular and thus "high demand" things, including locomotives like original A3 Flying Scotsman, A4 Mallard, Tornado, HST's, new-tooling Maroon Mk1 coaches - in fact all the accurate rakes of coaches.   But when I go hunting for these things, hardly any of these are currently available *new*.   You can find the odd one on ebay now and again, but you never quite know how it has been treated, so that isn't ideal.

 

I understand that the UK market for such products has its limits and production runs are deliberately sized to sell out all of the products - that's good business sense - and it might account for what I'm seeing.   But my core question is this:   Is this just a temporary situation caused by some of the recent current affairs impacting production runs in one way or another, or is this actually normal and everyone in across the hobby just gets used to it?

 

Ross.

Edited June 9, 2020 by RBTKraisee

[Kaput]

Sadly it seems to be fairly normal in N gauge. Models that feel like they should be the bread and butter things just don't seem to be getting reruns very often. In fairness though Dapol's catalogue suggests a new run of A3's to be announced soon and theres a new run of HST's due later this year (or early next year).

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, RBTKraisee said:

Not a question specifically aimed at Dapol - it's equally applicable to Bachmann/Graham Farish too, but I'm posting it here because the majority of the N-gauge products that I'm after are from Dapol and I'm just trying to understand how the market operates...

 

I've only recently been getting back into this hobby after a 25 year break, but I'm finding it *really* difficult to find new versions of almost all of the products that I want.

 

So, in that intervening 25 years the model railway hobby (regardless of scale) has changed dramatically.

 

It is no longer a case of 1 new item a year, and everything is available all the time (well, everything among the few items that are made).

 

In OO for the last couple of years there have been around 30 new items each year, and when you get that many new shiny objects a year we customers aren't interested in the stuff that has been sitting on the shelf for 2 months - so in general the manufacturers and stores don't order to have supplies for years anymore.

 

N is a bit different - smaller market means fewer new items on a yearly basis, but also has the problem that Bachmann's parent has undergone financial problems and restructuring that has created a large backlog of items over the last 4 years.

 

Similarly Dapol has undergone some changes, and is now also selling to the O market.

 

The combination of those 2 things has meant a slow down in the available of N stuff.

 

The good news is that there are some new options around - check out Revolution Trains (who primarily sell direct and built on a X orders X product made basis), and even some of the retailers do exclusive items - I think Hattons has an N steam loco in limbo.

 

1 hour ago, RBTKraisee said:

I understand that the UK market for such products has its limits and production runs are deliberately sized to sell out all of the products - that's good business sense - and it might account for what I'm seeing.   But my core question is this:   Is this just a temporary situation caused by some of the recent current affairs impacting production runs in one way or another, or is this actually normal and everyone in across the hobby just gets used to it?

 

Nothing to do with Covid - in general anything arriving today would have been ordered 9 to 12 months ago.

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, RBTKraisee said:

I've only recently been getting back into this hobby after a 25 year break,

 

Some further comments.

 

One, if something you want becomes available, if you can afford it you are best to get it - it can be years before another run of models gets made as it can take that long before there is sufficient demand to justify a new run.

 

But the market has also changed in other ways.

 

Or, welcome to the world of crowd funding.  This is where (with different variations depending on who is doing it) the company making a model first does what is known as taking expressions of interest, where you go to their website and say you are interested in buying the model.  This is done to see if there is sufficient interest in going through with the costly process of actually designing and tooling up a new model (in the $80,000 range).

 

If there is sufficient interest then some of these new, small companies take various approaches to making the model that can include the purchaser paying money up front to help fund the making of the model - and yes, this comes with risk that if something happens and no model gets made you are out your money (unless you can convince your credit card company...)

 

But is has worked, and has allowed several models to come to market.

 

Companies using variations of this in N are Revolution, Cavelex, and KR Models.

 

Don't know the status but Cavelex has indicated an intention to do the Class 91/Mk4s, KR Models is currently doing expressions of interest on the Shark brave van (I think), and will likely be testing to see if there is interested in a GWR King in the future.  Revolution currently is taking expressions of interest in the Class 89, the APT-E, and some other stuff I think.

 

In all those cases it is up to you to stay up to date and if you want the model to express interest, and if it proceeds make sure you get orders in before the deadline - because if they don't get enough interest/orders, the model doesn't proceed.

