Lima class 47 motor upgrade

[Class158]

I’m new to model railwaying and am using a Lima class 47.

But it stopped working  got it  

working but it seemed a little bit wrong. It’s motor was clicking so I oiled it but it still clicked. I looked into motor repair, took faceplate off motor and cleaned brushes, replaced faceplate and ran it. It ran better but still clicked. I also noted sparks possibly from brushes. 
 

Please tell me how to replace a Lima ringfield motor ,what the  is making the clicking and sparks and should I replace with a Hornby ringfield motor.

[Guest Half-full]

23 minutes ago, Class158 said:

I’m new to model railwaying and am using a Lima class 47.

But it stopped working  got it  

working but it seemed a little bit wrong. It’s motor was clicking so I oiled it but it still clicked. I looked into motor repair, took faceplate off motor and cleaned brushes, replaced faceplate and ran it. It ran better but still clicked. I also noted sparks possibly from brushes. 
 

Please tell me how to replace a Lima ringfield motor ,what the  is making the clicking and sparks and should I replace with a Hornby ringfield motor.

Sparks coming from the brushes indicates a dirty commuter on the actual motor itself, which can be cleaned using IPA.  The clicking suggests the gearsets.

 

A quick and effective way to replace the motor is buy getting one of these motors

[simon b]

Use this one for the Lima 47: LINK

[Class158]

By the way if anyone wants it I have this guide to servicing Lima motors:

lima service.pdf

 

[Class158]

The motor when running starts to pong of burning is this normal 

[simon b]

2 hours ago, Class158 said:

The motor when running starts to pong of burning is this normal 

No, that is not normal. Sounds like the best option for that is a replacement.

[DCB]

The Lima commutator set new standards of cheap and nastiness being a disc of PCB with slots.  It gets tarnished, the brushes spark, it gets hot starts to delaminate, the slots get bigger and bigger, it clicks, you oil it it gets worse, If the commutator don't fail then the drive gear wears out .

A new armature + brand new brushes and springs will revitaise it.    You could go the Computer/ CD tray motor route with a scalextric pinion like I do but you need the small thin one for a 47 as the centre wheel to motor housing clearance is critical on the six wheel bogie.  Mine are on board battery so no shorting issues.   I would source a new or VGC armature face plate and brushes. I believe any contemporary Lima OO / HO UK  parts except class 20  will fit, J50, 94XX, 45XX, Class 33,37,42,50.55 etc.  The Hornby 47 chassis is awful, tiny wheels, wobbly centre wheels on stub axles  I fitted a Saint Tender drive with sensible size wheels to mine, the side frames went straight on, and fitted larger wheels to the trailing bogie, but I couldn't live with those tiny standard Hornby  wheels.

[vikingsmb]

no need to replace the motor, they are easily serviced, and will go forever if looked after properly. 

[Class158]

It (I hope) is working fairly well if I do have to set my speed controller to about 25 mph before it moves. I think it probably would be best refitted. Fortunately for the motor I am planning a possible refit of every one of my locos to DCC and will probably need a spare motor for the conversion or if anything goes wrong. 

[vikingsmb]

On 24/03/2021 at 19:11, Class158 said:

It (I hope) is working fairly well if I do have to set my speed controller to about 25 mph before it moves. I think it probably would be best refitted. Fortunately for the motor I am planning a possible refit of every one of my locos to DCC and will probably need a spare motor for the conversion or if anything goes wrong. 

Lima locos are bomb proof, just give it a service and it will be ok, 

[DCB]

On 27/03/2021 at 23:23, vikingsmb said:

Lima locos are bomb proof, just give it a service and it will be ok, 

The contents of my scrap box tell a different tale, If run at low speed and with heavy loads the PCB disc that serves as a commutator burns away, the brush holders get hot and work loose in the end frame, the gears which can be replaced wear and the gear stub shafts which can't be replaced also wear. The gear wear is a lot less with smoother running computer motors.

If run at 100 scale mph with light trains they last a lot better.

[Class158]

@DavidCBroad 

On 01/04/2021 at 15:55, DavidCBroad said:

The contents of my scrap box tell a different tale, If run at low speed and with heavy loads the PCB disc that serves as a commutator burns away, the brush holders get hot and work loose in the end frame, the gears which can be replaced wear and the gear stub shafts which can't be replaced also wear. The gear wear is a lot less with smoother running computer motors.

If run at 100 scale mph with light trains they last a lot better.

I completely agree. Today I decided to service my 47 as it has been roughly a year since I have ran it for any long period more than around 15 minutes. It started well but hissed and smelt of overheating electrics at low speed. Upon further investigation the brushes had been almost melted in the heat of an unventilated Lima motor casing. Cleaning the commutator helped and powering it to full speed whilst not on the track seemed to give it new life. However, the commutator brushes had reduced in size by almost half. Hopefully, by replacing the brushes and springs it should help as an interim measure, but I probably will buy a Hornby Ringfield motor for eventually replacing the old Lima. I have also taken the decision of temporarily retiring my 47 and replacing most of its passenger services with another 47’s and replacing its shunting/ freight work with a 08 shunter I bought recently with exactly this thought in mind.

[SamThomas]

The Lima (& Triang/Hornby) motors in question are a copy (IMHO a cheap copy) of the Flesichmann** motor.

The burning smell is usually caused by over oiling when the oil residue gets between the commutator segments.

People often service motors & forget to clean between the segments - a pin between the segments usually does the trick.

You also need to make sure that the brushes are good & can move freely in their holders.

 

** There was a period when our friends from the south east used Fleischmann drive units on their demo/factory layouts - they may have got away with it but for the red wheels !

[Class158]

Gone but not forgotten - finally decided to remove the 47 from the running and just sell it when I get round to it. RIP☠️

[Corbs]

Just buy this for less than £20 shipped, it's almost a plug and play swap. Takes less than half an hour to do with a minimum of soldering.

 

I know some love ringfields but when CD motors run so well, I see trying to service a ringfield as a waste of time.

https://www.strathpefferjunction.com/product/lima-ringfield-replacement-cd-motor-adaptor-kit-la5-9mm-co-co/

 

[Derekl]

24 minutes ago, Corbs said:

I know some love ringfields but when CD motors run so well, I see trying to service a ringfield as a waste of time.

 

I fitted one of these in a Lima 37 - mine came from "Diesel trains" - at the time Strathpepper had no stock. Very easy to fit (even for a ham-fisted operator like me) and the running is transformed. Recommended.