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NIR Mk2 Loco Hauled Stock


Darius43
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Hello,

 

I’m contemplating building a rake of NIR “Enterprise” coaches from the 1980s in the grey with blue stripe livery.  I know that these coaches were Mk2b/c but can anyone tell me what types of coach (e.g. TSO etc.) made up the rakes?

 

All help with this greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in anticipation 

 

Darius

 

 

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Hi Darius

 

According to 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' (Midland Publishing ISBN 185780175X),

the following Mk2's ran in Northern Ireland:

 

1970; 8 modified Mk2B's.  1x Open First; 4 x Open Seconds; 1 x Catering car & 2 x Second class driving/brake trailers. (Used with the Hunslet Bo-Bo's)

 

1972; 5 Mk2C's. 1 x First class driving trailer & 4 x Open Seconds.

 

1980; 12 Mk2B's.  2 x Brake Firsts.  These were converted into Brake Standard generator vans. 10 x Open Firsts, these were reclassified as Standard class.

 

1982; 1 x Mk2F Dining Car.

 

Some were ex BR & some were newly built by Derby for NIR, but I haven't been able to locate former BR numbers for them.

 

Hope this helps

 

Moxy

 

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1 hour ago, Darius43 said:

Hello,

 

I’m contemplating building a rake of NIR “Enterprise” coaches from the 1980s in the grey with blue stripe livery.  I know that these coaches were Mk2b/c but can anyone tell me what types of coach (e.g. TSO etc.) made up the rakes?

 

All help with this greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in anticipation 

 

Darius

 

 

Any particular year?

 

The original fleet built for use in push-pull with the Hunslets did have a "normal" winter and summer formation. When more stock was procured ex-BR in the 1980s and the switch was made to conventional haulage with 111s the wide range of stock seems to have produced a wide variety of formations and it may have been like CIE that sets were made up as required rather than to specific booked formations.

 

If I have a year or a range of I can look up the exact fleet for you, many vehicles changed seating arrangements during the 1980s to say nothing of the extra stock acquired.

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1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

If I have a year or a range of I can look up the exact fleet for you, many vehicles changed seating arrangements during the 1980s to say nothing of the extra stock acquired.


Thanks Hexagon789.

 

I’m thinking 1980-81.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

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I'm trying to put a set of these together to.

I have seen pictures of a rake with two brake firsts, so would one be the brake coach

and the other the generator coach?

Also i have seen pic's were the tail coach is not a driving trailer, so did some trains

not have a driving trailer?

Also did all trains have a Dining car? 

I would like to know the running numbers for this stock if anyone would like to share this

it would be a great help.

 

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NIR did not have any pure Brake coaches. Any Brake coaches would either be Brake Generator coaches or Driving Trailers. Easy to identify each type. Brake Generators had only three large windows on each side, whereas the Driving Trailers had four. If you can see the roof, the Brake Generators had exhaust silencers above the generator compartment, the Driving Trailers had nothing above the Brake compartment.

Driving Trailers were only used with the Hunslet locos, although they did occasionally appear on 111 Class hauled trains, but not as Driving Trailers as the 111 Class were not push/pull fitted. There were three of them originally, but one was converted to an 80 Class Driving Trailer after the 111 Class took over the Enterprise services.

Brake Generators were not required on Hunslet powered push/pull trains as the Hunslets were fitted with generators for train heating and lighting. The 111 Class were not fitted with generators, hence the need for generator coaches for train heating and lighting.

NIR had three catering vehicles. Two were full catering vehicles which would have been used on Enterprise services, and the third was a Miniature Buffet with one compartment converted for that purpose.

I will dig out a list of all NIR Mk 2 loco hauled stock and post it, unless someone else does it first.   

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NIR generator brakes saw a change of equipment early sets had two silencer barrels in a cut out in roof , this was later changed and had a single squarer type.  numbers change abit with 8xx for 3 pipe and pushpull with hunlets  and 9xx when converted to  2 pipe hauled . One Driving trailer brake got subsumed into the class 80 fleet and a couple of the later MK2c secondhands got converted as argumentation trailers to get all 2 car into 3car sets - easily visible as no middle door and end doors were wrap rounds.  A further pair of ex 9xx ended up as driver trailers converted in Scotland IIRC.- again no middle door and variation in passenger door and windows behind cab.   The last of the MK2b was the gen car for the mK2s ex Gatwick.

