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And another thing :jester:

With regard to the new, blue siding for the workshops - it should be accessed from a trailing point at the right hand end of P1, not a facing point from the left-hand end.  Which, apart from anything else, would mean it could be shunted by the train engine without the engine getting trapped against the buffers ....

 

Sorry!!

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8 minutes ago, Chimer said:

And another thing :jester:

With regard to the new, blue siding for the workshops - it should be accessed from a trailing point at the right hand end of P1, not a facing point from the left-hand end.  Which, apart from anything else, would mean it could be shunted by the train engine without the engine getting trapped against the buffers ....

 

Sorry!!


Agreed - it would be a trailing point, though I’m still not sure there’d be a Siding allowed there at all?

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11 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:


Agreed - it would be a trailing point, though I’m still not sure there’d be a Siding allowed there at all?

 

Can't see why not, you can have a trailing siding pretty well anywhere.

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Hi Pete, re-reading your description of an "operating story" for the Branch Line, I can see it working as a Single-ended Branch Line with a Terminus in front of the Storage Sidings for the operation wanted, as Chimer suggests:

 

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

Stepping back a bit and looking at the overall situation, my latest confusing suggestion would be to make the branch station a terminus - single platform, runround loop, 2 kickback goods sidings.  Ditch the pink and maroon tracks linking back to the main lines on the right hand side. 

 

This would also fit with the Scheme originally suggested by @Harlequin earlier on in the thread.

 

A lot depends on where the balance of operating time will be spent.  Personally, I think there is something nice about a continuous scenic run branch line that can be left more or less to run itself while mainline trains come and go through the main station, so I'd keep it (but this is a matter of preference and I know I lean that way).

 

I would still tidy up the right-hand side junction, so if I may be permitted one final suggestion - the simplest version, which also fits most closely with the suggested Scheme (and uses @Chimer's junction at the left hand end) to me looks like this:

 

1325360001_pgcroc8.jpg.844f7da9eb4e091c7abfea7ae841dec3.jpg

 

I am still adding a simple facing crossover at A so Up trains can get onto the Branch Line if you want.  I'm also adding in Crossover B as suggested by Chimer just now to connect the Goods Shed / MPD with the Station.

 

I don't think this would need much realignment of the tracks at the right hand end if it is of interest.  If there's room for the extra connecting line at C then the Branch Line could be an independent third circuit, again with minimal disruption, but space by the tunnel may be too tight.

 

I've not shown the extra siding off P1.  I'm happy to agree with Chimer's observation that it is possible:

 

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

 

Can't see why not, you can have a trailing siding pretty well anywhere.

 

Again, it depends on your operating scheme.  In my mind P1 could be the principal platform for Up trains, as it bypassed the Branch junctions.  This would make it an unlikely place for a siding part way down - that might have been a better way for me to phrase it.  If you see it more as a loop, with the main line through P2, then a Siding is more likely - to fit the road access as you say.

 

It does sound to me you're looking more at the details now, and when it comes to MPD's (and mainline Goods Yards) I know I'm not the best to help, as I've indicated before, but I'll keep watching with interest.  Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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So the branch... What's it actually for? You've got your high level line for push-pull trains, and you could probably do a more convincing and interesting main station if the passenger junction aspect were removed. The factory for example could be on a branch of sorts, but without a passenger service. It could even be operated by a private industrial loco rather than the main line one.

 

And if you can share your turnout stock list, it might be possible to come up with a design which doesn't need lots of stuff to be bought and sold.

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14 hours ago, pgcroc said:

 

17_9_20.JPG

 

Hi Pete,

 

The branch line is very close to the main line in lots of places - so will it "read" as a branch line or just as another part of the main line infrastructure? It will share tunnel portals with the main line, for instance.

 

Operationally speaking, why is the engine shed at the end of the branch line? A tiny branch line wouldn't need a big engine shed. The through station might need one (if it were bigger) but the shed doesn't have a direct connection to the through station, even though it's adjacent to it.

