Seep PM1 Point Motor to Signal Route Indicator?

[Sir TophamHatt]

Hello

 

Can a PM1 point motor signal (or power?) a route indicator?

 

If so, can someone tell me how this works? How does the point know which way is "correct" for the route indicator to show?

 

The signal will be powered and operated in a different way so it's just the route indicator that I want as a sort of indicator on whether a point is set to diverge the train or not.

 

Cheers!

[RFS]

Are you using its polarity switch? If not you can use that. I followed the same principle but with the second built-in switch on my Tortoise motors. When I set the signal to green, the output goes direct to the green connection, and also to the route indicator but via the switch on the Tortoise. Thus the indicator only comes on if the signal is green and the diverging route is set.

 

You could use the Seep switch to do the same thing. 

[Jaggzuk]

www.brian-lambert.co.uk is always a good source for all things model raiwlay electrical info  https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_3.html#Bookmark6  for Seep PM1 route indicator.

[Sir TophamHatt]

6 hours ago, RFS said:

Are you using its polarity switch?

 

No? I don't think so 

 

While I'm using DCC for the tracks, the points are all DC controlled with a good old toggle switch so it's a bit of a separate system.

 

But I don't think the polarity is wired up as it's not needed. To be honest, I don't think I'll ever need to use the polarity switching facility as I'll probably never design my track in such a way to need it - I guess it's needed if you have a single line with a loop at the end, heading back to the single line?

[RFS]

3 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

 

No? I don't think so 

 

While I'm using DCC for the tracks, the points are all DC controlled with a good old toggle switch so it's a bit of a separate system.

 

But I don't think the polarity is wired up as it's not needed. To be honest, I don't think I'll ever need to use the polarity switching facility as I'll probably never design my track in such a way to need it - I guess it's needed if you have a single line with a loop at the end, heading back to the single line?

 

My suggestion was simply to use the switch on the Seep for the signal, so long as you were not using it for frog polarity.

[Jaggzuk]

It is what Brian Lambert shows in the link I sent.  Usng the 3 spare conenctions of the Seep PM1 motor to drive a pair of direction LEDs or in your case the Signal route indicator.

 

Wire up like this diagram below, where the Red and Green Signal LEDs are your signal route indicator display.

 

 

Hope this helps?

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 17/06/2020 at 09:09, Jaggzuk said:

It is what Brian Lambert shows in the link I sent.  Usng the 3 spare conenctions of the Seep PM1 motor to drive a pair of direction LEDs or in your case the Signal route indicator.

 

Wire up like this diagram below, where the Red and Green Signal LEDs are your signal route indicator display.

 

 

Hope this helps?

 

Hiya

Back on this again.

 

So the red and green wires going to the "LEDs in panel", would both connect to the route indicator? Or just the green wire?

 

How does the route indicator know when to come on? Or is it a case of if the point is thrown and the route indicator isn't on, swap it for the red wire and then it should work properly?

 

For the avoidance of doubt, better terminology would be a "feather" on the signal itself.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Sir TophamHatt

[ejstubbs]

On 17/06/2020 at 05:31, Sir TophamHatt said:

To be honest, I don't think I'll ever need to use the polarity switching facility as I'll probably never design my track in such a way to need it - I guess it's needed if you have a single line with a loop at the end, heading back to the single line?

 

External frog polarity switching is nothing to do with the topology of the track.  If you aren't using external switching, the frog polarity is still switched by the contact between the switch and stock rails.  The reason to do it externally is to improve reliability of running over the turnout by removing the dependency on good electrical contact between the switch and stock rails, and for subtler reasons to do with the possibility of shorts being created by wheels bridging between two rails of opposite polarity (which is more likely to trip out the controller if you're using DCC  - which I see you are - than DC).

 

What you're thinking about is reverse loop wiring, which is a different kettle of fish altogether and involves swapping the polarity of both rails on the single line (including the turnout) while train is in the reverse loop.

Edited January 13, 2021 by ejstubbs

[Izzy]

I don't know what signal you are using that has this feather, but I presume you have instructions on how to power it to light, just as with the main head. To do what you want I think it's best to think of it all separately, in isolation to any other wiring for the Seep or signal. That is what I usually do to be able to work out what I need to do in such circumstances.

 

In this case treat the switch on the Seep as an on/off one and arrange it that when the Seep is thrown so the feather route is set, the feather will light-up. Use the switch as one of the feather power feed wires. The Seep switch is a SPDT type in that it can connect two different pairs of wires, one of which is common, so will work as either a changeover one, the common feeding one of two wires, or in reverse a choice of feed to the common (as for frog polarity), or simply as an on/off with the common and one other depending on the Seep position and that needed. Use the centre connection plus one of the others to join up the power feed.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Izzy

[ejstubbs]

<ignore: finger trouble>

Edited January 13, 2021 by ejstubbs

[Sir TophamHatt]

On 13/01/2021 at 09:03, Izzy said:

I don't know what signal you are using that has this feather, but I presume you have instructions on how to power it to light, just as with the main head. To do what you want I think it's best to think of it all separately, in isolation to any other wiring for the Seep or signal. That is what I usually do to be able to work out what I need to do in such circumstances.

 

In this case treat the switch on the Seep as an on/off one and arrange it that when the Seep is thrown so the feather route is set, the feather will light-up. Use the switch as one of the feather power feed wires. The Seep switch is a SPDT type in that it can connect two different pairs of wires, one of which is common, so will work as either a changeover one, the common feeding one of two wires, or in reverse a choice of feed to the common (as for frog polarity), or simply as an on/off with the common and one other depending on the Seep position and that needed. Use the centre connection plus one of the others to join up the power feed.

 

The lighting board works as a unit so when the light is green, the feather is also lit but my layout (and most!), the feather would only be lit when the route is set that way.

I'll go back over the instructions but pretty sure there's nothing there :(

 

But yes, this is what's required.  The point motor already has connections that go to a off-on-off switch but can the point motor supply power to the feather while the point is set for a diverging route?  And if so, which A, B, C, D, E F should [the signal] be connected to for it to make this happen?

 

I guess @RFS means using connection F, which is the frog polarity.

[John ks]

This might do what you want

In the red box is the electrical equivalent of the seep switch

I coloured in the relevant parts of the seep switch 

In the position shown the green washer joins F to D

When the point motor changes the green washer slides along the yellow track, off the brown track & onto the dark brown track joining  F to E

 

When the point is set straight no power can get to the feather(contacts D & F are open)

 

IF the  3 way switch controlling the signal is in the green or yellow positions power can go through  one of the diodes  & to the common terminal (F) of the seep & if the point is set to curved then power will get to the Feather

 

This circuit is for a (-) common signal

If the signal has a common (+) then the connections to the power supply need to be reversed & the diodes also need to be reversed

If you are using a 2 aspect signal then delete any wiring associated with it (yellow led, 1 resistor & 1 diode)

 

John