[truffy]

6 hours ago, mdvle said:

KR Models is currently doing expressions of interest on the Shark brave van (I think), and will likely be testing to see if there is interested in a GWR King in the future. 

KRM are also taking EOI in the GT3 and Fell, although those are very much less mainstream. 

[The Johnster]

Welcome back to the hobby, Ross, and to the world of limited production runs and waiting years for a repeat, crowd funding, and 'just in time' supply chains.  These are predicated on a production run of components exactly proportionate to the project, which are delivered to an assembly plant just as the last order is cleared into containers and dispactched.  The Chinese have proved very efficient with this production model, which saves the overhead of storage but depends on 100% reliable transportation.  It is the reason that spares are not as available for modern RTR models as they were back in the day; no spares are produced as backup for new models and the market must source from breaking down secondhand donors.

[D9020 Nimbus]

One essential difference, it seems to me, is that in the past (1950s–60s), the manufacturers sold large numbers of a small range of items to large numbers of people, whereas now they sell smaller numbers of a large range of items to a smaller number of people…

[RBTKraisee]

Great responses so far guys, thanks.   Please keep these comments and insights coming - I think a greater understanding of the industry actually helps everyone.

 

You've all helped to paint the picture fairly well and I'm beginning to understand the market and business dynamics.   Some interesting and careful balancing acts are clearly at work within the supply companies.   While I personally remain a tad frustrated being unable to buy what I want, I can still appreciate how difficult it is for those companies to negotiate this tightrope.

 

I'm guesing that the gradual contraction of the market place has had significant impacts, and the lack of younger modellers entering the hobby also poses potentially serious concerns for the future.   On that particular score I'm actually working on some plans that, if I'm right, could do a lot to turn the general trend around.

 

Ross.

 

PS - Particular thanks for the recommendations to check out Revolution, Cavalex and KMR.   Seems I missed those Pendolino's  but perhaps I can get in on a more detailed 91.   And I just picked up the last non-DCC Class 33 Eastleigh that Hattons had, to make sure I didn't miss it.   Cabbed that loco one time, from Portsmouth to Fareham when I was a kid!

Edited June 10, 2020 by RBTKraisee

[Mike at C&M]

One method of locating models that often seems to be forgotten is to do a Google search for the specific model you are looking for. There are lots of other shops than just the larger box shifters, and we sometimes have items on the shelf that many believe are no longer available anywhere.

 

Much of our mail order business through the lockdown has resulted from people doing such specific searches and finding we do still have stock a long time after release.

 

This may seem to be extremely basic, but is often overlooked

[Guest Half-full]

42 minutes ago, RBTKraisee said:

Great responses so far guys, thanks.   Please keep these comments and insights coming - I think a greater understanding of the industry actually helps everyone.

 

You've all helped to paint the picture fairly well and I'm beginning to understand the market and business dynamics.   Some interesting and careful balancing acts are clearly at work within the supply companies.   While I personally remain a tad frustrated being unable to buy what I want, I can still appreciate how difficult it is for those companies to negotiate this tightrope.

 

I'm guesing that the gradual contraction of the market place has had significant impacts, and the lack of younger modellers entering the hobby also poses potentially serious concerns for the future.   On that particular score I'm actually working on some plans that, if I'm right, could do a lot to turn the general trend around.

 

Ross.

 

PS - Particular thanks for the recommendations to check out Revolution, Cavalex and KMR.   Seems I missed those Pendolino's  but perhaps I can get in on a more detailed 91.   And I just picked up the last non-DCC Class 33 Eastleigh that Hattons had, to make sure I didn't miss it.   Cabbed that loco one time, from Portsmouth to Fareham when I was a kid!

Off topic, but I've been hearing that since I started in the hobby 40 years ago as a kid!!!  Over the past few years I've been noticing more and more teenagers at exhibitions then ever before

Edited June 10, 2020 by Half-full

[mdvle]

On 10/06/2020 at 15:09, RBTKraisee said:

While I personally remain a tad frustrated being unable to buy what I want, I can still appreciate how difficult it is for those companies to negotiate this tightrope.

 

The key is to have some patience and to be willing to act when it becomes available - and as suggested by the retailer in this thread to use Google to try and find smaller sources for what you are looking for new.

 

Also consider that, by modelling the UK while being in the US, you are at a disadvantage as during non-pandemic times you don't have the ability to attend shows and other places to have the opportunity of coming across stock that you want that isn't on a website.

