First and last layout

[Chimer]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

My alternative suggestion would be to have the eastern junction a conventional double junction, which can become a single line feeding the loops once it's hidden.

 

I like the idea of a junction at a station, though the design something like that is not something I can speak about with any knowledge.

 

Yep, like the double junction idea - the slip would then be single to form a crossover, needed for MPD access, unless that was tweaked too.  Could do that at both ends actually …. maybe?

 

And I just thought the station layout with the extra platform face for trains going down the branch was more interesting than just having a double slip at the western end.  No idea if it's at all prototypical …. someone will know!

[Zomboid]

Wouldn't it need to be a trailing crossover though? Putting a slip on that diamond would be a facing crossover. 

[Harlequin]

4 hours ago, Chimer said:

 

And I just thought the station layout with the extra platform face for trains going down the branch was more interesting than just having a double slip at the western end.  No idea if it's at all prototypical …. someone will know!

Oh yes! (And oh yes.)

 

Two examples are Patney and Chirton (branch to Devizes) and Par (branch to Newquay).

 

[pgcroc]

15 hours ago, Chimer said:

I haven't attempted to design goods yard or MPD, as I'm no good at those, especially not MPDs.  The goods yard probably needs to feature a run-round loop and a fan of sidings at each end.

Many thanks Chimer for taking the trouble to draw your take on the layout.

It certainly looks a lot better than my miserable effort.

I will certainly use it on my redesign. Mine looks a bit 'boxy', all straights and corners, no real interest.

My knowledge of goods yards and MPD's is 100% less than yours! I continue looking at pictures that I find on the Net trying to find something that gives me a light bulb moment that I can use as a base for mine.

If I knew then what I know now I would have done some sort of railway apprenticeship instead of going to sea as an engineer.

ps. How do you get emojis into your text. It does not allow me to do it?

12 hours ago, Zomboid said:

My alternative suggestion would be to have the eastern junction a conventional double junction, which can become a single line feeding the loops once it's hidden.

Many thanks Zomboid. I have no idea what a conventional double junction is.

No doubt I have seen many of these on my journey into this hobby but not realised what they were.

Cheers

Pete 

 

 

[pgcroc]

5 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Oh yes! (And oh yes.)

 

Two examples are Patney and Chirton (branch to Devizes) and Par (branch to Newquay).

Thanks Harlequin.

I will try and find these 2 locations to see what is meant by this.

Cheers

Pete

[Chimer]

Double junction (could be right hand points instead) - 

 

Emojis - there should be an emoji symbol in the text formatting bar at the top of your "reply" window …..

 

Cheers, Chris

[Zomboid]

5 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Oh yes! (And oh yes.)

 

Two examples are Patney and Chirton (branch to Devizes) and Par (branch to Newquay).

 

Castle Cary comes to mind, too.

[pgcroc]

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

 

Emojis - there should be an emoji symbol in the text formatting bar at the top of your "reply" window …..

Thanks for the double junction details.

I had been using the Windows emojis. That's where I have been going wrong.

 

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

Castle Cary comes to mind, too.

Another one to search for Zomboid.

Thanks

Cheers

Pete

[Chimer]

As you seemed to like it, I thought it was worth having another go.  So the branches are now double track (thanks Zomboid) and the MPD access has shifted round to the station east throat.  The two trailing crossovers in the station area mean you can terminate and reverse a train if you want to.  I would have liked to have replaced the two right-hand points marked "X" with a double slip, but felt that would shorten the inside circuit platform too much.  But it's an option ……  The turntable was just dropped in at random but could go almost anywhere in that rough area.  The curves are still at least 3rd radius everywhere, but tighter than I'd like either side of the station.

 

 

Best of luck, Chris

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Chimer

[pgcroc]

18 hours ago, Chimer said:

Best of luck, Chris

Thanks very much Chris.

Your design looks very interesting. 

Have you added more tunnels for my wife? 

I've printed it off and hopefully over the weekend I can get to putting it on paper. Footie permitting 

Cheers

Pete

[Chimer]

5 hours ago, pgcroc said:

 

Have you added more tunnels for my wife? 

 

 

I did have the fact you said she likes tunnels in mind .   But they also hide tight bends and allow trains to disappear into storage loops (top right probably best to be a bridge which somehow links to the wall between the loops and the visible main line and goods yard).

[The Johnster]

If you moved the station anticlockwise partly on to the curve, and had the shed entrance in the vicinity of x, you may be able to ease some of the curves out a bit.

