Thinning Phoenix paint ...help requested

[rob D2]

Hi,

ive had great success with my elcheapo airbrush AS18, with railmatch and tamiya acrylics .

 

i’ve got some specific rail colours from Phoenix I want to use but I can’t seem to get them to spray well. I’m using PQ8 thinners, not the -9 air drying version - is that the problem ?

[warbonnetuk]

What exactly are the problems you're getting?

[Chris Turnbull]

Phoenix do recommend that you use PQ8 for thinning brush applied paints, PQ9 for spraying paints and PQ10 for spraying varnishes.  I don't know the technical differences but I use PQ9 and 10 thinners and have yet to have a problem.  Please note that the paints do have to be well thinned, trial and error being my method.  I mix in, say, 20 per cent thinners to start with and then add more until it flows nicely.  You can always add more but you can't take it out.   I have a Badger airbrush fed from a compressor.

 

Chris Turnbull  

[rob D2]

I can’t seem to stop the random splattering - the odd lumps. I’ve tried thinning more and I’ve tried turning the pressure down ( which isn’t exactly accurate with a cheap compressor )

[Mick Bonwick]

Odd lumps have two main causes. Paint that has not been mixed completely and paint that has started to dry inside the airbrush. Even with cheap airbrushes it only needs there to be a minute speck of unmixed pigment to cause splattering. If you have a motorised mixer then that is probably the least laborious method of thoroughly mixing paint, if not then you'll need to spend a long time mixing. To be absolutely sure there are no lumps entering the airbrush you could filter the thinned paint through some muslin before putting it in the cup, but that can get messy. To minimise the paint drying inside the airbrush, flush through regularly with white sprirt (it's cheaper than Phoenix thinners).

 

P.S. Turning the pressure down will introduce splattering rather than get rid of it.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Mick Bonwick
Adding the P.S.

[Torper]

I use Phoenix Paints in my airbrush and usually achieve good results at about 15psi.  The OP has been using acrylics up until now and I wonder if he's thinning the anamels enough?  It's not enough to add thinner, you've got add enough thinner, probably more than you would with acrylics.  I've used Phoenix and Humbrol thinners, and white spirit (not all at the same time!), and there doesn't appear to be much difference between them although I probably use one of the proprietary thinners if I'm painting something important.  Put some paint in a mixing jar and start adding thinners drop by drop, ideally using a pipette.  Stir ever now and again and when you've got it to the consistency of milk (semi-skimmed, I reckon!) and it falls freely in blobs (not a steady stream - that would be too thin) from your stirring device it should be ready. As for mixing paints, even in the standard tinlets, I use a thin bit of rod, bent over at the end, in my DIY Parkside drill, and a quick burst of power usually disperses any lumps that may be lurking in the tin.  Hold onto the tinlet tightly, though, as otherwise you may end up with paint all over the room!

 

DT

Edited June 13, 2020 by Torper

[rob D2]

I’ll try again . I’m only trying to do some white roof VDAs with it - should have just got another can of Halfords white primer !

[Chris Turnbull]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I’ll try again . I’m only trying to do some white roof VDAs with it - should have just got another can of Halfords white primer !

 

Halfords white primer?  Wonderful stuff.  This is painted with a spray can of that.

 

 

Chris Turnbull

[ianLMS]

I use Pheonix paint through my airbrush and always use the PQ9 without any issues. I have a Sparmax 4 airbrush and use about a 60/40 paint to thinner ratio and spray around 20psi.

 

I also have an el cheapo ebay special airbrush and regularly have issues with splattering regardless of whether i use acrylic or enamel. Usually needs a full strip down, soak in Premi air liquid reamer followed by a few minutes in the ultrasonic bath and the nozzle cleaning out properly. 

[rob D2]

I think I’ll ask Phoenix if it’s the 8 thinners rather than 9 causing issues 

[Torper]

Have you tried using any thinners other than the Phoenix ones?  I've been using PQ9, but I've also sprayed Phoenix paint using Humbrol thinners without any problems - to be frank, I'm not all that convinced by the necessity of different thinners for different tasks.  So I'd suggest that you first try using a different thinner - white spirit will do if you haven't anything else.  Try that using a scrap bit of primed  material as your target rather than something nice!  If the problem persists, and you're thinning the paint as suggested, then it must be either the paint itself, which seems unlikely as Phoenix tend to be pretty reliable, or your elcheapo airbrush.  To whittle it down further, then try a different enamel paint and see what result you get.  If it still spatters then I  fear it must be your airbrush.  What IanLMS says above seems pretty relevant.

 

DT

[rob D2]

Thanks for all the comments.

i have a white stripe to do on a 31 so I’ll be getting it all out next week, and will see what I come up with 

[NickL2008]

On 19/06/2020 at 09:30, Torper said:

Have you tried using any thinners other than the Phoenix ones?  I've been using PQ9, but I've also sprayed Phoenix paint using Humbrol thinners without any problems - to be frank, I'm not all that convinced by the necessity of different thinners for different tasks.  So I'd suggest that you first try using a different thinner - white spirit will do if you haven't anything else.  Try that using a scrap bit of primed  material as your target rather than something nice!  If the problem persists, and you're thinning the paint as suggested, then it must be either the paint itself, which seems unlikely as Phoenix tend to be pretty reliable, or your elcheapo airbrush.  To whittle it down further, then try a different enamel paint and see what result you get.  If it still spatters then I  fear it must be your airbrush.  What IanLMS says above seems pretty relevant.

 

DT

 

Likewise, when my Pheonix thinners have run out and I need to spray one of their paints, ive found that Humbrols' thinners work just as well. I usually find as well that blockages no matter how big or small can cause problems, I always use Airbrush cleaner along with the "back / forward flushing technique/s" which gets rid of any dried paint, as not forgetting the nozzle which covers the needle when the atomised paint is released is only a few millimeters in diameter

 

NL 

[Guy Rixon]

Using the PQ9 thinners is supposed to make the paint dry more quickly. My tactic for de-splattering Precision enamels is to thin them a bit more than 60/40, then spray at at about 25 PSI (c.f. 15-20 PSI for acrylics) and at a greater distance. The higher pressure is supposed to improve the atomisation; I think it works. The quicker drying deters the over-thinned paint from sagging and running. The greater distance reduces the chance of flooding the model.

 

All that worked fine until two days ago when it didn't and a model got ruined by spatter; much cursing. On inspection, the nozzle was firstly bunged up with traces of the enamel paint that hadn't been cleaned out properly --- my cleaning regime is tuned for acrylics --- and secondly had split at the tip. Nothing will work reliably when the nozzle is FUBAR, so I replaced it.

[rob D2]

I had a lot of trouble with the thinner, but the BR coach grey was OK when thinned to their instructions