Heritage Railways Starting To Reopen

[Bomag]

1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 

How terrible; no not the sanitizer, but the purple seats!

[Ryde-on-time]

Found this list of preserved railways and their plans regarding reopening, looking forward to when I can visit somewhere :

 

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/06/coronavirus-the-full-list-of-when-railways-are-reopening-wednesday-24th-june-2020.html

[rocor]

7 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

How terrible; no not the sanitizer, but the purple seats!

 

 Purple seating in railway carriages can have an acceptable appearance though.

[RJS1977]

Not on the RailAdvent list (yet) but Ruislip Lido Railway due to reopen 4th July https://www.ruisliplidorailway.org/

 

I'v also had an email from the Railway Touring Company advising they intend to start running tours in August.

[Boris]

23 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

How terrible; no not the sanitizer, but the purple seats!

Nice seat base in the photo though

 

[Bon Accord]

An interesting titbit from the latest issue of Steam Railway which dropped through the door this morning.

In light of the decision this month in England and subsequently Scotland to insist on facemasks being worn on public transport coupled with the prospect of several preserved lines re-opening, SR asked the DfT if preserved lines and mainline tours would be exempted from the requirement for all passengers to wear face masks.

The answer it seems was a firm no.

I certainly wouldn't visit a preserved railway/go on a main line tour if I was faced with the prospect of having to wear a face mask for hours (perhaps 8+ if on a mainline tour) especially on a warm sunny day, and I doubt many other people would find it much fun either. Not forgetting the impact this will have on the lucrative dining side of things on both preserved lines and the mainline.

In the long run I can't see how it would make Santa Specials particularly viable either.

[Steamport Southport]

21 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

An interesting titbit from the latest issue of Steam Railway which dropped through the door this morning.

In light of the decision this month in England and subsequently Scotland to insist on facemasks being worn on public transport coupled with the prospect of several preserved lines re-opening, SR asked the DfT if preserved lines and mainline tours would be exempted from the requirement for all passengers to wear face masks.

The answer it seems was a firm no.

I certainly wouldn't visit a preserved railway/go on a main line tour if I was faced with the prospect of having to wear a face mask for hours (perhaps 8+ if on a mainline tour) especially on a warm sunny day, and I doubt many other people would find it much fun either. Not forgetting the impact this will have on the lucrative dining side of things on both preserved lines and the mainline.

In the long run I can't see how it would make Santa Specials particularly viable either.

 

However that can and will be ditched at a moments notice if it's safe to do so.

 

It's the Governments call when that happens. Unfortunately with devolution, people are getting conflicted messages and some pig-headedness and playing political games from certain individuals isn't helping.

 

Such as the WAG saying Wales is open for business, but you can't go more than five miles and the place you are going to may not be open either....

 

 

 

Jason

[Gilbert]

42 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

An interesting titbit from the latest issue of Steam Railway which dropped through the door this morning.

In light of the decision this month in England and subsequently Scotland to insist on facemasks being worn on public transport coupled with the prospect of several preserved lines re-opening, SR asked the DfT if preserved lines and mainline tours would be exempted from the requirement for all passengers to wear face masks.

The answer it seems was a firm no.

I certainly wouldn't visit a preserved railway/go on a main line tour if I was faced with the prospect of having to wear a face mask for hours (perhaps 8+ if on a mainline tour) especially on a warm sunny day, and I doubt many other people would find it much fun either. Not forgetting the impact this will have on the lucrative dining side of things on both preserved lines and the mainline.

In the long run I can't see how it would make Santa Specials particularly viable either.

I have previously asked one of the tour operators the very question as I am booked on a dining service in August and received the following response:

Good Morning

Face coverings are now mandatory on station platforms and public transport, however this doesn’t apply to our train as we are not classed as a public service but you would still need to wear them on the platform.

Regards

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Gilbert

[Reorte]

It's been decided they're needed on ordinary service trains so it would be hard to justify making an exception for heritage ones, still lots of people in the same vehicle (albeit without aircon and not as crowded).

[Gilbert]

That's a fair point but I'm more concerned about the scrum on the platform taking pictures of the steam engine...

[Bon Accord]

21 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

I have previously asked one of the tour operators the very question as I am booked on a dining service in August and received the following response:

Good Morning

Face coverings are now mandatory on station platforms and public transport, however this doesn’t apply to our train as we are not classed as a public service but you would still need to wear them on the platform.