 

I assume the Goods shed (GS?) is just a placeholder for something more developed but remember that the goods shed needs a yard and both of them need road access. You need to be able to back a lorry up to the shed doors.

 

Be careful not to put so many buildings in front of your railway that you can't see it.

 

How is the raised station building connected to the rest of the world? How do people get in and out?

 

Both your high level termini are very close to the back. Remember to leave room for some scenery behind them otherwise they will never look realistic. (Unless you cover them with train sheds!) Minimum: a few mils for a brick retaining wall but that would be extremely boring (and odd for a high level station). Maybe a platform, a low relief station building? Maybe something more fancy?

 

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3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

And if you can share your turnout stock list, it might be possible to come up with a design which doesn't need lots of stuff to be bought and sold.

image.png.0d95eb1628694db84e71d3abdb027612.png

 

Here you are Zomboid.

I have to go out for a couple of hours.

Will reply to all the recent posts on my return.

 

Cheers

Pete

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Hi again Guys

 

Sorry, been a bit pushed today with life.

 

I have read and reread the posts that arrived from last night.

 

It is obvious that I cannot change my layout to suit all of them, as good as they are.

 

I do not have time now to redraw and try to fall in line, as best as I can, with many of the suggestions given.

 

I am off to Chester early Sunday morning to see one of my daughters, Covid permitting of course. I will not be back until Tuesday evening. This will give all you guys a rest!

 

What I can tell you is that the blue siding from P1 has been scrubbed.

Also the tunnels will be deleted. Just need to make up a reason for my wife.

Most of the high level area at the top left will go as well, just leaving enough for my auto trains.

 

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

How is the raised station building connected to the rest of the world? How do people get in and out?

I had a road with a 5% slope going up to the high level terminal. Forgot to add the layer it was on to my posted plan. It will now be a road with a bridge over whatever lines are there. 

 

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I assume the Goods shed (GS?) is just a placeholder for something more developed but remember that the goods shed needs a yard and both of them need road access. You need to be able to back a lorry up to the shed doors.

This road also goes to the Goods Shed.

 

12 hours ago, Zomboid said:

So the branch... What's it actually for? You've got your high level line for push-pull trains, and you could probably do a more convincing and interesting main station if the passenger junction aspect were removed. The factory for example could be on a branch of sorts, but without a passenger service. It could even be operated by a private industrial loco rather than the main line one.

It was my impression that branch lines were connected to the main lines 'somewhere'.

It does not have to be a passenger line but then the access to the Factory/Industry needs to come from somewhere. Another road? Bridge with a bus on top?

 

23 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

This would also fit with the Scheme originally suggested by @Harlequin earlier on in the thread.

I have just copied this, turned it through 180 degrees and then mirrored it so I can look at it in relation to what I have. Had a quick stab at drawing it but did not finish it. The difficulty was, as it's a bit complicated, I did not know exactly what points to use, curved, wye, straight, slips........... a bit of trial and a lot of error! I will get there though.

 

On 17/09/2020 at 18:35, Chimer said:

Stepping back a bit and looking at the overall situation, my latest confusing suggestion would be to make the branch station a terminus - single platform, runround loop, 2 kickback goods sidings.  Ditch the pink and maroon tracks linking back to the main lines on the right hand side.  Have a trailing access to the loco depot and any goods facilities you want at the main station from the left hand end of P4.  That loses the need for any junction at the right hand end of the main station, and makes the branch believable.

Not sure I know what you mean here Chimer. Had to look up kickback sidings.

 

I will have to finish on that note.

Possibly a few days away from this may help.

 

Many thanks again, have a good weekend.

 

Cheers

Pete

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Pete, I hope you managed a good few days in Chester - the weather round here was decent last weekend, so I hope it was OK for yourselves - and I do hope everyone is safe and well in South Wales.

