Heritage Railways Starting To Reopen

[mdvle]

8 hours ago, fezza said:

So it is safe to sit in a train from Edinburgh to Bodmin Parkway for a whole day, but not safe to travel between Bodwin and Bodmin Parkway? 

 

I really think we now have to make sensible adaptations, not close whole businesses down. 

 

Which is what most of them will be doing.

 

But, an industry that many claim on here is primarily run using older volunteers - aka high risk group - is an entirely different thing from a normal railway with paid staff of various ages.  

 

And the finances are also an entirely different thing.  As noted, the costs to run the train remain the same regardless of how many people you carry - if you can carry half the people you may end up running things at a loss (note that almost / all of the main franchises essentially handed themselves over to the government temporarily because higher costs with many fewer passengers destroyed their balance sheets).

 

[mdvle]

32 minutes ago, fezza said:

Where lines depend on large numbers of full time staff I suspect the furlough scheme makes it more difficult reopen. Its created a perverse disincentive to keep businesses closed until you can be absolutely 100% sure you will turn a profit. Not really what the government intended....

 

Only part of the equation.

 

A much bigger part of the equation will be loss of marketshare/customer awareness.  If all other touristy things around you open and you stay closed, people could forget about you not just this year but for the next 5 or so years unless you spend a lot of money on advertising in the future.

 

 

[fezza]

4 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

But, an industry that many claim on here is primarily run using older volunteers - aka high risk group - is an entirely different thing from a normal railway with paid staff of various ages.  

 

 

 

A lot of major lines have paid staff. A lot of footplate and pw staff are quite young these days. I accept much will depend on the availability of key people so not everywhere will be the same. 

[mdvle]

Just now, fezza said:

A lot of major lines have paid staff. A lot of footplate and pw staff are quite young these days. I accept much will depend on the availability of key people so not everywhere will be the same. 

 

Yes they do - but for example footplate and pw staff are not customer facing and thus are low risk for transmission from the customers.

 

If the volunteers are the customer facing positions - gift shop, tickets, etc - then that causes a potential problem.

 

So it is one of many factors that all the heritage operations will be factoring into their decision making.

[PhilH]

Fingers crossed for 15th July

 

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/06/steam-locomotive-34046-braunton-runs-on-mainline-for-first-time-since-coronavirus-lockdown-began.html?fbclid=IwAR1JKBR39uc9yUpDNka6Ar5pW5NWZ1OQwkmIIdkrR7zceRjdGDmQA2rwC4E

Edited June 17, 2020 by PhilH

[kipford]

Midhants are planning for the middle of July. The social distancing measures for operations look quite well thought out There is a training day this weekend for operational staff and volunteers. Us shed types are waiting hear what they have planned for us.

[brianusa]

On 17/06/2020 at 07:54, mdvle said:

 

Only part of the equation.

 

A much bigger part of the equation will be loss of marketshare/customer awareness.  If all other touristy things around you open and you stay closed, people could forget about you not just this year but for the next 5 or so years unless you spend a lot of money on advertising in the future.

 

 

 

Hopefully the enthusiast will be enthusiastic and respond quickly.  The general public may take a while and until they all get together it may be a bit dodgy, but no doubt the operators will need a bit of money in the bank before normalcy sets in.

     Brian.

[adb968008]

How are footplate crews socially distancing ?

 

Keeping The driver at firemans Shovel length apart ? , each using their own steps ?, not using tank engines ?

Edited June 18, 2020 by adb968008

[Gwiwer]

On 17/06/2020 at 07:41, fezza said:

So it is safe to sit in a train from Edinburgh to Bodmin Parkway for a whole day, but not safe to travel between Bodwin and Bodmin Parkway? 

 

I really think we now have to make sensible adaptations, not close whole businesses down. 

 

With so many people sitting frustrated at home this is a great time to recruit new younger volunteers who may stick with it for life if they get the bug. 

Many heritage railways rely on volunteers in their more senior years.  Many of those would be in vulnerable health categories and probably unwilling to commit to being out and about just yet.  As such some of the smaller lines might find it harder to re-open.  

 

I don't think the B&WR are alone in finding it a challenge to balance resources, costs and potential demand.  

 

As for whether it is safe to travel between any two points yes it is otherwise the government would have either stopped the trains or made it clear that they you used them against their advice at your own risk.  Instead they have quite sensibly asked us to consider whether a journey is necessary to reduce the risk of trains becoming as crowded as they more typically are.  And most long-distance operators already have a means of limiting numbers such as by requiring a seat to be pre-booked.  

[ejstubbs]

9 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

As for whether it is safe to travel between any two points yes it is otherwise the government would have either stopped the trains or made it clear that they you used them against their advice at your own risk.

 

In the midst of an ongoing pandemic it is far, far from being "at your own risk".  Which means that The Powers That Be decided that the overall risk of allowing rail travel to continue - with adequate controls (social distancing, screens etc) in place - was acceptable vs the social and economic impacts of shutting services down altogether.

 

Despite its slightly misleading headline, this article from the WSJ does a reasonable job of explaining how the risks of the disease being spread are balanced against the societal risks: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-exactly-do-you-catch-covid-19-there-is-a-growing-consensus-11592317650

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

Despite its slightly misleading headline, this article from the WSJ does a reasonable job of explaining how the risks of the disease being spread are balanced against the societal risks: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-exactly-do-you-catch-covid-19-there-is-a-growing-consensus-11592317650

Interesting article and the first couple of sentences sums it up:

 

"It’s not common to contract Covid-19 from a contaminated surface, scientists say. And fleeting encounters with people outdoors are unlikely to spread the coronavirus.