Regards

 

 

It would seem that DfT differ as to their definition of public transport.

According to the article, when questioned by SR, the DfT spokesman apparently confirmed that the face covering ruling applied to passengers "travelling on heritage railways and on steam hauled charters".

With regard to railtours specifically, there was further clarification that "charter services, if available to the public, are included in the definition of public transport for the purposes of these regulations".

The Heritage Railway Association is apparently seeking clarification on the matter and/or an exemption.

 

[Bon Accord]

39 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

However that can and will be ditched at a moments notice if it's safe to do so.

 

It's the Governments call when that happens. Unfortunately with devolution, people are getting conflicted messages and some pig-headedness and playing political games from certain individuals isn't helping.

 

Such as the WAG saying Wales is open for business, but you can't go more than five miles and the place you are going to may not be open either....

 

 

 

Jason

 

Unless there is a vaccine and it has been widely adopted, I honestly can't see why the ruling would be changed, especially since this week has seen the first weekly increase in cases in Europe for some months.

Whitty effectively stated on the daily briefing the other day that he expects the current measures to last into next year.

As for devolution, I think you'll find many individuals within those countries are rather thankful for the more careful approach taken, something that's reflected rather starkly in the current approval poll ratings for each of the respective individuals and governments. No prizes for guessing who comes off worst.

[rab]

1 hour ago, Bon Accord said:

An interesting titbit from the latest issue of Steam Railway which dropped through the door this morning.

In light of the decision this month in England and subsequently Scotland to insist on facemasks being worn on public transport coupled with the prospect of several preserved lines re-opening, SR asked the DfT if preserved lines and mainline tours would be exempted from the requirement for all passengers to wear face masks.

The answer it seems was a firm no.

I certainly wouldn't visit a preserved railway/go on a main line tour if I was faced with the prospect of having to wear a face mask for hours (perhaps 8+ if on a mainline tour) especially on a warm sunny day, and I doubt many other people would find it much fun either. Not forgetting the impact this will have on the lucrative dining side of things on both preserved lines and the mainline.

In the long run I can't see how it would make Santa Specials particularly viable either.

If face masks are necessary for someone making a journey of say an hour,

surely they are even more necessary on an eight hour journey.

 

Why does every one think their case is an exception.

We are (supposed to be) all in this together.

The sooner we all pull together,the sooner

we'll all be out of this horrible situation

Edited June 25, 2020 by rab

[MartinWales]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

However that can and will be ditched at a moments notice if it's safe to do so.

 

It's the Governments call when that happens. Unfortunately with devolution, people are getting conflicted messages and some pig-headedness and playing political games from certain individuals isn't helping.

 

Such as the WAG saying Wales is open for business, but you can't go more than five miles and the place you are going to may not be open either....

 

 

 

Jason

I think you will find it's Whitehall's non communications to the devolved governments, that's at the root of this, not the other way around, as some decisions have been made without consulting the rest of the UK. The devolved assemblies are still responsible for the care of their citizens

 

Also the R rate is higher in certain parts of the North West. Indeed we had a localized outbreak on Anglesey this week, together with one in Wrexham 

[Gilbert]

9 minutes ago, rab said:

If face masks are necessary for someone making a journey of say an hour,

surely they are even more necessary on an eight hour journey.

 

Why does every one think their case is an exception.

We are (supposed to be) all in this together.

The sooner we all pull together,the sooner

we'll all be out of this horrible situation

Given I expect 4 ot those 8 hours to be eating.....I'm certainly considering whether I cancel or not....

[rab]

18 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Given I expect 4 ot those 8 hours to be eating.....I'm certainly considering whether I cancel or not....

I agree eating could be difficult,

and even more important -drinking !

[caradoc]

Given that some Train Operators (eg Avanti West Coast on their Pendolinos) are still selling food and drink on board, presumably it is acceptable to remove the face covering to allow consumption ?

 

[Gilbert]

2 hours ago, Gilbert said:

I have previously asked one of the tour operators the very question as I am booked on a dining service in August and received the following response:

Good Morning

Face coverings are now mandatory on station platforms and public transport, however this doesn’t apply to our train as we are not classed as a public service but you would still need to wear them on the platform.

