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I'm getting a bit confused here, chaps.  I was just happily tweaking my station plan to solve Phil's worry about road access (though a station building on an overbridge could do the job) when half a dozen more posts landed going in diverging directions.  I thought I knew what Pete wanted, but maybe not ......

 

I think I'm just going to let the dust settle before I suggest anything else!  Last night's crossovers idea was not properly thought through - last night's eating (and drinking) out to help out obviously had an impact!

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Posted (edited)

I've been looking at some real junction station plans and twiddling around. It really helps if the branch line is on the inside of the main circuits:

pgcroc5.png.4f5ec2ab2915d095aa0316e7a62e8191.png

 

  • All the trackwork is then simpler and smoother.
  • Allows the station building to be on the outside platform with road connection to a possible town scene in the corner.
  • Refuge siding running parallel to the main line tracks for a distance outside the station (not shown yet) for some fun overtaking movements and somewhere to park a train on scene.
  • Around the back of the platform the through/passenger branch line stands against the island platform and there's a separate goods loop outside that with suitable connections.
  • A loading dock at the left hand end of the Down platform for quick pick-up and drop-off of van traffic on the Down side.
  • Minimum radius 610mm (2ft) - no trainset curves yet!

 

This is just a draft - still need to develop the goods yard and position the engine shed (MPD). But not today.

 

Edited by Harlequin
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21 hours ago, pgcroc said:

@Flying Pig, I have relented. A junction on the lifting flap can be put in. The only reason I initially was against this was that I am using Tortoise point motors, (I have around 24 of them), and they are quite large. But, as I will be the only person 'operating' this flap, I will be aware of it. One day I want to covert it to a hinged flap. 

 

Its well worth starting with a hinged flap.   It makes alignment much easier and avoids the need to connect and disconnect wiring.   If you do the hinged flap before you lay track you can install some very strong and discreet hinges direct to the baseboard framing for long trouble free life, instead of having add ons which work loose.  I can lift our flap, open the door, step outside and, lower the flap again in under 15 seconds, without stopping the trains if I time it right.  The lift section has a at least 6 tracks at one end, three platforms, two levels, is about 30" by 18" and only clears the ceiling by 2".  It has two metcalfe station buildings with interiors and lights and a footbridge.  The wires have a multipin plug but it hasn't been disconnected for about 10 years.  Its as fully scenic as any other bit of the layout and the joins are disguised with boarded walkways at the hinge end and an overlap at the other. It needs the occasional tweak at the rail ends but otherwise just works.

Edited by DavidCBroad
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17 hours ago, Chimer said:

I think I'm just going to let the dust settle before I suggest anything else!  Last night's crossovers idea was not properly thought through - last night's eating (and drinking) out to help out obviously had an impact!

Good idea Chimer. There are at least 3 different ideas for the storage lines now.

 

4 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Its well worth starting with a hinged flap.   It makes alignment much easier and avoids the need to connect and disconnect wiring.   If you do the hinged flap before you lay track you can install some very strong and discreet hinges direct to the baseboard framing for long trouble free life, instead of having add ons which work loose.

David, I will look at this once I get home. Are you willing to share a picture of yours?

 

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

This is just a draft - still need to develop the goods yard and position the engine shed (MPD). But not today.

Many thanks Harlequin. 

 

I have made 3 copies of my baseboard in SCARM and will try and incorporate the various ideas that have been put forward. No idea how long this will take.

I was afraid of this happening. Obviously everybody will have their own, (good), ideas but which can be totally different and not wrong. 

For instance I seem to have fixed in my mind that the storage tracks should be on the north side of the layout, I've always drawn it on this side.  Why, I don't know! It's the same width on the south! I have to be more flexible.:wacko:

 

I hope I will not upset anybody by perhaps using more of one design than another, another thing I was worried about once I saw all the different ones.

 

Stay safe

Pete 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I've been looking at some real junction station plans and twiddling around. It really helps if the branch line is on the inside of the main circuits:

pgcroc5.png.4f5ec2ab2915d095aa0316e7a62e8191.png

 

  • All the trackwork is then simpler and smoother.
  • Allows the station building to be on the outside platform with road connection to a possible town scene in the corner.
  • Refuge siding running parallel to the main line tracks for a distance outside the station (not shown yet) for some fun overtaking movements and somewhere to park a train on scene.
  • Around the back of the platform the through/passenger branch line stands against the island platform and there's a separate goods loop outside that with suitable connections.
  • A loading dock at the left hand end of the Down platform for quick pick-up and drop-off of van traffic on the Down side.
  • Minimum radius 610mm (2ft) - no trainset curves yet!

 

This is just a draft - still need to develop the goods yard and position the engine shed (MPD). But not today.