 

Catering cars were 546 and 547  one specially built one a conversion and in time NIR bought in the coach built to be a trail of the APT buffet -this now back in UK and on steam specials (well should be anyway! )

 

Railtec do a good range of transfers . Lima do most of the stock - but need new wheels if nothing else and I have used the  vaccumm formed flush glazing packs but I expect bits from Shawplan and flush glazing will give a much better result. 

Robert     

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Hi Robert,

 

The Lima coach windows are a bit heavy and thick for my liking.  OK for placing etched sides against but too chunky on their own.

 

Bachmann Mk2s would be perfect but they are M2a’s not Mk2b/c so I plan to use Southern Pride Mk2b kits and Railtec transfers.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

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Some coaches were renumbered over time following various conversions. Old numbers are in brackets.

Some coaches were converted for use as 80 Class trailers.

The information below is as printed in various publications.

 

NUMBER          NEW   Ex BR  TYPE  COACH TYPE            BR No.            REMARKS

546                                1982    Mk 2F  Grill/Bar/Dining Car   5970                Air Conditioned

547                    1969                Mk 2B Grill/Bar/Dining Car

548 (821)          1969                Mk 2B Buffet Standard                                    Push/Pull Fitted

811                    1969                Mk 2B Driving Brake Standard                       Conv to 80 Class 1988

824                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

826                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

827                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

828                    1969                Mk 2B Open Standard                         Conv to 80 Class 1984

901 (801)          1969                Mk 2B Open First                                           Push/Pull Fitted

902                                1981    Mk 2B Corridor First              13509

903                                1983    Mk 2C Open First                   3166

904                                1988    Mk 2F  Open First                   3367                Air Conditioned

911                                1981    Mk 2B Brake Std Gen Van      14104              Open Plan Seats 1988

912                                1981    Mk 2B Brake First Gen Van    14108              Open Plan Seats 1989

913                                1981    Mk 2B Brake Exec Gen Van   14111              Executive Veh 1989

914                                1983    Mk 2B Brake Std Gen Van      14110              Open Plan Seats 1988

915                                1983    Mk 2B Brake Std Gen Van      14106              Open Plan Seats 1989

916 (812)                                  Mk 2B Driving Brake Standard                      Push/Pull Fitted

917 (813)          1969                Mk 2C Driving Brake First                             Push/Pull Fitted

921**                            1981    Mk 2B Open Standard *          13490              Ex BR Corridor First

922**                            1981    Mk 2B Corridor Standard       13495              Ex BR Corridor First

923**                            1981    Mk 2B Open Standard *          13496              Ex BR Corridor First

924**                            1981    Mk 2B Open Standard*           13508              Ex BR Corridor First

925                                1981    Mk 2B Open Standard*           13503              Ex BR Corridor First

926                                1981    Mk 2B Open Standard *          13498              Ex BR Corridor First

927                                1981    Mk 2B Open Standard*           13506              Ex BR Corridor First

928                                1981    Mk 2B Corridor Standard       13510              Ex BR Corridor First

930                                1981    Mk 2C Open Standard             5573

931                                1981    Mk 2C Open Standard             5531

932 (825)          1969                Mk 2C Open Standard                                     Push/Pull Fitted

933 (929)                      1981    Mk 2C Open Standard 5577

934 (822)          1969                Mk 2B Standard                                              Push/Pull Fitted

935 (823)          1969                Mk 2B Standard                                              Push/Pull Fitted

 

 

*    Converted to open plan seating 1988-89.

**  Push/Pull Fitted.

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The original NIR Enterprise service that commenced in July 1970, my era, had the 3 Hunslet locomotives, buffet car 547, first open 801, driving brake standard opens 811 and 812 and 4 standard opens 821-824. The intention was to run an 8 coach summer service with a Hunslet top and tailing and the other Hunslet in reserve. The winter formation was meant to normally consist of 1 Hunslet with 5 coaches in push/ pull fashion.

Unfortunately, the DH class that had been purchased a year earlier for shunting and PW duties proved wholly unsuitable, forcing NIR to use the Hunslets on other duties. They started to use 1 Hunslet with a 6 coach formation, which put a lot of pressure on the locomotives.

They also realised, that if the first class coach was out of commission for any reason, they had no first class accommodation on the prestige service!