Regards

 

Their response today is as follows..not helpful...

We are sorry but its not possible for us to confirm the accuracy of a statement not made by our company.

Regards

[EmporiaSub]

I wasn’t aware face coverings were mandatory on station platforms?
As far as I’m aware, the legislation is once you join a train, bus etc.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, EmporiaSub said:

I wasn’t aware face coverings were mandatory on station platforms?
As far as I’m aware, the legislation is once you join a train, bus etc.

Correct.

 

Face coverings are only mandatory whilst on the mode of public transport in question.  They are not required whilst on or about stations including waiting on platforms though are advised for under-cover and indoor areas if you cannot maintain 2m social distancing.   They are not requires waiting at bus or tram stops nor ferry terminals.  Airport terminals may have their own requirements which can be more stringent than government advice. 

 

Station staff in most situations and staff who do not interact with passengers (drivers, track gangs and others) are also exempt in most circumstances from wearing face coverings although many choose to do so.  There are daily comments on social media about bus drivers not covering up (they too are exempt) and criticism directed to cases where a genuine exemption exists.  There are also reports of agency staff "requiring" those entering stations to cover up but this is over and above the legislation and not enforceable.  

 

It is permitted to remove a face covering when it is "reasonably necessary to eat, drink or take medication" which would cover the operation of dining trains other things being equal; the revised 1m+ social distancing from 4th July in England should give enough leeway for all window seats to be occupied and potentially adjacent ones around a table of four if those opposite were not in use.  That still only offers around 50% capacity which may well not reach break-even for dining charters but it's a big step forward from 0% and no charters.  

[RJS1977]

3 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

 

It is permitted to remove a face covering when it is "reasonably necessary to eat, drink or take medication" which would cover the operation of dining trains other things being equal; the revised 1m+ social distancing from 4th July in England should give enough leeway for all window seats to be occupied and potentially adjacent ones around a table of four if those opposite were not in use.  That still only offers around 50% capacity which may well not reach break-even for dining charters but it's a big step forward from 0% and no charters.  

 

WCRC are planning for alternate tables for four along either side of the aisle. along with two seats for single travellers in each carriage.

[Bon Accord]

13 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

It is permitted to remove a face covering when it is "reasonably necessary to eat, drink or take medication" which would cover the operation of dining trains other things being equal; the revised 1m+ social distancing from 4th July in England should give enough leeway for all window seats to be occupied and potentially adjacent ones around a table of four if those opposite were not in use.  That still only offers around 50% capacity which may well not reach break-even for dining charters but it's a big step forward from 0% and no charters.  

 

I doubt that the condition of food/drink consumption being "reasonably necessary" can realistically be used as an excuse for somewhat sedentary 3/4 course meals perhaps twice during the course of a charter.

Whilst it doesn't explicitly state so, I imagine the gist of that legislation is aimed at small, necessary snacks on long journeys.

[Gilbert]

3 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

 

I doubt that the condition of food/drink consumption being "reasonably necessary" can realistically be used as an excuse for somewhat sedentary 3/4 course meals perhaps twice during the course of a charter.

Whilst it doesn't explicitly state so, I imagine the gist of that legislation is aimed at small, necessary snacks on long journeys.

 

That is what is happening from mid-July

[Gwiwer]

Where there is a will there is a way.

 

Dining charters are just that - maybe an interesting route or motive power but the primary reason for them is the dining experience.  So they will be several hours in duration.  IT should be possible to manage 1m+ kitchen operation at most times and since railtours of all kinds are normally prepaid there is no cash transaction on board - unless it's a top-up from the bar.  

 

Service will inevitably require closer personal contact but those required to serve and clear tables can be provided with clear face shields as we have seen pubs preparing to use.  

 

If restaurants are permitted to open - which they are from dates in July according to location and with the required precautions in place - then "restaurant trains" should not be an insuperable obstacle.  I understand that the DfT considers all trains to be "public transport" and face coverings may be required before and after meal service but representations are being made (including by, possibly not limited to, the HRA) to have an understanding in place that dining tours are simply a restaurant which moves; they are not "public transport" in the sense of being open to all upon demand for travel between two points.  

[steve45]

Back on topic..............Swanage Railway planning to re-open mid July

 

https://swanagerailway.co.uk/re-opening-services