 

 

I wouldn't disagree with anything here, ticks all the operational boxes I want for myself, though I do prefer the branch on the outside 'cos I want it to disappear first, going in an apparently different direction.  But has Pete ever suggested he wants a junction with a "traditional" branchline - as opposed to some way of getting mainline trains in and out of a storage yard?  Just asking .....

 

Chris

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Chimer said:

 

I wouldn't disagree with anything here, ticks all the operational boxes I want for myself, though I do prefer the branch on the outside 'cos I want it to disappear first, going in an apparently different direction.  But has Pete ever suggested he wants a junction with a "traditional" branchline - as opposed to some way of getting mainline trains in and out of a storage yard?  Just asking .....

 

Chris


Fair question. He did say he wanted realism 7/10.


I was just putting forward an alternative idea but clearly this is not wanted right now.

 

So I will back off for a while.

Edited by Harlequin
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The branch like that is another solution. The main lines could run via the storage roads, and the branch could run in front, either through a purely scenic area, or a smaller station, before rejoining the main line to the right. Or it could do the BLT in front of the FY cliché.

 

Though if Pete is only really interested in running main line trains then the obvious answer would be to run a main line in front of the storage.

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46 minutes ago, Chimer said:

But has Pete ever suggested he wants a junction with a "traditional" branchline - as opposed to some way of getting mainline trains in and out of a storage yard?  Just asking .....

I have never thought about it Chimer, but am happy to have one. A bit more interest.

 

39 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Fair question. He did say he wanted realism 7/10.


I was just putting forward an alternative idea but clearly this is not wanted right now.

 

So I will back off for a while.

Harlequin, the only problem is I don't know what 'realism' is! 

 

1 hour ago, pgcroc said:

I have made 3 copies of my baseboard in SCARM and will try and incorporate the various ideas that have been put forward. No idea how long this will take.

I was afraid of this happening. Obviously everybody will have their own, (good), ideas but which can be totally different and not wrong. 

 

I think that as you have all spent a lot of time on this that you let me have a go over the next couple of weeks. I hope to be home on the 17th so at least I can get into the garage where it will be easier to visualise everything.

 

I greatly appreciate what you have done so far. It will definitely help.

Please do not waste anymore time on this. I mean this nicely :D

I have to decide what I want, I obviously have not been clear enough, maybe I don't know what I want myself!

Not having been on or having anything to do with railways, nor have ever tried to design a layout before, it's has been a difficult journey.

I envy you all your knowledge.

Hopefully once I get some designs drawn and post them here you may look at them.

 

Many, many thanks

Pete

 

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1 hour ago, pgcroc said:

 

 

David, I will look at this once I get home. Are you willing to share a picture of yours?

 

 

Hi, As requested. Some must be 10 years old as they pre date the Metcalfe station building and all predate the board crossing I added in early 2020.

The Jinty was posed for selling on eBay, it doesn't run on the railway.

DSCN9391.jpg

SAM_1206.JPG

SAM_1206a.JPG

Screenshot (163).png

Edited by DavidCBroad
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5 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

Hi, As requested. Some must be 10 years old as they pre date the Metcalfe station building and all predate the board crossing I added in early 2020.

Very nifty. Thanks for the pictures.

Looks like a very nice layout.

Cheers

Pete 

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Hi Guys. I got back home just under 4 weeks ago.

Busy with house stuff but have made a start again on my layout.

 

I submit this with trepidation.

 

Firstly an apology regarding a board size. I measured all the boards again and the statement :

On 30/07/2020 at 16:57, pgcroc said:
On 30/07/2020 at 15:22, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Looking at the photo from the OP, I’m not convinced the centre end baseboard (N4 - P6 on @Harlequin’s grid repeated below) looks 3’ deep (West - East):

You are correct. It's 32" as below. You have excellent eyesight!

Is wrong.

It's not 32". It is actually 36"

I also measured the bracing under the baseboard and these are shown as dotted lines.

 

I have used @Harlequin carriage sidings layout with small alterations to avoid braces under the points.

 

Going around the top and right hand side I have a couple of small DC locos run by a MERG Automatic Train Control system. Plug and play hope, (after I have built the kits).

This will be about 4" above the baseboard. Gives me an excuse to put high level stations and town scenes in the corners.

 

Along the south wall will be half relief houses and shops which are above the bottom 2 siding tracks. I intend to put a couple of lift out sections of wall in case of derailments but as they will be straight lines hopefully this will not happen.

 

As can be seen I have started laying track.

However, as I am covering the whole with cork I know they will have to come up again. I just wanted to see if I could get the curves in an looking half decent. I need to get something down sort of permanently. ^_^

 

At the 2 main stations I have put in extra lines to go either side of the platforms. There are loads of points.

I have tried to think of loco running around trains, facing and trailing points etc etc. Would appreciate any comments on this especially to simplify them. 

