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Heritage Railways Starting To Reopen


RJS1977
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On 21/07/2020 at 11:39, Wheatley said:

Re whether Heritage Railways are public transport or not, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020 state (my bold):

 

(2) “Public transport service” means any service for the carriage of passengers from place to place which is available to the general public ... but does not include—

 (a) a school transport service;

 (b) a taxi or private hire vehicle service;

 (c) any service provided by means of a cruise ship

 

 

However if people can only disembark (or at least, leave the station) at the point at which they started their journey, technically there's no difference between that and things like miniature railways, circular demonstration lines (like the demo lines at the Pallot Museum in Jersey, the old line at Thursford, a theme park roller coaster, or even Catch-If-Catch-Can at Euston!). A loophole, perhaps, but technically it's not taking passengers from one place to another.

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On 27/07/2020 at 18:34, RJS1977 said:

 

However if people can only disembark (or at least, leave the station) at the point at which they started their journey, technically there's no difference between that and things like miniature railways, circular demonstration lines (like the demo lines at the Pallot Museum in Jersey, the old line at Thursford, a theme park roller coaster, or even Catch-If-Catch-Can at Euston!). A loophole, perhaps, but technically it's not taking passengers from one place to another.

Isnt their a VAT implication too, if its a “train ride” or “a service” requiring stations for passengers to make a journey, rather than a fairground ride ?

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3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Isnt their a VAT implication too, if its a “train ride” or “a service” requiring stations for passengers to make a journey, rather than a fairground ride ?

 

Yes, there is. I don't know whether this will affect lines which have formerly operated with passengers boarding/alighting at different stations but who now only board or alight at one end.

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Lovely engine that.

 

Always reminds me of the Betjeman poem written about the Slough Industrial Estate.

 

Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Slough
It isn't fit for humans now,
There isn't grass to graze a cow
Swarm over, Death!

Come, bombs, and blow to smithereens
Those air-conditioned, bright canteens,
Tinned fruit, tinned meat, tinned milk, tinned beans
Tinned minds, tinned breath.

Mess up the mess they call a town -
A house for ninety-seven down
And once a week for half-a-crown
For twenty years,

And get that man with double chin
Who'll always cheat and always win,
Who washes his repulsive skin
In women's tears,

And smash his desk of polished oak
And smash his hands so used to stroke
And stop his boring dirty joke
And make him yell.

But spare the bald young clerks who add
The profits of the stinking cad;
It's not their fault that they are mad,
They've tasted Hell.

It's not their fault they do not know
The birdsong from the radio,
It's not their fault they often go
To Maidenhead

And talk of sports and makes of cars
In various bogus Tudor bars
And daren't look up and see the stars
But belch instead.

In labour-saving homes, with care
Their wives frizz out peroxide hair
And dry it in synthetic air
And paint their nails.

Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Slough
To get it ready for the plough.
The cabbages are coming now;
The earth exhales.

 

 

 

Jason

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The Welshpool & Llanfair Light Railway re-opened on 1st August. For the time being trains are only running from Llanfair to Castle Caereinion & Return. To maintain effective soicla distancing tickets must be pre-booked and the carriages are cleaned after every trip.
To book tickets please visit www.wllr.org.uk/book-tickets

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Mangapps reopened last weekend and have started a trial of opening on a Wednesday afternoon - and as I happened to have a rare day off I bimbled down to say hello as it had been far too long since my previous visit. Wow John and his team have made some huge changes. I've been following on Facebook so seen photos but the amount of covered storage now is enormous.

 

There are regular hand gel stations, including wipes and bins, there are clear signs everywhere and one way systems set up. When you enter you are allocated a compartment number. Two coaches were in use, ex GNR E43178E and a Mk1 Suburban. I got lucky and my favourite was on the motive power - D2325.

 

I was very quickly reminded WHY I like Mangapps so much - the staff and volunteers are so friendly. People I hadn't spoken to in years were happy to chat away.

 

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Had an enjoyable day on the IOWSR, whilst on holiday on the island.

The procedure is you join at Havenstreet, and book a round trip, including running non-stop from Smallbrook to Wootton.

You are then allocated a compartment. However, you can join at either Wootton or Smallbrook, but you cannot book online or just turn up and go. We joined at Wootton, as we use the buses when on the island. The lady taking the bookings arranged everything, as we wanted two round trips, with a break at Havenstreet for a look around, along with a bite to eat from the outside cafe (as the restaurant is closed). And I spent money in the shop too....

As regards the actual travel, there was an empty compartment for us at Wootton. 
On arrival at Havenstreet, staff open the doors to allow staggered alighting, to avoid bunching at the exit.

They then clean the compartments. Passengers leave the platform by turning left towards the waiting room, whilst joining the train is via the other side of the track. There is another crossing now opened up for moving between either side.

Not quite the same as previous, but a good arrangement for the current ‘normal’.

From what I could see, the majority of people seemed happy with everything.

