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Triang Blue Pullman - donor coaches/improvements - resource listing (page 3)


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Page 3 Post 54 - listing of commercial offerings and non-commercial solutions/sources of information on the Blue Pullman.  This will be updated with information as I discover it/am pointed towards it.  Meant to be a useful resource for anybody interested in "improving" the Triang model

 

Page 3 Post 67 - a listing (current 10/07/2020 of most expensive eBay listings of Triang Blue Pullman models

 

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How this thread began....

 

As much as I would like to buy the Bachmann Blue Pullman ... £££££!!

 

I have carefully watched the well known auction site, but although driving cars (powered and dummy) appear by the dozen, the Triang parlour coaches seem as rare as hen's teeth, and sell for silly amounts (understandable, if folk like me are searching for them).  Buying "complete" 3 car sets for the sake of a single coach quickly pushes the cost of that coach into the territory of a brand new correctly detailed RTR vehicle - which to me defeats the object!

 

So my question (at last, they cry) is:

 

Which readily available coach model would make a good "donor" basis for Blue Pullman centre cars, preferably cheap and cheerful!

 

Thanks for any suggestions - my muddle model may be more "impressionistic" than correct, but as it will run onto my planned SR layout (!) it will be a "never-was"!  (And if all goes to plan, I may build another one in a bogus livery, perhaps like the Brighton Belle, maybe even MR maroon!  Sacrilege!!)

 

Steve S

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

PS

Moderators - If this thread should be in the Detailing RTR Models forum, please let me know

Edited by SteveyDee68
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Unfortunately they are still highly collectable. The best bet is if you can get to model railway exhibitions or swapmeets when they restart. They do appear and normally are about £10 to £20 each unboxed. The collectors want good quality boxed items so they go for much higher prices.

 

The main problem is Triang only did the one type of car. You need the others and have to use etched windows and other parts if you want to do a proper set.

 

Southern Pride models do the sides. The Triang window area pops out and they are a direct replacement.

 

Look under Conversion Kits here.

 

http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/

 

 

 

Jason

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I suppose it depends how impressionistic you want, and how much work you want to do! Minimum work and most impressionistic would be to drop in some coaches from the R1093 blue pullman pack.  For about £20 you will get something in the correct livery, but you will probably have to repaint the roofs at least for a better match.

 

Cheapest would probably be Traing/Hornby mk2's. Fill the windows and file the body side flat and then cut out and file the correct number and size of windows.  If the windows are the right size and position it will go a long way to looking correct at a glance.  You will need to do something with the roof too. I suspect anything above and beyond that you will be getting into the realm of scratch building.

 

If you want to go that route I think using Clive Mortimores approach to scratch building using plasticard could yield good results. Cost would be minimal other than time of course.

Edited by Titan
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The problem is that the Pullmans were originally sold as a set of 3 for the toy market. So the bulk of sales were power, dummy and 1 centre car.  The centre car was sold separately but probably only in small numbers, perhaps a few purchased 1 extra and even less more than 1. Thus making it difficult/expensive to buy a rake.

 

Luckily, the Pullman doesn't interest me!

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11 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

The problem is that the Pullmans were originally sold as a set of 3 for the toy market. So the bulk of sales were power, dummy and 1 centre car.  The centre car was sold separately but probably only in small numbers, perhaps a few purchased 1 extra and even less more than 1. Thus making it difficult/expensive to buy a rake.

 

Luckily, the Pullman doesn't interest me!

 

Most of the modellers went for the Kitmaster version.

 

Prices of those aren't cheap either, especially for unbuilt examples.

 

 

Jason

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Many years ago I was looking into this and concluded that the closest readily available coaches in profile to the Blue Pullmans were the short Hornby mk3s. As a bonus they are dirt cheap, I paid 50p each for some bodyshells. In addition, the window strip is separate, just like the Triang ones so it may be possible to use the Southern Pride inserts or make some plasticard ones.

 

I got as far as filing off the roof ribs on one coach before the project stalled and was put aside. I eventually bought a Bachmann set when they first came out.

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4 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

As much as I would like to buy the Bachmann Blue Pullman ... £££££!!

 

I have carefully watched the well known auction site, but although power cars (powered and dummy) appear by the dozen, the Triang coaches seem as rare as hen's teeth, and sell for silly amounts (understandable, if folk like me are searching for them).  Buying "complete" 3 car sets for the sake of a single coach quickly pushes the cost of that coach into the territory of a brand new RTR vehicle - defeats the object!

 

So my question (at last, they cry) is:

 

Which readily available coach model would make a good "donor" basis for Blue Pullman centre cars, preferably cheap and cheerful!

