Collector's Corner Graham Farish

[Il Grifone]

Hi Garry,

 

Two reasons - single slide bar and in stock. Compared to the original plastic parts they are a lot finer

 

I agree with you concerning the Duchess valve gear. The cast cross head is far superior IMHO. I wondered at the time why they did this and why they went to the trouble of retooling both chassis and body for the City - a new model of another locomotive class would have sold better I would have thought.

 

I believe Kitmaster ceased production in 1962. Some models being reintroduced by Airfix two or three years later.

 

I motorised the L&Y 0-4-0ST using the Perfecta kit with only limited success. In 3 rail using a skate made from the copper foil in the Lott's chemistry series (6d each at the time). She could manage 3 Dublo wagons (just) but her 'Terrier' motor ran hot very quickly. The metal tyres were supposed to push on but didn't (I can't remember how I sorted that one). What's left of the chassis keeps turning up from time to time....

My first motorisation of a Kitmaster BoB a few years earlier, using the chassis of my Dublo 'Sir Nigel' had been much better, but didn't last much longer. I recall the instructions stated Malachite green for some strange reason, which I duly followed. It should have been Brunswick green, of course, seeing orange lining was specified and 'ferret' decals were supplied.... I've just dug out my latest attempt - It looks like I'm going to have to abandon the Wrenn pony truck and fit a Hornby one instead as it fits too far back. the Hornby is still wrong, but a new location for the pivot screw will solve that.

 

David

Edited July 4, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

I've just spotted this item on the Bay:-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Formo-train-Controls-untested-parts-only-not-sure-of-gauge-/182459507498?hash=item2a7b6f232a:g:xuMAAOSwcUBYQUqn

 

Obviously a rather substantial Farish/Formo Transformer/controller. The seller states, " I know nothing  For spares or repair only Located blue bin large 118"

That is answered easily - Fail! (Just look at the remains of the mains lead). Suitable only as a collector's item (or as doorstop or (it would be a pity) in another sort of bin*!)

 

* Just joking! - of course it should be recycled at the local centre....)

 

There is also a collection of Farish Pullmans for sale. These are almost straight - presumably they have spent most of their lives in their boxes. I haven't seen a 'Pauline' that good, since I got mine new.... (She was thrown out (warped of course) in the end.)

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-00-gauge-PULLMAN-COACH-CAR-NAME-PAULINE-/361911033574?hash=item5443941ee6:g:fC4AAOSw-0xYdLJA

[bertiedog]

I have one of the box of electrical delights known as the Formo controller, and it works! But rather than rely on a selenium stack rectifier, which is left in place inside, a normal silicon rectifier was added, with a smoothing capacitor. It uses taps on the transformer to provide three speeds plus off/ reverse. So for modern high efficiency motors it is useless as the lowest voltage is far to high.

 

But it works with vintage locos with heavier current drain, and suits the two pole Graham Farish motors. Oddly it's output is too high with the single Formo loco, the Q class fitted with the Pittman 5 pole motor. There is no real low speed setting.

The unit is very well made, but they can rust away or corrosion may have struck the transformer. It was not designed by Grahame Farish, but by Preens, who owned Formo, which was bought out by Graham Farish. Just like Farish, Preens were electronic and electrical parts makers, who had a factory in Southampton.

 

If you get one of these, get it checked by a competent electrician, who can change the rectifier, ( a must) Selenium only lasts so long and will have gone bad by now.

 

All the styling needs is a slot in the top, and it could pass as a mini toaster!

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Just seen the price!!..."he who knows nothing" is revealed as "he who thinks he knows it's worth"....if he knew nothing then it would have started at 50p and found it's true value....about scrap weight. They are rare, but not valued much.

[Il Grifone]

SWMBO said, "You aren't buying that are you?" For once she's right!

[DCB]

Greeting Gary,

 

Herewith some photos of my loco, as promised.

 

The layout on display at Fairbourne is owned locally and is attached to a trailer for easy transportation!

 

I was concerned about the colour of my loco and ultimately air brushed it using Railmatch B.R. Green enamel mixed 2:1 with Humbrol clear varnish, which seems to suit the bill.

There is a superb book by Brian Haresnape, published by Ian Allen,  entitled "Railway Liveries BR Steam 1948-1968" which is a marvellous reference to colour.  ISBN 0 7110 1856 1

 

Brian

Just found this thread, This idea of using a H/D boss and Triang worm wheel is brilliant, I am inspired!   Oddly enough I have done the opposite in that I drilled a Triang X04 worn and slipped it over a H/D Castle Ringfield Armature shaft to mate with Triang worm with top hat bushes force fitted to a Romford 1/8" axle in much hacked about H/D Castle Chassis powering a GEM 56XX with the smokebox and front end shortened to something like scale.