 

The planning for my own layout has been done and I've been preparing baseboards (there's just one final set of rather exciting updates for me to write up at some point), so I hope it's OK I had a play around with an idea inspired by your layout concept, which I'd like to share for anyone thinking about this type of design.

 

I like the Scheme you're developing, so I wanted to see what I might do using the Points you've listed as available and with the Scheme you've put forwards.  I'm not suggesting this is the best or even the only way of pulling it all together - but I found it interesting to have a go.  Personally I've found it encouraging when others have shared ideas in my threads, (and I could see if there were bits I liked and what I didn't fancy). This is just my idea:

 

pgcrocZ.jpg.54690c77af0cfc5ee364c058794e5202.jpg

 

Notes:

 

1.  I kept the 6-road Fiddle Yard: 3-Up, 3-Down and all Reversible.  As I think a typical 5-coach Steam-era train is about 60" long I shortened the sidings at the left to give me an extra scenic curve and more of a gap before the branch line (Note: my 30" Min. Rad. Mainline doesn't apply in the top left, where it is nearer 24").

 

With a limited number of curved points, I've still got the left-hand trailing crossover on the lift-out, which means some "wrong-line" running for trains that come into the Fiddle Yard as Down Trains and leave going Up, but changes to the Junctions (note 3) mean few trains will do this.

 

2.  I like the idea of an urban Branch Line to an "out-of-town" industry: it reminds me of a line from Derby to Sinfin that ran Services to the huge Rolls-Royce factories where I once worked.  I'm a fan of continuous runs so I didn't need a terminus, just a small "Workers' Halt" for passengers.  I've not actually modelled an industry - it's assumed to be in the Operating Well (so it can change from time to time :)).  I've just shown the Exchange Sidings, with an Engine Shed for an industrial loco.  These sidings use the Medium LH points with tighter radii.

 

3.  I did like the idea of a junction at the left end of the Station, but to avoid slip points or crossings mine is at the right hand end and uses the points in the trailing crossover.  Branch trains use Platform 4 and the junction to get to and from the right hand end of the Fiddle Yard - where they can reverse and return easily.

 

4.  At the Station, Platform 1 is for prestigious Up Trains to London.  By realigning the Left Hand end, their arrival is straight.  The small business under the arches are probably now in the top right corner.  Platform 3 is only just long enough, but I have got the run-round beyond the platforms (it will be used by trains in P2 and P3).

 

I've separated the Goods Yard and the Small MPD, although both run off the same run-round loop (a compromise that keeps them off the running lines).  There's not a lot of shunting, but it is all at the front.  By straightening the platforms, I have more room for the Goods Yard and MPD, but less scenic space at the back.  The Goods Shed siding is 36" long (and straight), and the other two Goods Sidings are 29" long.  The MPD is a smaller "sub-shed" so doesn't have all the facilities - I used the same Hornby Turntable in your photos.

 

5.  I added a crossover to the simple Stations at each end of the high line so more complex operation could be included if wanted - they might never be needed, but are easier to install during the build phase.  At the right hand side the line is close to the lower mainlines, but this might be where I'd put the Mainlines into a tunnel?

 

I don't normally try designing complete layouts this big, so it was fun to do.  As I said above, I hope you don't mind: there's no expectation any of this will influence your own thinking, but if I ever get a garage...

 

Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Hi Keith

Yes, Chester was good. Nice to see daughter and granddaughter again. Weather was excellent.

As you probably know, Cardiff is now in lockdown. I live in the Vale of Glamorgan so am not affected yet! But I think it's coming this week.:ireful:

 

14 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I don't normally try designing complete layouts this big, so it was fun to do.  As I said above, I hope you don't mind: there's no expectation any of this will influence your own thinking, but if I ever get a garage...

 

Of course I don't mind. It is very kind of you to take the time and trouble to do this. As I said initially, I know nothing about how a real railway works. That's why it is difficult for me to sometimes understand things.