The main stations could be curved but I cannot see how I can fit that in.

 

I'm thinking of the station building having a high level access to both platforms with steps and lifts down onto the platforms.

 

There is a road in on the idea  bottom to serve a factory, milk, sheep, cows, whatever.

Would this be classed as a Branch station?

I still have not figured out a goods shed area or engine shed layout. Maybe the engine shed could be a single one with a couple of locos sat nearby. Then to add coaling, ash and water services.

I was also working on the idea that goods have to come from somewhere and go to somewhere else. Hence the factory at the bottom and a goods receiving yard somewhere near the main stations. Any ideas?

 

I have looked at everybodies suggestions but as you appreciate I cannot take everyone of them on board. Please do not be offended.

 

I think that this is probably enough to bore you today!

 

Cheers and stay safe

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 30/07/2020 at 16:57, pgcroc said:

 

Capture 26.JPG

IMG_1999.JPG

IMG_2001.JPG

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Hi Pete, good to hear you got home OK - that’s the most important thing.  My apologies for starting the confusion over baseboard widths: I don’t think the 4” difference should be too critical in this space.
 

Having had a quick read of your post, the thing that jumps out to me is that you have some good ideas about what you’re going for, some ideas on how it might run and how to make it fit into the surrounding scenic setting, which is all good stuff.

 

To me, it looks more like a question of refining the details now to optimise things.  I realise I’m first to comment (I just happen to be online at the moment), but there are just a couple of things I’d mention if I may:

 

1.  Now you’re home, it’s presumably easy to check you can reach your high level Terminus?  Can you reach to re-rail trains in the corners?
 

2.  I’d suggest running the Turntable from the Engine Shed side, not the Branch Line.
 

3.  The Branch Line junction onto the mainline may be improvable to give access if you want to run trains onto the branch from the clockwise platforms / main line.

 

Those bits and and fill in the details for the factory and I could be happy to start with a plan like this, though do have a play with some Flextrack to look at gentle curves - you can check them on the computer (per comments earlier in the thread).  Cheers, Keith.

 

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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PS: forgot to say, the prototype this still reminds me of is Tyseley on the ex-GW line out of Birmingham:  I won’t have all the details correct, but something like:

 

Mainline through trains - GW services from Birmingham Snow Hill to London and points South, northbound through Birmingham and on to Wolverhampton and Birkenhead, twin island platforms with a High Level Station building over them, a Motive Power Depot and Carriage Sidings more than Goods Sidings, which were up the line at Small Heath.  Commuter trains from Birmingham Moor Street to Solihull and on to Leamington Spa, and a Branch line junction to Shirley and Stratford-upon-Avon (though it was double track I think).

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Hi Keith

 

13 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

1.  Now you’re home, it’s presumably easy to check you can reach your high level Terminus?  Can you reach to re-rail trains in the corners?
 

2.  I’d suggest running the Turntable from the Engine Shed side, not the Branch Line.
 

3.  The Branch Line junction onto the mainline may be improvable to give access if you want to run trains onto the branch from the clockwise platforms / main line.

 

Those bits and and fill in the details for the factory and I could be happy to start with a plan like this, though do have a play with some Flextrack

 

1. Yes, I'm pretty sure I can. Liberated the kitchen steps so can lean over. I will know for sure if I can re-rail a train once I put up a temporary high level track. 

 

2. Turntable moved adjacent to top left hand high level area.

 

3. I had looked at it but could not see how I could do it.The only place it might be possible is on the middle of the east board. It would have to cross the anti clockwise, (blue), line. I will have another look as I will probably need to move a point that is very close to a bracing.

 

11 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

PS: forgot to say, the prototype this still reminds me of is Tyseley on the ex-GW line out of Birmingham:  I won’t have all the details correct, but something like:

 

I will not pretend to say I know this but will happily take your word for it! You obviously know your stations.

 

Many thanks for the reply.

 

Pete 

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58 minutes ago, pgcroc said:

Hi Keith

 

 

1. Yes, I'm pretty sure I can. Liberated the kitchen steps so can lean over. I will know for sure if I can re-rail a train once I put up a temporary high level track. 

 

2. Turntable moved adjacent to top left hand high level area.

 

3. I had looked at it but could not see how I could do it.The only place it might be possible is on the middle of the east board. It would have to cross the anti clockwise, (blue), line. I will have another look as I will probably need to move a point that is very close to a bracing.

 

 

I will not pretend to say I know this but will happily take your word for it! You obviously know your stations.

 

Many thanks for the reply.

 

Pete 


Thanks Pete.  There are others much better placed than I am to talk through how to arrange all the details for a Motive Power Depot, and to advise on how best to work in a junction on a curve that follows the rules and uses standard track pieces, so I’m not the best person for that, sorry.