 

I read the thread as I have a Farish 81XX body on a Triang Hall chassis with H/D 2-6-4t wheels, Triang princess con rods and Hall cylinders.  With a modified H/D coupling floating on the pony truck she has shared banking duties with a similarly powered Wills 61XX for the last 30 years.  A second mechanically similar 81XX is spare and a 3rd is having a no 4 smokebox and front boiler and firebox top from a Wills Hall  fitted as well as a high cab roof to become a 3150 class.

 

I also have two 94XX  on Triang Jinty Chassis. one with Romford wheels one less sucessfully with Hornby Dublo R1 wheels. The wheel spacing is wrong but not too noticeably so, one had been on shunting duties continuously for 30 odd years but has suffered motor failure.    The X04 is all too prominent so I stuck Airfix trackside workmen in light blue overalls to the motor's magnet which takes the eye away from the motor to a certain extent.

 

My GP 5 became a push along "Henry" for my small son 18 years ago and now resides in my scrap box, and a Farish King body awaits a re wheeled Triang Jinty chassis I have been sourcing bits for for the last 30 years.   Every time the new Hornby King slips to a stand the Farish Kings triumphant return moves a step nearer.

 

Someone mentioned the Hornby R1 chassis with larger wheels. I have an S15 an R1 chassis with Romford 22mm drivers and standard gearing under a Hornby King Arthur body with  H/D city valve gear.

Edited February 26, 2017 by DavidCBroad

[Golden Fleece 30]

David, I have a few R1 chassis where I have put different sized Dublo wheels in, others where I have re-drilled the chassis to give a different axle spacing to suit my requirements.  Here is one fitted with Duchess/A4 wheels for use as a V2. It is a very useful chassis if you are prepared to modify wheel sizes or spacing.  Being offset it is suitable for the V2 here plus B1 and Black 5 without re-drilling..

 

Garry

[Sandhole]

Following Mr 32a's plea for photos (in the Kirdon thread), I thought I'd start showing a few bits of my nascent Grafar collection. Being of Poole origins, I've always had a soft spot for Farish, though paradoxically a particular interest in their early stuff made when they were still in Bromley.

 

Anyway, here's one of my Black 5's. It's had a hard life and will be receiving a little sympathetic restoration sometime in the future.

 

 

 

Of interest is that the cab lacks the usual raised numbering (44753), which I've been told means it's an early one (can anyone confirm?). I've read somewhere that the Black 5 was on the market quite shortly after the war and certainly before the Rovex Princess (1950). Would this mean that the early locos pre-date the cycling lion logo?

 

Cheers

Adrian

 

I have today taken a delivery of a black five from Olivia's trains I bought on ebay.

The loco is part of a collection being sold off by the shop. I don't know the guy who built it but, he couldn't half build a marvellous chassis!!!!!

The point of this drivel is that, on dismantling the loco for lubrication, I find the lettering, Graham Farish.

My mate Mike has some lovely Farish Kings modified by him and his Dad, new chassis, brake gear etc, but I hadn't seen a Black Five in the flesh let alone with the biz done to it.

I will stick a photo of the beast up when I have time.

The point of this drivel is that, with the right treatment, there is a definite place on any trainset for these pieces of model railway history.

 Chris.

[Il Grifone]

Father Xmas brought me a Farish Black 5 last year.

 

I was going to write about her before, but my project to replace her weird 'motor' with a Pittman (which would be appropriate of course) hit a problem in that there is insufficient room in the tender to accommodate it. I was going to fit an Airfix one instead, but it needs a special mounting made up (It will have to sit sideways due to height restrictions) and at the moment she is sitting in a box with the tender in pieces. Watch this space.... (It might take some time!)

 

The original motor did run and sometimes would even start by itself! (Any sort of load made it increasing likely to stall.) Unusally, she seems free of zinc pest.

[Sandhole]

Mike informs me that his Dad was going to 'Do the biz' on a Farish Black Five but stopped when he realised how fragile the body had become!!

He had some nasty experiences with Kings when he was grinding down the fireboxes to make them 'more scale'. When the body stayed in one piece, a very worthwhile procedure.

Mike still reckons the best King he has is a Brian modified Farish one. She takes a totally kitbuilt 12 coach Torbay Express up his incline unaided!