[pgcroc]

Hi All

My flight home on the 3rd of August has been cancelled. Now booked for the 17th.

One day I will get home! 

 

I've spent time usefully between the layout design and the pub. More time doing one than the other.

 

The curves in the top left and right, A and B, are still not quite smooth like Harlequin's plans. Maybe I can better this once I can physically lay track out. All in all it looks better than my first attempt and I've got 3 running lines.

I've put double slips in at C and D. Don't know if that was a wise thing to do.

 

The engine shed area seems OK to me but comments would be appreciated. 

I have not made a serious attempt of the goods area yet. More investigation is required.

 

Looking at the layout as a whole it is a bit boxy and train set like. I don't know how to cure this! Back to angled or curved stations?

Cheers

Pete

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi Pete - sorry to hear about your travel problems - it is all still a nightmare for so many people and not really getting easier.

 

In terms of layout planning, one way to try and ‘break out’ from the straight lines is to sketch out your space and then draw a gently curved platform approximately where you want it and of the length you want.  That will then shift everything else away from the straight too.  It’s an iterative process and one I personally find easier with paper and pencil. When I have something starting to come together, I transfer to a computer to find which bits do and don’t fit.  It’s just a suggestion - there are other techniques, but I took Engineering Drawing and Geometry at School, not Art, so I’ve had to learn how not to draw in straight lines!  Keith.

[pgcroc]

Hi Keith

Thanks for your reply.

I will give your paper and pencil approach a try. Perhaps I am relying too much on SCARM.

 

I have been in Cyprus since the 10th March. Was due to go home end of May.

There are piles of magazines, a 3D printer and unspecified boxes, wife does not know what is in them , to be opened and tested.

Will take a month to do that lot.

 

Cheers

Pete

[Chimer]

Hi Pete

 

Obviously I still think my last plan was better .  That aside, I think there are a few things you need to change for your latest plan to work at all:

 

Assuming the pink and green lines represent a conventional double track main line with left-hand running, you need platforms for both lines at both stations, otherwise it doesn't make any sense at all.  For instance, you could make the top station an island platform between pink and green, do the same with the upper platform at the bottom station, and move the lower platform there to the outside of the outermost track.

 

The crossover at the right hand end of the top station needs to be trailing, i.e. two left-hand points instead of right-hands.  You can then stop a train going in either direction between the crossovers, run the loco round the train (assuming loco-hauled), and depart in the opposite direction, gaining the correct line via the crossover.  At the moment, you can only do this arriving on green and departing on pink, not the other way round.  And the other way round is more important, because if you leave the fiddle yard going anti-clockwise and move over to the pink line at the lower station, as you should, the only way back to the fiddle yard for a loco-hauled train involves a very awkward shunt, or wrong line running, or both.

 

And an additional trailing crossover between pink and green at the right hand end of the bottom station wouldn't be a bad idea either.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

P.S.  I don't know much about SCARM, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't force you to make all your straights parallel to your baseboard edges ......

 

 

 

 

[ISW]

9 hours ago, pgcroc said:

*snip*

 

Pete,

 

There are very few stations with a track having through platforms on both sides. The only 2 that come to my mind are both on Singapore MRT, and in both cases the centre (twin platform) track is used for a diverging Line off the Mainlines. Those trains that pass through that platform are always stopping trains, but the majority use it as a terminus  / turnback track. If you take that line of thought and add in the beginnings of split-level for the diverging and main lines you'll start to lose that flat-earth look.

 

I'd also look to tighten the curve bottom-left and hide it in a tunnel thus making space to flatten the curve bottom-right. Then you 'could' relocate the turntable / depot into the bottom-right corner (& effectively 'mirror' L/R the station).

 

Just a thought ...

 

Ian

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

2 hours ago, ISW said:

Pete,

 

There are very few stations with a track having through platforms on both sides. The only 2 that come to my mind are both on Singapore MRT, and in both cases the centre (twin platform) track is used for a diverging Line off the Mainlines. Those trains that pass through that platform are always stopping trains, but the majority use it as a terminus  / turnback track. If you take that line of thought and add in the beginnings of split-level for the diverging and main lines you'll start to lose that flat-earth look.

 

I'd also look to tighten the curve bottom-left and hide it in a tunnel thus making space to flatten the curve bottom-right. Then you 'could' relocate the turntable / depot into the bottom-right corner (& effectively 'mirror' L/R the station).

 

Just a thought ...