 

Thanks for any suggestions - my midel may be more "impressionistic" than correct, but as it will run onto my planned SR layout (!) it will be a "never-was"!  (And if all goes to plan, I may build another one in a bogus livery, perhaps like the Brighton Belle, maybe even MR maroon!  Sacrilege!!)

 

Steve S

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

PS

Moderators - If this should be in the Detailing RTR Models forum, please let me know

The quickest and probably cheapest way to make a passable coach would be to pick up some old Airfix Mk2D coaches - these have the overall look, then respray them.

 

Another quick(ish) way would be to pick up some of the Mk2D coaches from the Blue Pullman trainset/pack that Hornby done a few years back, but these are quite scarce, and can be expensive.  You wouldnt need to respray

 

You could use the short MK3's as mentioned above, that will require a lot of work (roof and underframe) and a repaint to get even close to resembling the prototypes.

 

If I was to do it, I'd look for the cheapest unboxed Triang BP coaches - not just the coaches on their own, but with power cars (these 3-car sets do tend to go cheaper than a single coach, and just sell the power cars on), and do whatever work needed done to them.  The window inserts from Southern Pride are worth using, and relatively cheap.   If you are going to do that, a word of caution - the reverse Grey/Blue and last of the blue/grey (where the grey band includes the door windows) livery BP's dont have removable window strips - the moulds where changed before they brought those liveries out

 

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2 hours ago, Half-full said:

The quickest and probably cheapest way to make a passable coach would be to pick up some old Airfix Mk2D coaches - these have the overall look, then respray them.

 

Just had a quick look on eBay ... cheapest at £19.99, both brake and open 2nd...

 

Or I could get a rake of four already painted in Blue Pullman livery for BIN £249 (with free postage!). EEK!

 

Steve S

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4 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Just had a quick look on eBay ... cheapest at £19.99, both brake and open 2nd...

 

Or I could get a rake of four already painted in Blue Pullman livery for BIN £249 (with free postage!). EEK!

 

Steve S

There are a few on eBay from a fiver upwards!!

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14 minutes ago, Half-full said:

There are a few on eBay from a fiver upwards!!

 

I've searched for Airfix Mk2 - I guess my search terms aren't wide enough!

 

Meanwhile a search for Triang Blue Pullman has pulled up a few cheap sets to keep an eye upon, as you also suggested earlier!

 

HOURS OF BIDDING FUN!

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59 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

I've searched for Airfix Mk2 - I guess my search terms aren't wide enough!

 

Meanwhile a search for Triang Blue Pullman has pulled up a few cheap sets to keep an eye upon, as you also suggested earlier!

 

HOURS OF BIDDING FUN!

I tend to just go right in to the manufacturer section and look through the category - quite a few arent listed with Mk2 etc, can always turn up a bargain that way!

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2 minutes ago, Half-full said:

I tend to just go right in to the manufacturer section and look through the category - quite a few arent listed with Mk2 etc, can always turn up a bargain that way!

 

Thanks - strangely enough, your response to another query (including your experience of Black Beetle power units) has perhaps answered the question I posted about powering the train from the centre rather than one end!  Am investigating the link you provided!

 

Steve S

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Right then, not trying to be cheeky here....

 

Many moons ago I did a 5-car Blue Pullman from a mixture of Triang and Kitmaster coaches. It was painted with Railmatch and had Woodhead transfers (remember them?). It fell into disuse, survived a house move, and is in my disposal box. I think it is complete, but some parts may have fallen off (eg bogies) though I think everything is just about there. If anyone is interested in it, I can dig it out and take some pics. I'd rather someone made use of it, so I'm open to offers, not looking for silly money! Definitely in the spare or repair category, sold as seen (but I'm not trying to con you).

 

Stewart

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Feel free to do so, Stewart - considering the £400 - £700 prices I am seeing for the Bachmann version, I am sure there is more than just me interested!

 

Changed thread title slightly for more interest, should you decide to post pictures etc.

 

Steve S

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Hi Steve,

 

Here is a sketch of the kitchen car that I made up from sections of power cars.

 

DSCF0957.JPG.f143958e3fa773988705c36262a12dcb.JPG

 

DSCF0954.JPG.f168c1b7036dc90dea4fb0e88a6e9bbc.JPG

 

DSCF0955.JPG.daf68a040b99b715d4544a6f400d29a4.JPG

 

DSCF0881.JPG.1bf4ed13da412404a8301b5548e0cfd5.JPG

 

 

Here is a link that you may well find useful:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/blue-pullman/

 

There are diagrams and descriptions of formations for both the Midland and Western Pullmans, click on the diagram thumb-nails for a full page rendering.