 

What you have done is very good - I'm impressed! :good:

 

I will print this out and give it some serious thought.

You have even put space for a couple of tunnels at the bottom left. SWMBO will be happy.

 

At first glance I am not sure about the high level automatic train line with the extra loops near each station. I know my MERG kit can handle a siding at each station so 2 trains, (railcar and a small loco with a carriage), can take turns on it , automatically changing the points. Not sure about the extra points. I will have to investigate.

 

I am not against buying more points if required. 

 

I will draw this up in SCARM as soon as I can. (F1, MotoGP and the ironing beckons today).

I assume you are using Anyrail, (which I have a licence for).

 

Once again, many thanks.

Cheers

Pete

 

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3 hours ago, pgcroc said:

Hi Keith

Yes, Chester was good. Nice to see daughter and granddaughter again. Weather was excellent.

As you probably know, Cardiff is now in lockdown. I live in the Vale of Glamorgan so am not affected yet! But I think it's coming this week.:ireful:

 

 

Of course I don't mind. It is very kind of you to take the time and trouble to do this. As I said initially, I know nothing about how a real railway works. That's why it is difficult for me to sometimes understand things.

 

What you have done is very good - I'm impressed! :good:

 

I will print this out and give it some serious thought.

You have even put space for a couple of tunnels at the bottom left. SWMBO will be happy.

 

At first glance I am not sure about the high level automatic train line with the extra loops near each station. I know my MERG kit can handle a siding at each station so 2 trains, (railcar and a small loco with a carriage), can take turns on it , automatically changing the points. Not sure about the extra points. I will have to investigate.

 

I am not against buying more points if required. 

 

I will draw this up in SCARM as soon as I can. (F1, MotoGP and the ironing beckons today).

I assume you are using Anyrail, (which I have a licence for).

 

Once again, many thanks.

Cheers

Pete

 


Thanks Pete for your kind words in response to my doodling.  Yes - it is in Anyrail so the track libraries should be the same.  One word of warning - as I was just drawing this out of interest, I didn’t try and mark in where the baseboard supports are so they could well turn out to be under all the points!  Just something to be wary of if redrawing properly.  Thanks, Keith.

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I like the idea. I think rather than having the branch as a continuous run, I would only have it running round the right hand end to the industry and terminating there. A workers halt is a good idea, and provides an excuse to run a "paddy train" of those Hattons genesis coaches or something similar.

 

The high level branch is a bit improbable, but I guess it provides somewhere to run push pull trains and the like without using up space on the main line, which with only the 3 loops in each direction might turn out to be a little restrictive.

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I think Keith's design ticks most of Pete's boxes.  Perhaps the crossover on the lift-out section allowing loops 1, 2 and 3 across to the outer circuit would be better done using two curved points on the 90 degree turn near the "1" label, to keep it out of the scenic area and simplify the lift out wiring?

 

But I agree with Zomboid about the branch.  Given that it's all out in the open, seeing it as a circle wrecks the necessary suspension of belief which hiding the main line storage loops allows.  Don't mind whether it comes down the left-hand side or the right, but it needs to terminate.  Or you could do two separate branches, but that would need a hidden branch fiddleyard instead of the industrial scene on the lower board, which definitely unticks one box.

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If I may, a couple of points (sorry) arising from Kieth’s very good continuous run design, hopefully taken as comment or at least constructive criticism... Firstly, I cannot see a reason for the trailing crossover between the up and down mains at the left hand end.  This is an opportunity to save the cost of a pair of turnouts and motors, and spend the money saved on wagons. 
 

I don’t like the common headshunt/access road shared by the goods yard and the loco shed, and doubt that the Board of Trade inspector would have either.  The goods yard’s and the shed’s movements are under the direction and authority of different foremen, and a lot of telephone time will be taken between them to avoid conflicting movements on this stretch, and don’t forget the goods yard pilot driver’s attention will be on the man on the ground in the yard giving him hand signals, not on traffic coming off shed; the whole thing looks like a collision biding it’s time to my mind. 
 