Instead, the major culprit is close-up, person-to-person interactions for extended periods. Crowded events, poorly ventilated areas and places where people are talking loudly—or singing, in one famous case—maximize the risk."

 

I think masks may be a feature of early exhibitions and heritage rides, silence won't be an option really will it

Edited June 19, 2020 by woodenhead

[Butler Henderson]

Coverage of the Great Central on East Midlands Today yesterday - issuing the equivalent of seat reservations with passengers boarding in appropriate reservation order so as not to walk pass anyone. In open coaches passengers sat zig zagged along the coach, Presumably wcs will be locked out of use and a bit unclear what happens if someone wants to leave the train en route. Usual comments re limited capacity etc.  As with pubs how about applying basic economics - if only x custom can be dealt with and it costs y then the price charged has to be more than x/y to make any return

[stewartingram]

Pah! Humbug! Everyone knows a good lungful of steam and, especially, coal smoke does wonders for your health. Too many nancy boys about today!

[Gilbert]

7 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Pah! Humbug! Everyone knows a good lungful of steam and, especially, coal smoke does wonders for your health. Too many nancy boys about today!

That's nancy "persons"......

[Edge]

Bluebell has given a provisional opening date of 7th August on Instagram. Rallies with what I’ve heard about the SVR etc

[DCB]

Why not stick some seats in open wagons like they did in the old days,  Just need some decent weather,   Might work on preserved railways as well as commuter lines.

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Pah! Humbug! Everyone knows a good lungful of steam and, especially, coal smoke does wonders for your health. Too many nancy boys about today!

 

The Nancy Boys and Hardy Drew. Wasn't that a Two Ronnies sketch skitting the TV programme?  

 

It was just on TV that the level has reduced to 3. If that continues to decline then social distancing will virtually be over by the time frame we are talking anyway. 

 

Here's hoping we can soon start getting back to normal with pints and trains.

 

 

 

Jason

[mdvle]

19 hours ago, adb968008 said:

How are footplate crews socially distancing ?

 

Keeping The driver at firemans Shovel length apart ? , each using their own steps ?, not using tank engines ?

 

Safe to assume that they aren't.

 

That said it will be interesting to see.  On one hand, the semi-open nature of most steam cabs means good air circulation so in theory it can be like being outdoors - aka low risk.

 

But the other hand, it depends on how much effort is required to move the coal as deep breathing could cause a problem - perhaps low risk on a slow speed heritage line with little exertion (and perhaps the station stops used for higher exertion where the driver can leave the cab temporarily).

 

Be interesting to see what happens.

[Tim Hall]

4 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Why not stick some seats in open wagons like they did in the old days,  Just need some decent weather,   Might work on preserved railways as well as commuter lines.

Bristol Harbour Railway do.

 

 

 

 

[Chris116]

I am a guard on the Mid Hants Railway and the web site says they are planning to open early July and I know that a lot of work has been going on in the background to enable that to happen. Volunteers have been kept up to date throughout the last few months but we have been asked not to publish details until the railway can be sure that they can safely reopen. 

 

I along with most of my fellow volunteers would have loved to have been running for the past three months but many of us are over 65 and I have the added problem of using public transport from London to get to Alton. At present it is a case of want to but won't be for the time being as far as I am concerned.

 

Watch the websites of your local lines as that is where the first official news will appear.

[RJS1977]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

 

 

Watch the websites of your local lines as that is where the first official news will appear.

 

Which of course is what I created the thread for - to provide a useful one-stop shop where the proposed reopening dates of various lines and centres could be found in one place. As with the exhibition cancellations thread, the useful information is in danger of being swamped by the general discussion regarding the practicalities and economics of reopening.

 

Personally I have very few qualms about visiting a heritage railway or centre once they reopen - the issue for me as a non-driver will be in getting there in the first place!

[PhilH]

21 hours ago, adb968008 said:

How are footplate crews socially distancing ?

 

Keeping The driver at firemans Shovel length apart ? , each using their own steps ?, not using tank engines ?

Have you been on a footplate? Keep the doors open on a summer day and not a lot of nasties will survive in that environment. Good fun on a Bulleid Pacific with 6 on going up a 1 in 60...perhaps an excuse to bring back the fabled chalk line down the centre of the cab.

Here’s a thought too...how do the emergency services do it, eg ambulance crews, fire engines....?

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by PhilH

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, PhilH said:

Have you been on a footplate? Keep the doors open on a summer day and not a lot of nasties will survive in that environment. Good fun on a Bulleid Pacific with 6 on going up a 1 in 60...perhaps an excuse to bring back the fabled chalk line down the centre of the cab.

Here’s a thought too...how do the emergency services do it, eg ambulance crews, fire engines....?

Just replying to the last sentence - I nearly cut the rest of the post but then realised it could be misinterpreted out of context!
 

Emergency services probably have to accept that the benefits outweigh the risks (although doubtless there'll be some measures they can take, and are more likely to be more careful about not coughing in each others' direction than most people). Unfortunately the same (about the risk vs benefit) can't be said for heritage railways, so a stronger case of a lower risk needs to be made.

[Ryde-on-time]

The Great Central Railway is giving a provisional date for its first passenger services as Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th July 2020. Details here

 

http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/coronavirus/

 

Details from the Dartmouth railway (including a picture of the screens they have fitted between the seats) for its opening on 7th July are here

 

https://www.dartmouthrailriver.co.uk/reopening-plans

[gwrrob]