 

On 10/06/2020 at 15:09, RBTKraisee said:

I'm guesing that the gradual contraction of the market place has had significant impacts, and the lack of younger modellers entering the hobby also poses potentially serious concerns for the future.

 

As already noted by another poster, this is a common complaint about this hobby and has been a complaint since at least the 1950s.  If one were to go back and read the letters section of the various hobby magazines over the decades you would find variations of the complaint that the hobby is dying, when what the person making the complaint really means is that the hobby is changing and they don't like the changes.

 

Just over 10 years ago there was little to no RTR O scale stuff in the UK - first Heljan, now joined by Dapol (and other smaller companies) means that RTR UK O is a thriving part of the hobby.

 

Recent years have seen the creation of the smaller companies doing business in a new way in N, and more importantly the newer entrant in OO (Accurascale) being open to collaborations where some of the development is shared in making both OO and N models of the same prototype.  So Accurascale and Revolution are collaborating on the nuclear flask wagon, the Mk5 coaches, and the Class 89 (and possibly more).

 

The other noticeable change in the hobby is the "disappearance" of hobby shops - but this too is a case of change rather than dying.  Those owners putting in the effort of moving online (see the post by Mike at C&M) have found ways to increase their sales beyond what they can get from people physically visiting - so most of the shops that closed are those that weren't willing or able to adjust to the changing retail environment that has proven to be a challenge for retailers of all sizes.

 

About the only part of the hobby that has truly died is the "every kid getting a trainset under the Christmas Tree" - but while certainly some stores miss those sales if people are honest 95% of those kids never converted to participating in this hobby as adults anyway.  And that 5% or whatever are kids who even today get those trainsets because they are truly interested in model trains.

 

But the reality is it has never been easier to discover this hobby regardless of age.  Whether it be the videos on YouTube or the numerous Facebook groups the hobby is available to anyone in a way that it never has been in the past - and most manufacturers seem to think the hobby is growing.

 

So the younger modellers are there - it's just they are off doing things there own way on social media and typically aren't visible to us older people unless we specifically go out looking for them - or they are doing things like DCC and sound that many older modellers find distasteful and thus ignore them.

 

On 10/06/2020 at 15:09, RBTKraisee said:

PS - Particular thanks for the recommendations to check out Revolution, Cavalex and KMR.   Seems I missed those Pendolino's  but perhaps I can get in on a more detailed 91.

 

There is another run of Pendolino's coming - you can see the starting process in the RMweb discussion about the Pendolino (which, because Rapido Trains actually made the Pendolino for Revolution, the discussion on RMweb is in the Rapido Trains area).

 

And if you go into the Smaller Suppliers section and search you will find that Kato is doing the Class 80x units in N - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/146261-kato-announces-class-800-in-n/

[mdvle]

Should also mention you may want to check out Realtrack Models - they did the N scale PCA Cement Wagon in partnership with Accurascale doing the OO version, and they also have Freightliner flats in development.

 

They also offer containers in N.

Edited June 11, 2020 by mdvle

[RBTKraisee]

On 10/06/2020 at 15:40, Mike at C&M said:

One method of locating models that often seems to be forgotten is to do a Google search for the specific model you are looking for. There are lots of other shops than just the larger box shifters, and we sometimes have items on the shelf that many believe are no longer available anywhere.

 

Much of our mail order business through the lockdown has resulted from people doing such specific searches and finding we do still have stock a long time after release.

 

This may seem to be extremely basic, but is often overlooked

 

Mike, that's a very good point.

 

I've already started to do that, particularly in my hunt for an Apple Green A3 4468 Flying Scotsman, because it appears to only be available as part of a kit that isn't stocked any more.   I've exhausted Google's pages at least once a week on that search alone - I do a minimum of 10 google pages, or give up when all the links on a page are no longer in English!   Mind you, I have found the odd item I want in places as far afield as Holland and New Zealand!   I don't care where it comes from, as long as I can get what I want! :)

 

I hate to say this Mike, but all those searches never actually turned up your shop.   I was delighted to see you pipe-up and mention C&M, and I had a good look around your website - I was pleasantly surprised to find a few things I'd like that I haven't found elsewhere yet.   Your prices seem fairly competitive and because you contributed to the thread here, I'm planning an order soon, by means of a thank you!