I’m not a fan of turntables located like this either, with the running lines curving around behind them.  Visually, they accentuate the sharpness of the curve at top right.  Like Zomboid (all praise to the Hypnotoad), I’m uneasy about the high level shuttle business, disconnected from the rest of the system, but I differ from him with respect to the continuous loop branch with the worker’s halt.  ‘Paddy’ trains are different from workmen’s passenger services, which run under the regulations of any passenger train (absolute block, FPLs, full automatic brakes).  A Paddy runs within the confines of a private system and is not governed by such regulations; it is not permitted on running lines. 
 

The problems, IM very HO, are to do with the loco shed and the space taken by the high level.  If t’were me, I’d scrap the high level, which is going to be a bit of a poor relation in practice anyway, and use the space released in either the top left or top right corners ( or both) for the loco shed; top right has more room but you have to stretch a bit across the goods yard.  It could be accessed from a loop behind platform 1, a use for the turnouts saved from the left hand end xover. 

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In Keith's plan it's very difficult for mainline goods traffic to get into or out of the goods yard. It requires shuffling backwards and forwards using the branchline as a headshunt.

 

The curves in the top left corner are the tightest in the plan, the most likely to need to be hidden, but the proximity of the TT makes that very difficult to do.

 

And I agree with the others that the high level track really looks superfluous.

 

Going back a few weeks, I posted this:

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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

If I may, a couple of points (sorry) arising from Kieth’s very good continuous run design, hopefully taken as comment or at least constructive criticism... Firstly, I cannot see a reason for the trailing crossover between the up and down mains at the left hand end.  This is an opportunity to save the cost of a pair of turnouts and motors, and spend the money saved on wagons. 
 

I don’t like the common headshunt/access road shared by the goods yard and the loco shed, and doubt that the Board of Trade inspector would have either.  The goods yard’s and the shed’s movements are under the direction and authority of different foremen, and a lot of telephone time will be taken between them to avoid conflicting movements on this stretch, and don’t forget the goods yard pilot driver’s attention will be on the man on the ground in the yard giving him hand signals, not on traffic coming off shed; the whole thing looks like a collision biding it’s time to my mind. 


Perfectly fair comment about the common access to the Goods Sidings and Loco Shed, thank you - I noted it as a compromise: the explanation on the operating practices is really helpful in this respect.  I’m sure it’d be quite easy to separate them, possibly using up the extra points I put into the high level stations to create separate loops?

 

The trailing crossover at the left is to allow trains to terminate and reverse in either direction from the Fiddle Yard, something I picked up from Pete’s design scheme for operation.  It would be better closer to the storage loops, as @Chimer notes.

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Gentlemen

 

It seems to be the general consensus of most of you to scrub the high level line.

Consider it scrubbed. :) I just thought it would be a fun thing to have trains going backwards/forwards automatically.

 

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

I think Keith's design ticks most of Pete's boxes.  Perhaps the crossover on the lift-out section allowing loops 1, 2 and 3 across to the outer circuit would be better done using two curved points on the 90 degree turn near the "1" label, to keep it out of the scenic area and simplify the lift out wiring?

 

I did wonder to myself why these trailing points were there on the lift out section. There are trailing points in the bottom right of the storage sidings that, to me, do the same thing. Perhaps I am missing something?

Do they have to be anywhere else on the track as @Chimer suggests?

 

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The problems, IM very HO, are to do with the loco shed and the space taken by the high level.  If t’were me, I’d scrap the high level, which is going to be a bit of a poor relation in practice anyway, and use the space released in either the top left or top right corners ( or both) for the loco shed; top right has more room but you have to stretch a bit across the goods yard.  It could be accessed from a loop behind platform 1, a use for the turnouts saved from the left hand end xover. 