 

As for the Tyseley, I used to live on that line years ago.  It’s only a loose reference, but it can be helpful to look at photos of a location just to see what it looks like.  Have fun, Keith.

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To get access from the branch to the outer circuit, rearrange the left-hand station throat using a double slip, like this ....

 

343100958_pgroc3jpg.jpg.64de4e9c1a3e50bd62b1634c885bc572.jpg

 

Hope this helps ....

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Thanks @Chimer

 

I will look into that today.

I am trying to keep the locos running in the correct direction, on the left.

But was 'wrong way' running usual on the GWR?

 

Cheers

Pete

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I think this suggestion works:

 

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

To get access from the branch to the outer circuit, rearrange the left-hand station throat using a double slip, like this ....

 

343100958_pgroc3jpg.jpg.64de4e9c1a3e50bd62b1634c885bc572.jpg

 

Hope this helps ....

 

1 hour ago, pgcroc said:

Thanks @Chimer

 

I will look into that today.

I am trying to keep the locos running in the correct direction, on the left.

But was 'wrong way' running usual on the GWR?

 

Cheers

Pete

 

52 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Right hand running was uncommon on all railways in the UK.


I don’t think ‘wrong way’ running is needed - which I agree was uncommon.  To explain - 

 

 

B1BAC298-534B-49C0-A075-D84A45573158.jpeg.5c3265983a2ac33e537d3762ed2384aa.jpeg
 

By moving the junction to the Left-hand end of the Station and using a double slip, Down trains going onto the branch take route 1 and Up trains from the Branch can take route 2.  Both only involve correct working.

 

The trailing crossover option allowed by the double slip (route 3) is just for running round trains in the platform, not a running line.

 

I wonder if this variation might be more likely:

44AF2B15-5F32-4023-B7D0-D4D2AF48FC0C.jpeg.ecd6419fd8ee690fa78684fd7edf5614.jpeg

 

Down trains going onto the Branch Line now don’t have to block the main Down line at any point, and an Up train coming off the Branch can’t accidentally end up going the wrong way along the Down main line.

 

To get from the main Down line onto the Branch, a train would enter the platform loop at the other end of the station - which is how @Chimer drew a station suggestion earlier in the conversation.

 

Looking at Pete’s current plan, I think this will fit without reducing the platform length?

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Thanks Keith, Zomboid and Chimer

I will have a look at which suits the layout.

Investigation has to be carried out to see if I can move the top left hand bracing under the baseboard first.

There are a lot of points in that area.

 

Cheers

Pete

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Keith has interpreted my thinking exactly - it certainly doesn't involve wrong line running, which Pete's original does, from the branch platform via the inner circuit (wrong line) to the crossover in the bottom right corner.  I agree Keith's second sketch would be preferable, but I think it would be harder to fit that arrangement in without losing platform length.

 

Btw Pete, if you can make the platforms an inch wider I think it would make things look a lot better ...... but it's all compromise!

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31 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If you really want to go to town, then this kind of formation is (I think) not unlike the kind of thing that you might have seen at junction stations...

pgcrocjcn.png.6b9cfac760af25bc604b2de6921d72b1.png

 

Since the branch platform loop connects to the main line at the other end of the platform you could avoid the second connection at this end as well..???

 

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Hi guys

 

6 hours ago, Chimer said:

To get access from the branch to the outer circuit, rearrange the left-hand station throat using a double slip, like this ....

 

This modification has already been done. It's a bit tight in there. 

 

17 minutes ago, Chimer said:

I agree Keith's second sketch would be preferable, but I think it would be harder to fit that arrangement in without losing platform length.

 

I have already taken one section out of the platform. Down to around 5 feet. Should take 5 coaches and the loco. The platforms are from the standard Hornby range that I get in SCARM. They are there as a guesstimation. The intention is to make my own to a width that suits.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Chimer said:

Btw Pete, if you can make the platforms an inch wider I think it would make things look a lot better ...... but it's all compromise!

 

The track centres going through the stations is 68 mm. This could be reduced to around 55 mm I suppose allowing a bit more width if I extend the other sides as well. 

While thinking of this I realise that as the station will be an overhead one then the platforms I will probably have make them a bit wider anyway.

 

13 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If you really want to go to town, then this kind of formation is (I think) not unlike the kind of thing that you might have seen at junction stations...

 

I will make copies of the layout and apply Keith's second suggestion and then another one with Zomboid's idea. 

As I said, I will have to look at moving the cross bracing mentioned above to try and give a bit more clearance for the point motors.

 

Can I assume that you are all happy with the tracks and points at right hand side of the stations?

 

Do you know, when I first started to think about doing this, I had NO idea of what was to come and what I needed to know! It certainly is an eye opener.  I am grateful to all that have helped me 

 

As always, many thanks.

Cheers

Pete

 

 

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