 

Over here in the US, houses for sale are all listed on a common database that all agents use to advertise on, and any house buyer can search easily.   It's called the Multiple Listing Service, or MLS.   The thought occurs to me that a similar system would be beneficial to smaller dealers who don't have the advertising power of the big boys.   You'd need to submit all your products, prices and stock levels and then customers could search for what they want and have a decent chance of finding even the rarest items *somewhere*.   It would potentially be a good way for shops to clear some of their inventory too.   The down-side to such a system would be that for items where there are many suppliers, customers will shop for the lowest price first, leaving the higher priced items on the shelf at the smaller stores.   Of course, as availability dwindles, those items become rarer and might command a slightly higher price as a result.

 

I wonder if dealers like you would be interested in such a system, and what pricing model such a system would use?   Would it be better to charge a fee for each item listed, or charge customers for access to the database...   But this is an interesting question for a totally different thread me-thinks!

 

Ross.

[RBTKraisee]

3 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

...But the reality is it has never been easier to discover this hobby regardless of age.  Whether it be the videos on YouTube or the numerous Facebook groups the hobby is available to anyone in a way that it never has been in the past - and most manufacturers seem to think the hobby is growing.

 

So the younger modellers are there - it's just they are off doing things there own way on social media and typically aren't visible to us older people unless we specifically go out looking for them - or they are doing things like DCC and sound that many older modellers find distasteful and thus ignore them.

 

Interesting observations and they appear to ring true.   I certainly do hope there will be a pendulum swing from young folk's activity being exclusively on these 5 inch screens everywhere and back to things in the real world again!   The few kids that I know over here in Florida seem genuinely excited when they find things away from their phones.   I do archery and kayaking and I've found that giving a kid a chance to do things like that genuinely opens up whole new worlds to them!   I'm still finding my feet in this hobby again, but I do think that creatively making things with your hands is an art people of all ages appreciate if given the opportunity.

 

There is another run of Pendolino's coming - you can see the starting process in the RMweb discussion about the Pendolino (which, because Rapido Trains actually made the Pendolino for Revolution, the discussion on RMweb is in the Rapido Trains area).

 

Yes, that is wonderful news.   I had found this after Mike mentioned C&M's website and after a brief search on there I definitely want a City of Edinburgh 11 car!   I hope they also consider reissuing the Poppylino again as I really want one of those too.

 

 

And if you go into the Smaller Suppliers section and search you will find that Kato is doing the Class 80x units in N -

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/146261-kato-announces-class-800-in-n/

 

The Revolution/Rapido trains seem to be really excellent products judging by how well received they were by everyone, but I know Kato has a reputation for high quality products too.   I've had my eye on one of their JR500 Shinkansen's and a Eurostar too, so if these 80x's are of that same quality they'll be great.

 

Now, if only I can find me some GNER Class 43 HST's (and I wrote to Cavalex expressing my interest in their Class 91's in N, to encourage them to proceed) I'll be doing a lot better particularly as Dapol say they aren't doing that livery in their next batch :(   I might just have to buy another livery and try repaint them myself.

 

Ross.

[mdvle]

32 minutes ago, RBTKraisee said:

Interesting observations and they appear to ring true.   I certainly do hope there will be a pendulum swing from young folk's activity being exclusively on these 5 inch screens everywhere and back to things in the real world again!   The few kids that I know over here in Florida seem genuinely excited when they find things away from their phones.

 

These are all US based, but I am guessing there are similar things happening elsewhere.

 

1) Video podcast "What's Neat This Week" has a young (teenage?) co-host(s) on a regular basis

 

2) podcast A Modellers Life - regular participant Shane "the young gun" - also hosts his own Youtube channel and is an assistant editor at Model Railroad News.  Also note the younger female regular featured, and they also have an older female who has featured several times - https://www.amodelerslife.com/the-crew.html

The hobby is diverse.

 

3) on above podcast, editor of Railroad Model Craftsman was interviewed in the last 6 months where he mentioned visiting NY and I think a LIRR station where there was a group of teenagers at the end of the platform - they knew the train schedules, were videoing the trains on their phones and posting/sharing online (and were surprised anyone "old" was interested in trains...)

 

4) can't find the video now, put back in March when Amtrak moved the first of their new Acela trains for testing there were 2 younger people out in the snow doing pictures and video.