 

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5 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Had an excellent day at Statfold Barn yesterday...70060A64-28F9-45F4-8464-C8F99EE3F194.jpeg.328e81b296be994cc4b67e855919e636.jpeg

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I can't believe how quickly they got the K1 running again! I swear, you could give Statfold 4 wheels and a bucket of rust and they'd give you a running loco a year later :)

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Some really great pics there folks.  Tanfield Railway re-started last Sunday, you need to book a compartment at a price of £30, in advance, but that can be for a party of up to 8.  Will just be the wife and myself but all in a good cause to support the railway.    On the upside, they are fully booked throughout August which shows that they are receiving a good response from the public.  The downside for us though is that we will need to wait till September for our first ride of 2020 on a heritage railway.

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I went to Crich on Wednesday - had to queue for about 10 minutes to pay and book a tram ride, but the whole process was pretty slick. Once in, pretty much the entire site is open, although you can't wander round the depot as before (but can take photos from outside). This is the museum building, spot the one way markers on the floor.

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All in all a good day. I also took a walk up the High Peak trail from Cromford Wharf, sadly the Museum there in the old loco shed is closed, and the Steeple Grange light railway further up the line isn't opening this year. 

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The Keighley & Worth Valley Railway resumed running trains on 19 August - there and backs from Oxenhope or Keighley.  That meant a chance to travel in some non-corridor stock; the VCT's Metropolitan Railway No.427 in our case.

 

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Still plenty of these secreted about the railway:

 

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Simon

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I did my first (and last) preserved railway visit yesterday for a little while.

its all to clinical for me. This isnt meant to be a rant, just a summary of experience.

 

I wont name the line, as its not fair, but the experience was:

 

Buy seat of 4 in advance.

Arrive 20 minutes before departure

Queue outside the station.

Once the train is ready you are marched to your assigned seats.

All windows closed.

Masks must be worn.
The seat groups have raised partitions above the seat backs.

no standing, no toilets, no shop, no photographs, no cafe, no loitering on the platform.. your told to immediately board the train and seat.

Train departs, non-stop to the other end, passing one stationary at a loop enroute, intermediate stations were closed.

No TTI passed through the train, buffet was not on the train, all instructions were conveyed from the platforms.

At the other end your told to remain seated (though passengers already went to the doors, they were told not to immediately deboard).

Your called by carriage to exit.

Escorted directly off the train and out of the station, again no toilets, no shop, no photographs, no cafe, no loitering on the platform.. your told to immediately Leave. (the uniformed platform staff said it like a drill Sargent before calling the coach number).

 

This is the first time Ive ever been to a preserved line where Ive not been able to take a picture*, the reason given was the urgency to clear the platforms of all guests, as until the platform was clear, cleaning could not start, and thus poses a delay to boarding. Tbh the staff come across as somewhat scared of their passengers.

 

Return journey was the same, except we were looped to allow the other direction to pass (but you weren’t allowed to offboard, stand at a window and watch anyway).

 

I get it, i’m not going to argue, but I don't like it, so tomorrows visit to another line, and saturday’s to a third have been canceled, as the story sounded familiar as to what to expect there too.   Passengers numbers were healthy enough, indeed the return was full all seats, all table bays of 4, both sides of the mk1, throughout all 5 coaches were in use, though it lacked the atmosphere, I think many passengers were a bit overwhelmed or even made scared by the experience, generally sat silent and immediately exited the station.

tbh It felt like a fairground ride, without the thrill, I may visit for photography purposes but stay away as a passenger for now, but its a long way for how people travel on national rail every day, but for me a little bit too far removed. I get the need for safety, but its lost at expense of the very reason it exists.. entertainment.

 

* I did manage a couple of cheeky pictures once outside the fence, but run round was so fast it wasn’t possible to get anything worthwhile, or a family photo.

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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16 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I did my first (and last) preserved railway visit yesterday for a little while.

its all to clinical for me. This isnt meant to be a rant, just a summary of experience.

 

...

 

I get it, i’m not going to argue, but I don't like it, so tomorrows visit to another line, and saturday’s to a third have been canceled, as the story sounded familiar as to what to expect there too.  

 

Not all lines are like that! That seems much stricter than we've got at the MHR:

 

Book tickets in advance

You're encouraged to arrive around 20 minutes before, but you won't be turned away if you arrive earlier (particularly at Alresford which has a cafe) - though you won't be able to board the train until cleaning has finished, but you're welcome on the platform to take photos (subject to socially distancing, obviously).

Allocated seating for the duration of your visit - generally alternate bays in use so that you're not sitting opposite an unrelated group.

1.5 round trips for each booking.

One way system in the train (enter through the middle doors, leave through the ends on a typical Mk1 TSO)

Windows generally open - platform staff open and close the doors and sanitize the handles each time

Cafes are open, along with a pop-up shop at Ropley.

Each service has a 40-minute layouver at Ropley to allow you to take photos, visit the sheds, cafe, shop, toilets etc.

No on-train toilets, but plenty on the stations.