 

Ian

 

I’d agree stations with platforms either side of a through running line aren’t common, but I thought Yeovil Pen Mill was a UK example?

[ISW]

3 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I’d agree stations with platforms either side of a through running line aren’t common, but I thought Yeovil Pen Mill was a UK example?

Keith,

 

Indeed it does, but it doesn't have 2 island platforms. Both of my examples are the exact arrangement of platforms shown in your layout, if that really matters. It's your railway after all ...

 

Ian

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

6 minutes ago, ISW said:

Keith,

 

Indeed it does, but it doesn't have 2 island platforms. Both of my examples are the exact arrangement of platforms shown in your layout, if that really matters. It's your railway after all ...

 

Ian

 

Thanks - helpful clarification.  Afraid it’s not my layout though, the space (and the drawings) belong to @pgcroc

[ISW]

1 minute ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Thanks - helpful clarification.  Afraid it’s not my layout though, the space (and the drawings) belong to @pgcroc

Keith,

 

Oops. Sorry about that. I suppose your not stuck in Cyprus either .... 

 

Ian

[Keith Addenbrooke]

12 minutes ago, ISW said:

Keith,

 

Oops. Sorry about that. I suppose your not stuck in Cyprus either .... 

 

Ian

Hi Ian, no - I’m at home.  Keith.

[Harlequin]

Hi Pete,

 

I think you're floundering, not quite knowing what to do for the best or how to do it! Is that fair?

 

In think that maybe you haven't got a really clear vision for the layout and we might be able to help you better if you, and we, knew what the vision was. So:

• What are the things you really must have in the layout?
• What things would you like to have if at all possible?
• Do you really want two stations? Would one be enough or would you have more than two if you could?
• Do you need a fiddle yard or a storage yard? I.e. If the layout was all scenic and there were enough places to park all the trains you want to run would that be good enough?
• Is it a "must have" that three trains can be set running and left to themselves? Would 2 running and one being actively driven cut the mustard?
• Do you have any real stations or real places in mind whose spirit you'd like to capture?
• What about the landscape? Do you imagine rural, urban or a bit of both?
• What level of realism are you aiming for on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is Thomas the Tank Engine and 10 is finescale, ultra-detailed (e.g. Pendon).

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Harlequin

[Keith Addenbrooke]

16 hours ago, Chimer said:

PS.  I don't know much about SCARM, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't force you to make all your straights parallel to your baseboard edges ......

Looking at Pete’s drawing, I suspect that SCARM (like Anyrail) May have preset Objects that can be used for Setrack / Skaledale platform pieces, which are straight. Using them therefore introduces a constraint (and they can be a pain to rotate accurately).
 

If Pete had been able to get home already, I’d agree with his idea of laying out a piece of Flextrack - or even a piece of string - on the actual boards to visualise a gentle curve.  When I transfer my ideas to a computer, I tend not to try and include the platforms for that reason, but I’ve worked out where I want them.  (For presentation I just add them as a rough PowerPoint overlay when finished, but not when designing).  I liked the nicely angled station in your previous design - the platforms are straight, but don’t feel that way.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

10 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Pete,

 

I think you're floundering, not quite knowing what to do for the best or how to do it! Is that fair?

 

In think that maybe you haven't got a really clear vision for the layout and we might be able to help you better if you, and we, knew what the vision was. So:

• What are the things you really must have in the layout?
• What things would you like to have if at all possible?
• Do you really want two stations? Would one be enough or would you have more than two if you could?
• Do you need a fiddle yard or a storage yard? I.e. If the layout was all scenic and there were enough places to park all the trains you want to run would that be good enough?
• Is it a "must have" that three trains can be set running and left to themselves? Would 2 running and one being actively driven cut the mustard?
• Do you have any real stations or real places in mind whose spirit you'd like to capture?
• What about the landscape? Do you imagine rural, urban or a bit of both?
• What level of realism are you aiming for on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is Thomas the Tank Engine and 10 is finescale, ultra-detailed (e.g. Pendon).

 

Some good questions to take down to the pub one evening perhaps?  
 

It’s worth working through this kind of process - there are lots of things to like about model railways, but one of the most effective can be to have a theme and an overall vision for the layout.  I know my own modelling can only rate a 4 out of 10 at best (maybe a 3 - it’s just an indication), but I think having a theme and vision for my layout(s) bumps me up to a good 5 just by itself - for a ‘first and last’ layout it could also be the key to sustaining interest.  Have fun and enjoy, Keith.