 

5) Rapido Trains - Canadian model train maker - founded by Jason Shron when he was in the UK doing his PHD (which he abandoned), and many of Rapido's employees are on the younger side and are active in the hobby as well as photographing the real thing.  That, and they have fun - try reading some of their newsletters or watching their videos.

 

6) watch the Athearn Live videos on YouTube - again, the 3 employees don't appear to have reached middle age yet and they are active model railroaders and trainspotters.

 

7) several callers on the podcast/live internet radio show Model Rail Radio have their kids involved in the hobby.

 

More generally, what many tend to forget is that while younger people have always been in the hobby it has always been dominated by older people - because the money/time/space becomes available when the kids leave home and have finished college and thus we are in our late 40's to 50's.

 

[Forester]

When you say "New", do you mean New?

If a model has sat on a shop shelf for five years, is it really New?

If the same model sat on my shelf for five years, you would say it is Used. But quite a few of my models are unused and never taken out of the box, being bought for projects set aside. Yet the "New" models on the shop shelf are often really Used, having been tried in the shop by several propective purchaers.

 

Perhaps what you mean is "pristine unused", like my sad left-on-my-shelf models waiting hopefully their layout will be started,  I mean completed.

In which case there are vast numbers of suitable available out there being sold by people like me whose project planning far outstrips their ability to build.

 

I buy nearly all my stuff now through eBay, described as "new unused" with plenty of large pictures to check the models are pristine - and have not yet had to return one (which of course you can do whether the seller likes it or not under the eBay buyers guarantee scheme).

Now I have at least one railway to run them on, I am unable to distinguish between the ones bought "new" from a model shop and the ones bought on eBay sold on unused by - well, people like me!

 

We live at a time where vast numbers of models are pumped out by ever-increasing numbers of producers to an ever-reducing model fraternity. Probably only a small proportion of those purchases ever get used before they are sold on.

Explore the Unused eBay, or similar, market.

[The Johnster]

But a ‘pristine unused/brand new never out of the box but on the shelves in the shop/warehouse for the last decade’, sold at it’s original rrp or a discount based on that price is not the same as a new model.  Storage is not good for models; the finish fades if any light gets at them, corrosion gets a foothold unless the storage is climatically stable 24/7, and the grease lubrication becomes the very opposite, drying out and solidifying.  The model deteriorates over time, sometimes in some ways more so than in constant use. 
 

It’s warranty starts at the time of sale, and if there has been no new tooling and the model is still in the current catalogue the price will have probably increased several times.  This is not unique to model railways of course, but any market in which turnover is slow will be vulnerable to it. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by The Johnster

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎09‎/‎06‎/‎2020 at 22:30, RBTKraisee said:

...I understand that the UK market for such products has its limits and production runs are deliberately sized to sell out all of the products - that's good business sense - and it might account for what I'm seeing.   But my core question is this:   Is this just a temporary situation caused by some of the recent current affairs impacting production runs in one way or another, or is this actually normal and everyone in across the hobby just gets used to it?

Very definitely not a temporary or recent thing. UK N gauge has been marginal for volume these last twenty years is my opinion. Viewed over this span it has supported two mainstream manufacturers with ranges far more restricted than that for OO, and what should be popular competing products have seen a maker cancel their plans (about a decade past, the BachFar 9F, Pendolino).

 

Whether the new entrants can grow the UK's N market by expanding the range of choice is the question. Clearly there are many N gauge modellers hoping this will be the outcome. But unlike OO which is (majority?) propped up by collector sales, N is the domain of layout builders and modellers. Many people building ambitious layouts required...

[RBTKraisee]

Pristine unused is certainly acceptable to me, and I have been trawling ebay sites around the world for specific things.   I have managed to find a few items that meet this standard.   This forum is also a potential source; an excellent Mk1 coach from John Upton on here comes to mind.

 

Personally I don't even mind lightly used condition - as long as I know how well - or more importantly, how badly - it has been treated, and that's the rub:   There are few ways to tell before purchase and even with a deep inspection on receipt of a delivery it is still difficult to tell the difference between whether a loco was oiled and run-in correctly vs. never maintained at all.   And given the delicacy of some of these loco's, and their price, longevity is a requirement so prior treatment of used equipment becomes a real issue.

 

Forester: Now you have track, let your trains live! ;)

 

Ross.