 

I am OK with this TJ. Maybe the TT can go there as well. You are obviously well versed in railway practices so I bow to your knowledge.

 

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Going back a few weeks, I posted this:

 

I  always look at all the suggestions I receive. To be very honest this looked very simplistic. Hope you are not offended.

 

I am down to 2 main lines running and would like some shunting 'action somewhere'. Looking at videos, books and pictures there are some very good designs out there but most of them are very small layouts which only contain that or large ones that would not fit on my boards.

 

Is it worth only having one main platform? Been looking at this.

 

Perhaps I want too much at the moment, but it's just because I will never do another layout.

Maybe there is a way to do something of interest that lends itself to expansion in the future?

 

If it has to be completely redesigned from scratch I would happily (?) do it. 

 

Cheers

Pete

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

In Keith's plan it's very difficult for mainline goods traffic to get into or out of the goods yard. It requires shuffling backwards and forwards using the branchline as a headshunt.

 

The curves in the top left corner are the tightest in the plan, the most likely to need to be hidden, but the proximity of the TT makes that very difficult to do.

 

And I agree with the others that the high level track really looks superfluous.

 

Going back a few weeks, I posted this:


Good point about shunting mainline Goods - my assumption is most shunting is for branch related traffic so I didn’t major on that area.  If it is a priority I’d agree my sketch has a weakness in this respect.

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18 minutes ago, pgcroc said:

Gentlemen

 

It seems to be the general consensus of most of you to scrub the high level line.

Consider it scrubbed. :) I just thought it would be a fun thing to have trains going backwards/forwards automatically.

 

 

I did wonder to myself why these trailing points were there on the lift out section. There are trailing points in the bottom right of the storage sidings that, to me, do the same thing. Perhaps I am missing something?

Do they have to be anywhere else on the track as @Chimer suggests?

 

 

I am OK with this TJ. Maybe the TT can go there as well. You are obviously well versed in railway practices so I bow to your knowledge.

 

 

I  always look at all the suggestions I receive. To be very honest this looked very simplistic. Hope you are not offended.

 

I am down to 2 main lines running and would like some shunting 'action somewhere'. Looking at videos, books and pictures there are some very good designs out there but most of them are very small layouts which only contain that or large ones that would not fit on my boards.

 

Is it worth only having one main platform? Been looking at this.

 

Perhaps I want too much at the moment, but it's just because I will never do another layout.

Maybe there is a way to do something of interest that lends itself to expansion in the future?

 

If it has to be completely redesigned from scratch I would happily (?) do it. 

 

Cheers

Pete

 

 

 

 

Hi Pete,

 

No offence taken, that was just a sketch showing what I thought might be a neat arrangement in broad terms. I didn't put any details on but you can see how Keith's detailed plan is broadly similar and they could perhaps be melded together.

 

You aren't asking too much and stick to your guns on a through station with more than 2 platforms.

 

Regarding the high level line: That would be much more satisfying (IMHO) if it had a connection with the rest of the layout. Yes, that means a gradient but fear not - you've got the space to do it easily and reliably. Maybe that is where your future expansion could be focused. Plan in a gradient to a high level station now but build it after you've got the basic layout working.

 

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43 minutes ago, pgcroc said:

I did wonder to myself why these trailing points were there on the lift out section. There are trailing points in the bottom right of the storage sidings that, to me, do the same thing. Perhaps I am missing something?

Do they have to be anywhere else on the track as @Chimer suggests?

 

 

They are there so a train originally running anti-clockwise (inner circuit) can run into loop 1, 2 or 3, have its loco fiddled to the other end (unless it's a D/EMU), then run out the way it came and over the crossover onto the clockwise circuit before coming back into view.  Using the crossover bottom right to achieve that requires you to reverse the reassembled train out past the crossover, so its in full view, before pulling forward over the crossover going the way you want it to.  And you would need one of loops 4, 5 or 6 to be clear as well.