 

For my Midland Pullman I used one of the later Grey-Blue versions and did quite a lot of cutting and shutting.

 

Any questions just ask,

 

Gibbo.

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Posted (edited)
On 15/06/2020 at 22:05, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Steve,

 

Here is a sketch of the kitchen car that I made up from sections of power cars.

Here is a link that you may well find useful:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/type/blue-pullman/

 

There are diagrams and descriptions of formations for both the Midland and Western Pullmans, click on the diagram thumb-nails for a full page rendering.

 

For my Midland Pullman I used one of the later Grey-Blue versions and did quite a lot of cutting and shutting.

 

Any questions just ask,

 

Gibbo.

 

Thank you, Gibbo ... I've read elsewhere about chopping about the powercars but had no idea how to start! Your sketches are brilliantly useful - and I will save the information you have pointed me at. Half-full has also pointed me towards Replica Railway's power units as an option to drive a centre coach rather than one end! Bogies are another matter, of course!

 

Steve S

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4 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Thank you, Gibbo ... I've read elsewhere about chopping about the powercars but had no idea how to start!  Your sketches are brilliantly useful - and I will save the information you have pointed me at.  Half-full has also pointed me towards Replica Railway's power units as an option to drive a centre coach rather than one end!  Bogies are another matter, of course!

 

Steve S

Hi Steve,

 

I used Lima 73 bogies for the powered bogies and chopped about Hornby Mk2 B4 bogies for the unpowered bogies.

 

Gibbo.

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Posted (edited)

And before I could follow the link, Gibbo has kindly extracted and posted the diagrams!  The link is a treasure chest of information - looking at the bogies, I cannot yet tell if those are a scratchbuild from plasticard or whether someone somewhere makes the sideframes!  I feel Google searches coming on!

 

Steve S

 

UPDATE

And as if by magic, Gibbo responds again!  Thank you, sir!

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3 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Thank you, Gibbo ... I've read elsewhere about chopping about the powercars but had no idea how to start!  Your sketches are brilliantly useful - and I will save the information you have pointed me at.  Half-full has also pointed me towards Replica Railway's power units as an option to drive a centre coach rather than one end!  Bogies are another matter, of course!

 

Steve S

Regardless of which power source you use, surely you'd be better off with one at each end, rather than one in the centre?

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The Southern Pride Kitchen car inserts are out of stock.  :(

 

However:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kitchen-car-sides-for-Triang-Blue-Pullman-Southern-Pride-Models-OO-Brass-Kit/264760579489?hash=item3da4f5d5a1:g:lvcAAOSwtbBe4jxn

 

This might be useful:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Job-lot-Kitmaster-Blue-Pullman-parts-spare-or-repair-as-seen-in-photos/333623893085?hash=item4dad889c5d:g:Fo0AAOSwo8te43qM

 

(Lockdown out of the UK puts me out of the running.   :(

Current prices seem a tad OTT!

 

Note the Tri-ang cars are Western Pullman and the Kitmaster Midland - just to be awkward!

Tri-ang made two errors (apart from the awful bogies*): not producing inserts for the other cars - it would have been easy enough being just painted on clear plastic - and changing the mould to recessed windows - pointless and retrograde.

 

Kitmaster bogies are correct (both patterns), but can be added to the list along with hen's teeth and rocking horse droppings. (I did pick up a few, but not nearly enough for a set.)

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2 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

The Southern Pride Kitchen car inserts are out of stock.  :(

 

However:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kitchen-car-sides-for-Triang-Blue-Pullman-Southern-Pride-Models-OO-Brass-Kit/264760579489?hash=item3da4f5d5a1:g:lvcAAOSwtbBe4jxn

 

This might be useful:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Job-lot-Kitmaster-Blue-Pullman-parts-spare-or-repair-as-seen-in-photos/333623893085?hash=item4dad889c5d:g:Fo0AAOSwo8te43qM

 

(Lockdown out of the UK puts me out of the running.   :(

Current prices seem a tad OTT!

 

Note the Tri-ang cars are Western Pullman and the Kitmaster Midland - just to be awkward!

Tri-ang made two errors (apart from the awful bogies*): not producing inserts for the other cars - it would have been easy enough being just painted on clear plastic - and changing the mould to recessed windows - pointless and retrograde.

 

Kitmaster bogies are correct (both patterns), but can be added to the list along with hen's teeth and rocking horse droppings. (I did pick up a few, but not nearly enough for a set.)

 

CJL of Model Rail and this group, plus Genesis Kits, produced these bogies at one time.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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4 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

CJL of Model Rail and this group, plus Genesis Kits, produced these bogies at one time.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

And replacement cab fronts too if I recall correctly

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