I realise that both his Kings and my Five are bodies on new and damn good chassis, but the point is that they are history on the train set which, when you realise the age, I think is marvellous!!

My 'Five will be renumbered to a 44000 series, the forward mounted topfeed, but retain the Farish tender. I have a spare 4000 gallon tender, but I prefer to keep the Farish tender. History again!

By the way, the tender from the 'Five is a perfect model of a Stanier 3000 gallon tender.

[RINGOOZZLE]

Hello I have a Graham Farish set oo gauge and have not got a clue as information is hard to find on this subject.

I was looking up on it on the net and found this site and was wondering if anyone can help me with any information please thank you

 

[Il Grifone]

Welcome to RMweb

 

You appear to have most of the Farish items there. The main items missing are locomotives.

 

These appeared in the late forties (1949) with the Black 5 (sold as G.P. 5) and 4 wheel coaches, followed by the wagons, Pullman cars and the bogie non-corridor coaches. Later releases include more locomotives - a Bulleid Pacific (sold as both MN and WC) and (G)WR King and  Prairie Tank. Then there came more wagons a 3 rail (Formo) set (an 0-6-0 with a passing resemblance to an SR class 'Q' and three wagons (van 7 plank and brake) with yet another variation of the underframe (why I have no idea, they run even worse than the others*) and, later still, a NYC Hudson and coaches.

 

There are 5 different Pullman names (Lydia, Iolanthe, Pauline, Minerva & Phyllis). In addition there are a C.I.W.L. version (totally inaccurate) and a brake/third.

 

These are first series wagons: Steel mineral, 7 plank mineral,  5 plank open, goods van and brake van. All except the brake van (I've only ever seen this in bauxite) were available in grey, brown and bauxite (possibly the steel mineral was not available in brown - again I've never seen one).

 

Later wagons are low sided, bolster and 3 plank opens. These have a different underframe casting. There was also a range of trackwork.

 

Supplies were erratic throughout the fifties and the range was relaunched in the early sixties (1962 IIRC).

 

Some more information on the pullmans

 

http://precisionlabels.co.uk/gfpulls.html

 

Sales were hampered by an awful 2 pole motor (tied up with restrictions on manufacture - austerity is not a new idea, but then there was just cause - we really did have no money), erratic supplies, high prices (the Pullmans were 27/6d I recall - almost twice the price of a Dublo Stanier coach) and the necessity for 2 foot minimum radius curves. The tendency of the zinc alloy to rot and the plastic to warp didn't help, but these phenomena didn't show up immediately.

 

* Included was an oval of track, similar to and compatible with Dublo track, but on a wider tinplate base. 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

Interestingly I have just received a 1951 magazine and it has a 2 page spread on the Farish Prairie as a kit, unpainted with BR transfers, Black with BR transfers and green with GWR transfers.

 

I did not know Farish were making these that long ago as Dublo was 6 or 7 years away from 2-rail and Tri-ang had only just entered the market.

 

What is interesting is that the motor is described as "Detachable with its own pick-ups and does NOT rely on wheels and axles.

 

Has anyone got one of these to show?

 

Garry

[Sandhole]

I'm amazed the Pullmans are still intact! The plastic gets very fragile!!

The Torreyford layout, we now go into old model railway history!, had a rake of Farish Pullmans that had been rebogied with six wheeled American bogies. My mate Mike,' Coachbogie' on this site, tried to do the same thing with a set, they disintegrated before his eyes!!!

Take care of those coaches!!!

                   Chris.

[TonyA]

 

 

What is interesting is that the motor is described as "Detachable with its own pick-ups and does NOT rely on wheels and axles.

 

Has anyone got one of these to show?

 

Garry

 

My father bought a Prairie and a King about that time together with a couple of Pullmans. However, I sold the remains many years ago as they were starting to rot badly. Nevertheless, I still have the Gaiety 57XX from the same period, albeit as a non-runner. The motor burnt out in the 1970s while testing a friend's faulty controller.

 

Pickups on the Farish locos were sprung plungers and worked well at the time. However, the motors were not too good. Some time in the 1960s I bought a Bulleid Pacific that ran well having been fitted with a Triang motor. Again this was sold many years ago, probably when I started modelling German railways.

 

Tony

[Il Grifone]

Last night's post has got lost in cyber space (easy after travelling all day!) so I'll try again.