 

Obviously the bottom right crossover enables the reverse operation - clockwise train into loop 4, 5 or 6, fiddle, out via the crossover onto the anti-clockwise circuit.  So to be able to reverse trains effectively in your storage loops, you need both crossovers as part of the semi-hidden system.  Or use one of the many other early suggestions which had a couple of reversible roads between the up and down loops ...... Or forget about reversing and bin both crossovers (but that's the point we started this discussion from iirc).

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If the high level line is gone, I'd straight away move the engine shed over to the top right (locos shouldn't need to much access as they shouldn't be coupled much), and then there's more space for a better goods yard/ exchange sidings on the inside.

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3 hours ago, Chimer said:

I think Keith's design ticks most of Pete's boxes.  Perhaps the crossover on the lift-out section allowing loops 1, 2 and 3 across to the outer circuit would be better done using two curved points on the 90 degree turn near the "1" label, to keep it out of the scenic area and simplify the lift out wiring?.


Agreed - as I was really drawing for fun, one of the constraints I gave myself was to stick to the list of Points Pete already has, which doesn’t currently include many curved points.  Pete has indicated he’d buy more if needed and changing this crossover to curved points might be the first thing I’d do.  It’d mean reworking the curve to fit the long Curved points, but would be worth looking at.

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Hi Guys

 

36 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

You aren't asking too much and stick to your guns on a through station with more than 2 platforms.

 

Regarding the high level line: That would be much more satisfying (IMHO) if it had a connection with the rest of the layout. Yes, that means a gradient but fear not - you've got the space to do it easily and reliably. Maybe that is where your future expansion could be focused. Plan in a gradient to a high level station now but build it after you've got the basic layout working.

Believe it or not but one of my earlier 'designs' had a high level station in the top left corner with 2 tracks running down and eventually coming to baseboard level about a third of the way west of the east wall! It got a bit complicated then to get up and down from the stations I had so gave up on it.

 

27 minutes ago, Chimer said:

They are there so a train originally running anti-clockwise (inner circuit) can run into loop 1, 2 or 3, have its loco fiddled to the other end (unless it's a D/EMU), then run out the way it came and over the crossover onto the clockwise circuit before coming back into view.  Using the crossover bottom right to achieve that requires you to reverse the reassembled train out past the crossover, so its in full view, before pulling forward over the crossover going the way you want it to.  And you would need one of loops 4, 5 or 6 to be clear as well.

Thanks for the explanation Chimer. I shall leave them in, but see what I have asked below.

 

13 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

If the high level line is gone, I'd straight away move the engine shed over to the top right (locos shouldn't need to much access as they shouldn't be coupled much), and then there's more space for a better goods yard/ exchange sidings on the inside.

I'm OK with that Zomboid.

 

12 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

The separate High Level Line would perhaps work if Pete wanted an automated tram line running through the town - given that we’re looking at a High Level station building across the tracks (not shown on my sketch, but discussed previously)?

Keith, you have put a lot of time in on this, but I never thought about throwing a tram into the mix. On the other hand....................... !

 

So to sum up:

I keep both the platforms.

The high level automated line is scrubbed.

I leave the points, (maybe move the ones on the lift up), and storage tracks at the south side as they are.

Look at moving the engine shed to the top right. But wouldn't the TT be near the engine shed? Together with water, coal, ash..? Not a lot of room for all that, or is it OK to have the TT and all the rest elsewhere?

I leave room for 'something' to run down from a high level station terminus/tram terminus at a later date. If it is a train track it needs to connect to the main lines. 

What have I missed?

 

I never thought this was going to be so difficult and complicated.

This is enough to turn a man to drink.

 

Cheers

Pete

 

 

 

 

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The TT and so on would be with the shed wherever that is. So I'd have the whole lot top right personally. Without trying it I reckon there's space for something laid out the same kind of way as nine elms was.

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