Intercity western region mk2 sets

[125_driver]

Interesting conclusion to draw, I must admit that I had suspected by this time XC sets could be used on these workings and from your deductions it does look like a distinct possibility.! Many thanks again for all your help and assistance!

[MJI]

That is a huge change in a couple of years.

[bigP]

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Edited February 1, 2021 by bigP
Deleted

[125_driver]

On 13/06/2020 at 15:54, Bomag said:

 

I this period XC Mk2 aircon were allocated to Glasgow (PC), Edinburgh (EC), Longsight  (MA), Wolverhampton (OY) and Derby (DY). WR would have serviced XC sets overnight but maintenance and higher exams were done by Midland and Scottish depots - they did the bulk of MK2 aircons at the time so it made sense to concentrate the work.

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I'm trying to establish whether in the late 80s any XC mk2s were allocated to WR depots. From this thread it is clear that by 1990 the xc mk2s were allocated "up north" but does anyone who maybe has a platform 5 book or knowledge of the time know if the western had any MK2 IC stock around 1987 to 1990??

Thanks...

[Bomag]

4 hours ago, 125_driver said:

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I'm trying to establish whether in the late 80s any XC mk2s were allocated to WR depots. From this thread it is clear that by 1990 the xc mk2s were allocated "up north" but does anyone who maybe has a platform 5 book or knowledge of the time know if the western had any MK2 IC stock around 1987 to 1990??

Thanks...

 

 P5 only had sector codes from 1988. There were no ICCX allocated Mk2 aircons at WR depots in 1988. Looking at ICCX Mk2e stock in 1988 there were several which had been allocated to CF and PZ in 1987 (about 4 or 5 sets). However, there was quite a significant change in depots for ICCX, IWCX and IWRX coaches at the same time so there is no indication the the CF and PZ allocated stock in 1987 were used on Cross Country services.

[brushman47544]

9 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

 P5 only had sector codes from 1988. There were no ICCX allocated Mk2 aircons at WR depots in 1988. Looking at ICCX Mk2e stock in 1988 there were several which had been allocated to CF and PZ in 1987 (about 4 or 5 sets). However, there was quite a significant change in depots for ICCX, IWCX and IWRX coaches at the same time so there is no indication the the CF and PZ allocated stock in 1987 were used on Cross Country services.

 

I only have access to a 1996 P5 Combine, so a bit late. But it does include depot allocations, so I wonder how many years they were omitted? Not many I would think. That 1996 version lists some Mk2e as IWR DY (Derby) and some non WR ones as PC (Polmadie)

[Bomag]

1 minute ago, brushman47544 said:

 

I only have access to a 1996 P5 Combine, so a bit late. But it does include depot allocations, so I wonder how many years they were omitted? Not many I would think. That 1996 version lists some Mk2e as IWR DY (Derby) and some non WR ones as PC (Polmadie)

 

P5 combined always had depot allocations for coaches from when BR changed from regional allocations (1984ish). It was sector codes that were introduced in 1988.

[brushman47544]

21 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

P5 combined always had depot allocations for coaches from when BR changed from regional allocations (1984ish). It was sector codes that were introduced in 1988.

 

Thanks. I misunderstood your comment

10 hours ago, Bomag said:

P5 only had sector codes from 1988.

 

as meaning no depot allocations, just sector codes.

[keefer]

The 1988 ICCX allocations are mainly PC and MA

[Bomag]

9 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

 

Thanks. I misunderstood your comment

 

as meaning no depot allocations, just sector codes.

 

That Shirley would have been 'P5 had sector codes only from 1988'; as I am dyslexic I sometimes have difficulties with other's use of English.

[Global]

On 13/06/2020 at 09:04, bigP said:

 

 

No, it’s a set of coaching stock.

 

OM290 is Old Oak set 290.

LL925 is (Liverpool) Edge Hill set 925.

etc etc etc.

 

The stock set would then have been allocated to a turn/diagram.

 

Above you you can also see things like LA008, PM025. - these are HST sets, which had been fixed allocations of vehicles for a while. The P5 books often have the make up of HST sets listed.

 

The L/H stock however, would have started off as just a allocation of types in the set, eg TSO TSO BSK FO, without specific vehicles (ie number) allocated to each set. You can see the codes of the types allocated to the set given in the station workings...  3 AC21 AB21 etc etc.  

The actual individual vehicles in the set would have chopped and changed over time, due faults and maintenance etc.  Obviously someone somewhere kept track of which vehicles were in which set, but the allocation wasn’t necessarily permanent.

 

At some point these sets would have become permanently fixed with specific vehicles allocated to each set, and then maintenance spare sets allocated to the depot, themselves a fixed allocation of vehicles.  Plus some other spare vehicles.

 

BR did this for maintenance costs, amongst other reasons.  With certain maintenance being done based on time interval, others on mileage, vehicles were grouped together as close as possible in terms of exam dates.  Once formed, if one vehicle in the set was tech, the whole set was tech, and a maintenance spare set would have to go out.  

This meant:

  Sets were maintained as a group, each vehicle then obviously worked the same mileage and time between exams.

  Higher authorisation was needed to swap out a single vehicle in the set.

  This in effect saved time and money by no more endless shunting around of stock each night because one vehicle  in a set had a VIBT due or something.

 

Intercity West Coast went for this big time at the beginning of 1990.  Somewhere I’ve got a list of the make up of each west coast set when this was implemented, depot by depot, inc maintenance sets and spares.

 

No idea when IC Western adopted this principle however. Would love to know for definite, and to see the allocations, but think it is around 1991/2.  There was a lot of chop and range of LH stock between regions between May 90 and Summer 91, so would have been a nightmare if it was in effect on the Western at that time.

 

Paul

Sorry to disagree but I’m pretty sure you’ll find that those are the diagram numbers or possibly called circuit working numbers - but they’re not individual set or formation numbers. 
 

If, as you say, they were the actual set numbers that would mean the same set allocated to the same journey every day as printed in that book -which is highly unlikely. It may happen on a couple of working but certainly not on a fleet like the HST where sets would often end up at a different location to where they started.

 

As an example LL925 in principle would be worked by a set of LL based stock in the formation shown, then depending on where it ended up the following day it could work LL926 and so on. 
 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Global