So, in 1972, they purchased a driving brake first open 813 and 4 more standard opens 825-828. All these coaches were in the attractive maroon/ dark blue livery before changing to the grey/ blue stripe livery around 1978. 
If modelling with the Hunslet locomotives, these are the vehicles in use up to February 1981, when the 111 class locomotives and the other coaches, like generator coaches so well clarified by David above, arrived to take over the Enterprise. 
 

Pat- a buffet and first class would generally always be in the service.

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1 hour ago, pat141 said:

Thanks for the info, very useful.

what about the trains to Derry/Londonderry with MK2 coaches would they need the buffet car?


Pat- not really my era, but the Hunslet service to Derry was not used for very long unfortunately. I am not sure if a main buffet coach was ever in the formation, I would doubt it but I’m open to correction , but the rebuilt mini-bar coach 821 was used. This was the standard open with seats removed and a small bar fitted and the final window on the right hand side plated over, an easy conversation if you don’t alter the interior, which is barely visible anyway!

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In the early 1980s after the Hunslets had been displaced from Belfast - Dublin services, Mk 2 coaches with Hunslet haulage were trialled on Derry/Londonderry services, but this was short lived, 80 Class sets becoming the norm. The Mk 2 push/pull set used was comprised of five coaches, including 548, the mini buffet.   

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12 minutes ago, pat141 said:

I was thinking of running my 112 loco with about 4 opens and Gen coach.

not prototypical but i might add a brake/driving trailer, maybe buffet.

would that look right?

In a book I have there is a picture of a Hunslet with a four-coach push-pull set on a Derry working in September 1984. The set comprised the Driving Brake First (sans any first class markings I can see, so possibly downclassed), a Standard Micro-Buffet, two Corridor Standards and the Hunslet on the rear.

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26 minutes ago, pat141 said:

I was thinking of running my 112 loco with about 4 opens and Gen coach.

not prototypical but i might add a brake/driving trailer, maybe buffet.

would that look right?


As the old saying goes, it’s your layout!

With 112, you need the generator coach as David explained earlier. If you have room for 6 coaches, model the buffet coach, if not just convert one of the standards to the mini buffet. You could justify it by claiming it is a rugby special to Dublin, although I think the mini bar would be dry by the time it reached Adelaide!

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I've had a look at the Railtec decals for the NIR Mk2 coaches and they are the blue stripe with white outline type with the "Inter City" branding.  

 

Nice as they are, I prefer the blue stripe livery without the white outline and so I have printed my own decals:-

 

1098705629_NIRMk2b.jpg.872ea24e0e573f1e98b3cb6aaf02b929.jpg

 

Now all I need to do is wait for the SP coaches to arrive.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

PS - if anyone would like a copy of the above image please send a PM to me.

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20 hours ago, pat141 said:

Thanks for the info, very useful.

what about the trains to Derry/Londonderry with MK2 coaches would they need the buffet car?

That was very short lived and from memory had no catering car or first class, with 4 or 5 coaches.

 

 

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On 14/06/2020 at 11:48, Darius43 said:

I've had a look at the Railtec decals for the NIR Mk2 coaches and they are the blue stripe with white outline type with the "Inter City" branding.  

 

Cheers

Darius

 

Hey Darius, I could make them without the white trim lines no problem at all if needed in future.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve Bell, BSc (Hons)
Railtec Transfers

 

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22 hours ago, jhb171achil said:

That was very short lived and from memory had no catering car or first class, with 4 or 5 coaches.

 

 

I think you are outnumbered on that one JHB. Hexagon789 has a picture in a book of a four coach set with the Micro Buffet in it, and there is a picture of a five coach set with the Micro Buffet arriving in Derry in the book '35 Years of NIR'.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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In between working on the Class 70...

 

D863D79F-EA10-4087-BBA0-430D1910B078.jpeg.70a9e948550a8fe1c99974c0e07b612e.jpeg

 

FF9C357E-E924-47C3-B46B-BB034B359C06.jpeg.9436078e94e7663279ee833043a2d787.jpeg

 

672F920A-B8F4-455D-8600-54FA63CCFBA8.jpeg.e4120cc952d435762fb36e3e166fed60.jpeg

 

The bogies will be replaced with Bachmann B4’s.  Etched sides by Hurst Models.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

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