 

The first series Pullmans suffered from excessive weight, due to a thick cast floor, which was/is very prone to zinc pest, and a plastic body (very prone to warping). The metal tends to expand and the plastic to shrink. All suffer from a wavy roof at least. The bogies are the correct type for the Kitchen/Parlour car (if they've survived - zinc pest again - or lost - screw fixing), but should be six wheel on the Brake/3rd.

 

I have the remains of a prairie chassis. I try and post a photo if I can find where the bits are stashed. The claimed traction power has more to do with the weight of the item and the traction tyres rather than any virtue of the eccentric motor design IMHO. Two plungers for pickup (one per rail) are not exactly 100% reliable. It's just as well there is considerable overrun in the mechanism.... The re-release of the prairie tank in the sixties has a conventional motor and pickup through the wheels. The ponies are still prone to derailment however.

[Chris Medlicott]

Greetings to the 00 Farish enthusiasts from the sunny south of New Zealand.

Being a 00 collector of some 20 years now I have acquired a few nice GF items - one of which I need some help with.

Firstly the locos and coaches: Perfect items are a later class 61 mint in box with 2 equally good GWR coaches in the clear plastic boxes, 3 nice pullman coaches.

Projects which have gone well are another class 61 body only mated to an Airfix class 61 chassis. Nice model which goes well. There is a GP5 body only which I have grafted onto a Hornby dublo castle chassis with 8f valve gear and wrenn 8f tender to complete a Dublo Farish black 5. It involved a lot of grinding out the body the with angle gringer to make it work. Brutal but effective.

There is a late class 94 Gwr tank with a can motor afflicted by zinc pest - the splashers, buffer beam and steps have crumbled away.  

The latest - which I'd love some advice with - is a modified Merchant Navy with no motor or gears. Really nice blue paint. Very attractive model. It seems to have had a replacement chassis made in brass and a triang drive cog which the previous owner gave u on before fitting a motor to. I managed to fettle it enough to get an x04 into it. The tender pickups are wired direct to the motor brushes. It has the original wheels and motion - interestingly one  of the bogie wheels is a spoked gP5 type - a factory error?  The front bogie has crumbled away due to zinc pest however I am looking at modifying a triang one to fit.

The problem is now that it runs (0-6-2 style until I get a new bogie fashioned) it just falls over on the curves because it is top heavy.  Can anyone help me out with a pic of an original Merchant Navy chassis and gear arrangement so I can use that to inform modifications to what I have to make it  behave better?

[Il Grifone]

 

Welcome to RMweb 

 

Sorry I can't help with a  Merchant Navy chassis. I only have a Black Five and Prairie tank of the original series. These do have a solid alloy chassis however, with plenty of weight low down. They are rather reluctant to go around sharp curves however. IIRC 2 foot radius was recommended as a minimum. Certainly the Pullman cars don't want to know about Dublo curves...

 

Unfortunately zinc pest is very common in Farish castings, even the later ones. I have seen a 94xx tank with most of the cab crumbled away.

[Chris Medlicott]

Thanks for the welcome.

I think I am getting Port Line's crash habit solved a tiny bit at a time. First the old hardened traction tyres were jamming against the inside rail on curves forcing the front drivers off the rails. Step 1 removed old traction tyres. A bit better. Next it flew off with inconsistent running on the curve. step 2 Add pick-ups to all 4 metal tyres. A bit better stability. Much better running. Step 3 adjust the tender linkage to avoid jamming the body on the tender in curves. A bit better. Step 4. Add weight to the bottom of the chassis with lead glued in and solder in gaps. A bit better. Step 5 fit TH bogie with GF wheels. Worse. Will pack out the wheels on the axles to provide a more consistent angle and look for a better bolt to the bogie to reduce play. Suspect bodywork is catching on the bogie. I also suspect the plungers are playing havoc catching on  the point-work causing the tender to derail. I may just see if I can do without them. BTW the tender body isn't plastic - it's old school bakelite!

[Chris Medlicott]

Ok. Just about got it sorted. The bogie was not quite right - leading wheels fouling the cylinders. Adjusted the drawbar. Much happier now. The tender drawbar is a homemade item with various kinks in it. Stretched this out to increase clearance between the tender and body on curves

[Il Grifone]

Since the alternative plastic at the time was cellulose acetate or a close relation), it's just as well it's bakelite. The plunger pickups are next to useless so it's probably better to revise the whole chassis (perhaps a Tri-ang BoB chassis, though the wheels are rather coarse on this). Really it's a question of originality or function. The whole design left something to be desired. They would pull* when you could get them to go, but getting them to go was the problem.