You do have to wear masks (that's the law, it's not down to individual railways to decide)

Edited by Nick C
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21 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I did my first (and last) preserved railway visit yesterday for a little while.

its all to clinical for me. This isnt meant to be a rant, just a summary of experience.

 

 

That does sound like a rather unappealing experience - but I don't think it is universal. 

 

By way of comparison, we went to the Isle of Wight steam railway yesterday, and it was excellent!  All facilities were open, with reasonable alterations (sit out vs sit in catering, controlled numbers in the shop, masks needed for inside areas).  No restrictions on when you could turn up or leave. You do have to reserve a specific train, but they are using compartment stock, so no masks required on board. A simple queue to get on, and waiting until the guard opens the door on return means the numbers on the platform are really managed.

 

Their excellent 'train story' museum is open, as was the catering, shop, kids play park, and onsite woodland walks.  We spent a good four hours including the 1hr train ride.  Plenty of chance to sit and eat ice cream whilst the pair of 2MTs bustled up and down the line ready to be photographed!

 

Didcot (where - full disclosure - I am a volunteer rather than paying visitor) are running a similar system, and it seems to work equally well. 

 

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Visited Beamish last Thursday. Book in advance, time slot for entry.

 

Everyone wore face masks to gain entry to the site and anywhere indoors people put them on without being asked.

 

Only mode of transport was shanks' pony. No trams, trains or buses running but as it was a nice day it was a very pleasant experience. I had hoped they might have the Lewin parked outside the shed but alas no. 

 

Chip shop was open as was bread shop and the Welfare Hall  - where we collected our pre ordered sandwich lunch. No work on the various buildings under construction but lots of staff are furloughed. A nice day and we will be back with our annual tickets.

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Visited La’al Ratty for the first time since 1976 last week .... still as much fun. Glad I booked a compartment in a coach with a roof .... it was a bit wet!

 

 

 

Edited by Phil Bullock
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7 hours ago, FraserClarke said:

 

That does sound like a rather unappealing experience - but I don't think it is universal. 

 

By way of comparison, we went to the Isle of Wight steam railway yesterday, and it was excellent!  All facilities were open, with reasonable alterations (sit out vs sit in catering, controlled numbers in the shop, masks needed for inside areas).  No restrictions on when you could turn up or leave. You do have to reserve a specific train, but they are using compartment stock, so no masks required on board. A simple queue to get on, and waiting until the guard opens the door on return means the numbers on the platform are really managed.

 

Their excellent 'train story' museum is open, as was the catering, shop, kids play park, and onsite woodland walks.  We spent a good four hours including the 1hr train ride.  Plenty of chance to sit and eat ice cream whilst the pair of 2MTs bustled up and down the line ready to be photographed!

 

Didcot (where - full disclosure - I am a volunteer rather than paying visitor) are running a similar system, and it seems to work equally well. 

 

 

It was off putting to say the least, it just seemed very harshly implemented.

At the same time the staff did seem genuinely fearful of passengers.

 

That in turn affected passengers moods (I felt that maybe I had taken an undue risk by travelling, seeing everything spelt / acted out ), yet everywhere else around that town that day was pretty much relaxed “new normal”...life as usual but with masks, spacing and gel.

 

Just strange.

 

I’m pleased by the efforts made to sanitise coaches, the adding of extra height separations etc, but I like to meander around, look at the efforts made, ongoing or to be started on anything from structures to signage to the stock. Being able to look at the loco, stand at a window, look in the shop and just sit have a drink at the cafe or even moan at the dingy loos. There wasn't any of that.

 

Everyone was polite, but wanted you to have the least presence / interaction on the railway as possible.. I could even live with all stations being closed except each end. but it was the clinical wait outside, board, ride, immediate exit, it was very a strange atmosphere, not even the shop or cafe were being promoted, I felt I had been processed.

 

Lines need to be careful not to be too in your face with restrictions, they need to be welcoming, and need to give at least a minimum of level escapism from reality as possible.. afterall thats why people visit, for the atmosphere. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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Whether the shop and cafe are open will depend on volunteer availability (remember most will normally be manned by volunteers who may well be in the 'vulnerable' age group) and also how easy it is to implement social distancing on the premises.

 

Spooner's cafe at Porthmadog is doing sufficiently well that the FR has had to park some coaches in the WHR platform to create extra covered seating space!

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On 27/08/2020 at 00:21, adb968008 said:

 

It was off putting to say the least, it just seemed very harshly implemented.

At the same time the staff did seem genuinely fearful of passengers.

 

That in turn affected passengers moods (I felt that maybe I had taken an undue risk by travelling, seeing everything spelt / acted out ), yet everywhere else around that town that day was pretty much relaxed “new normal”...life as usual but with masks, spacing and gel.

 

Just strange.

 

That sounds like they need to learn two things recently stated by a colleague of mine.

1. Public Transport is not dangerous.

2. Other people are not dirty.

Many other descriptions on this thread show how it SHOULD be done.

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