[Phil Parker]

4 hours ago, Forester said:

We live at a time where vast numbers of models are pumped out by ever-increasing numbers of producers to an ever-reducing model fraternity.

 

Do you have evidence to support " ever-reducing model fraternity" - I doubt it. People have been predicting the demise of our hobby for over 50 years yet we see more models produced than ever. Someone is buying them.

[spamcan61]

5 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Do you have evidence to support " ever-reducing model fraternity" - I doubt it. People have been predicting the demise of our hobby for over 50 years yet we see more models produced than ever. Someone is buying them.

Indeed I recall such tales of gloom and doom when I started reading Railway Modeller in 1975; perhaps there is some degree of decline in numbers, but I don't think it's much subjectively. I also reckon that the total yearly spend on toy trains has gone up significantly over the years, as in general folks have more disposable income than 30-50 years ago so more money for trains, hence the proliferation of both big and small RtR manufacturers in recent times.

[Forester]

54 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Do you have evidence to support " ever-reducing model fraternity" - I doubt it. People have been predicting the demise of our hobby for over 50 years yet we see more models produced than ever. Someone is buying them.

 

I understand your slightly knee-jerk reaction to my somewhat over-general phrase, Phil, but the fact (relevant to the OP question) is that more and more products are being bought by a smaller and smaller band of people (those who can actually afford them for a start!) who then don't use many of them regularly or at all.

 

Some of us (the lucky ones who can afford it) can't resist buying the latest model whether it fits with our layouts or not, which we then sell on hardly used or unused when we've got over the excitement of a seeing/handling a previously unavailable RTR which we didn't really need.

 

That creates a large well of top quality "used" but pristine models on the market.

 

The OP stated he has difficulty finding new models, quoting models which have all been produced within the last few years (so not exactly Old) . We know this is because production runs are small and designed sell out before the next season's products, so anything produced over a year ago is unlikely to be available in the shops.

All I'm saying to the OP is those same models are available in good numbers in pristine condition, just not in model shops.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Indeed I recall such tales of gloom and doom when I started reading Railway Modeller in 1975; perhaps there is some degree of decline in numbers, but I don't think it's much subjectively. I also reckon that the total yearly spend on toy trains has gone up significantly over the years, as in general folks have more disposable income than 30-50 years ago so more money for trains, hence the proliferation of both big and small RtR manufacturers in recent times.

The entry of new competitors is the strongest evidence for market growth. People don't do this to lose their shirts, and will have researched the opportunity. And then there is a major retailer, quite recently heard in a broadcast telling Hornby's marketing guy that the reason he has started production of his own range of models is because he had insufficient supply from the RTR manufacturers to sustain his business. I need more stuff to sell.

 

I too find the pessimism very strange, this is a niche hobby, just one of who knows how many niche hobbies. I don't see it as especially at risk any more than other hobbies; and it has a major strength for many, in offering an indoor activity in the warm for folks finding outdoor activity increasingly less practical as they age.

[Les1952]

It is a lot of years now since I pre-ordered a pair of N-scale Life-Like Alco diesels in Erie Lackawnna colours from an American dealer I had had more than a few models from in the past, only to get an email just after release to say that I wouldn't be getting my models as Life-Like hadn't made enough to come anywhere near satisfying pre-orders, and that Life-Like wouldn't be doing another batch in that livery.

 

It was one of the nails in the coffin of my American modelling- the rise of Dapol N-gauge being another...

 

Small batch production is only a case of the UK catching up with a lot of the rest of the world outside of Fleischmannn.

 

Les

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Les1952

[mdvle]

6 hours ago, Forester said:

 

I understand your slightly knee-jerk reaction to my somewhat over-general phrase, Phil, but the fact (relevant to the OP question) is that more and more products are being bought by a smaller and smaller band of people (those who can actually afford them for a start!) who then don't use many of them regularly or at all.

 

So, in support of Phil, you don't have any evidence and thus it is merely your opinion.

 

Claiming something does not make it a fact.

 

And while I can't definitely say the hobby is growing, the evidence - the every increasing numbers of items released each year, the number of new entrants into the manufacturing side of things - is that the hobby is at worst stationary or more likely growing.

 

In addition to the obvious indications, there is also the growth in the laser cut industry, 3D printed items, and hobbyists buying and designing items for their layout themselves via these new technologies.

 

In other words, the hobby is as ever evolving and changing.