 

Waffle alert!

 

* I can remember being impressed by a Farish locomotive (a King IIRC) pulling two of their immensely heavy Pullmans. My HD 'Atholl' could only just manage one (It was the only coach I had at the time, but she struggled even with that (This must have been Gamages in 1951 IIRC - we were in London for the Festival of Britain.  I can remember the Emmett railway and riding a tram.) Korean war shortages meant coaches were in short supply. My 150 Xmas present was the 'Atholl' and a collection of wagons. I didn't get any coaches until later- a GF Pullman (too heavy), A Trix LMS 'scale' (wheel problems - easy enough to sort now, but not at the age of five. Eventually a Dublo LMS 1st/3rd appeared, but it wasn't until the next Xmas that a 'Sir Nigel' set enabled a proper ttain.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

A BR blue Farish King Henry V has just joined the collection, together with another Pullman (Phyllis) and a grey die-cast van (These two suffer from the usual defects of the breed!).

Unfortunately there are a few bits missing or damaged in an otherwise excellent model. I will have to repair a buffer, replace the corroded handrail and find a tender body. These are minor cosmetic repairs however. More seriously part of the u/j drive shaft is missing and the contacts of the 'motor' are damaged on one side and broken on the other. It looks like a proper motor is called for. Spares are unlikely to be available, at least at a Grifone friendly price,

 

Now all I need is a Spamcan. I already have three NYC Hudsons (from Rivarossi, Kitmaster and Revell/Monogram - This last claims to be ATSF, but only the decals are different), so I don't think I'll bother. She comes with curvy passenger cars for another excuse - I already have plenty of weirdly shaped Pullmans and suburbans. Of course, a Grifone friendly price might change my mind (little/no chance of that!)

[Player of trains]

Hello everyone, I’ve been going though adverts for Graham and Farish’s OO range to try and narrow down some dates after obtaining a NYC Hudson from a friend for restoration, there were some lightweight coaches shown in the advertisements to run with the Hudson but I’ve never seen them mentioned outside of advertisements. Were they ever made available and if so does anyone have photos? I imagine they ended up like the Pullman coaches and banana shaped.

 

cheers, Alec.

[Il Grifone]

Further inspection of 'King Henry' has revealed one or two problems. Firstly the bogie is set slightly too far back which accounts for the inability to go around corners. The rear bogie wheels foul the leading drivers, but moving the whole bogie forward requires removal of a sizeable chunk of solid zinc alloy. I can possibly get away with just moving the rear axle forward a millimetre or so*. I've ordered some 3/32" brass bar to manufacture a replacement drive shaft, which leaves the motor. I'm hoping I can resolder the broken contact or make new with some Romford pickup strip I found I had. Straightening around the intact one gave signs of life and even got it to rotate quite strongly  despite one contact not switching. At  worst I'll remove the lot and fit a proper motor I have a couple from Airfix 14xx which should fit**. Unhappily their u/j doesn't fit the Farish shaft   .

I'm undesided how far to go with detailing. I have a GBL King tender in blue which solves the tender body problem (I hope), but is lined which suggests lining the locomotive. Touching in the double red power classification and the number plate seem essential along with adding a smokebox plate and brass front axleboxes and some decent buffers. The chimney cap fits badly so I'll probably drill it out and refit. Possibly some pickups on the wheel tyres to aid the plungers would be worthwhile.

 

*     I have a spare, so I can afford to b****r it up.

**   One for my GP5 and the other for this. I'll worry about the Spamcan if and when one arrives.

 

EDIT

 

I'm pretty sure the coaches for the Hudson appeared at the same time (1953?), but have never seen any. I don't recall seeing a Hudson come to that. I imagine banana shaped would be the norm. Polystyrene didn't really come in till the mid-fifties. I assume the Hudson was made to H0 scale (She's a big beast even in H0). It would have been appalling market research to make the model 00. Tri-ang's TC coaches could make a possible substitute. They are short (70' rather than 85'), but need to be for Tri-ang curves. Easy and cheap to obtain, they also don't only come in 'standard passenger car'

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Il Grifone
I wrote this last night and didn't post (it was late!)

[Player of trains]

Thanks Grifone, I've a hunch the coaches likely never made it to market I can't find any references outside of advertisements, the plan for cars instead is to track down some Trix Twin heavyweight coaches, I've seen them around, cheap and ratty and they'd be nice to restore and repaint into NYC two tone grey. I'm very quickly falling down a rabbit hole I see no recovery from...