Gwr Henry Pooly vans......what colour please. ??

[Brighty1674]

Hi there.....I am in the process of scratchbuilding a Pooley gwr ex “bloater” fish van ......the van is from the excellent Paul Bartlett photos  which are very good for detail......the question I would like to know is what colour would these vans be painted in GWR days....would they stay the same as the “bloater” ...brown, or would they have been painted gwr grey or did Pooly have their own colour.......I have looked on the internet And found some BR vans in different colours and read the excellent article “little didcot” by Castle but Do not seem to find what colour they would have been painted in GWR days.......any help would be gratefully received....

regards.......dave Brighty......

[WillCav]

I can't find anything written down on this.

 

I've only found pictures of diagram CC2 Pooley vans in GWR days. One photo from the 1940s has the monogram, the signwriting doesn't look white and the body looks a lighter shade than the frame. so I'll stick my neck out and say I think they were brown.

 

(Ducks quickly and runs away)

 

Will

[Miss Prism]

On 18/06/2020 at 13:32, Brighty1674 said:

the van is from the excellent Paul Bartlett photos

 

Reference please.

 

[Brighty1674]

Hi miss prism......here is the van...it looks to me that this could be the BR colour all be it very faded and scruffy, when converted would Pooly have left it brown as per the original colour of the “bloater” or had they their own colour scheme, I have since found a iron mink converted to one of their vans and it is gwr grey with the round all still present, your thoughts would be appreciated.....dave.....

[Miss Prism]

Thanks.

 

I can find no reference to a Pooley Van conversion from an S9 in GWR times.

 

The PB pic shows a standard BR(W) NPCCS livery of crimson and black ends.

 

[Brighty1674]

Thank you for your information, much appreciated, looks like it will be a BR Pooly van now  instead of GWR one....I have found the one Will saw the CC2 in Russell wagon book but as you say no sign of a “bloater” conversion for gwr......thank you again........dave Brighty......

[Zero Gravitas]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Thanks.

 

I can find no reference to a Pooley Van conversion from an S9 in GWR times.

 

The PB pic shows a standard BR(W) NPCCS livery of crimson and black ends.

 

 

At the risk of appearing controversial, and given the departmental numbering of DW150267; I’m tempted to say that’s actually the short-lived “gulf red” livery as applied for a relatively short period in the early 1960s.

[Miss Prism]

1 minute ago, Zero Gravitas said:

 

At the risk of appearing controversial, and given the departmental numbering of DW150267; I’m tempted to say that’s actually the short-lived “gulf red” livery as applied for a relatively short period in the early 1960s.

 

Ok. I know nothing about gulf red application.

 

[Mark Saunders]

14 hours ago, Zero Gravitas said:

 

At the risk of appearing controversial, and given the departmental numbering of DW150267; I’m tempted to say that’s actually the short-lived “gulf red” livery as applied for a relatively short period in the early 1960s.

 

It is the same livery that a number of Ballast Brakes based in the North East were carrying this livery till the late 1980's.

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerballastbrake/e3efd4828

 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerballastbrake/e37382084

[Penrhos1920]

DW150267 was converted in 1961 so could have been originally painted in gulf red.

 

In 1981 it was sold to the Dean Forest Railway.

[M.I.B]

"Shirtbutton" logos are only in yellow on brown stock.

 

If the van had been grey it would have had "GW" letters like ordinary freight vans.

 

 

[Brighty1674]

On 19/06/2020 at 19:49, Miss Prism said:

Thanks.

 

I can find no reference to a Pooley Van conversion from an S9 in GWR times.

 

The PB pic shows a standard BR(W) NPCCS livery of crimson and black ends.

 

Hi there............I am just at the stage with this wagon for painting and as can be seen from some of the quotes it could be that  H .Pooly  did not convert the bloater fish vans from gwr just iron minks .....the question I was asking is is there a definitive reference book or article that confirms when these “bloater” vans were converted to vans for H Pooly into BR stock or I am hoping that perhaps one van may have been converted in gwr days so that I can paint my wagon in gwr colours.......if not I will paint it in BR colours as per Paul Bartlett photos.........your assistance would be appreciated.....

[Brighty1674]

Hi there......I have decided to paint this wagon in gwr colours but I do appreciate that there is no conclusive proof that there was  one, I have looked through numerous books and it seems that it is possible there were a few converted large covered vans so I am happy to say it is a representation.......the wagon was based on a ken line chassis kit with the rest made from plasticard, brass strip from eileens emporium and the transfers were from black square decals who I find extremely good both in cost and quickness in supplying my order......next job is another Pooly van the small 10;foot planked van as per Mr Russell, GWR wagon book.....

[37114]

I don't know if this helps but sister van DW150236 was a very faded red by the time of this photo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol-re/7337167714/in/photolist-cbmUkC

 

[37114]

On 12/07/2020 at 13:31, Brighty1674 said:

Hi there......I have decided to paint this wagon in gwr colours but I do appreciate that there is no conclusive proof that there was  one, I have looked through numerous books and it seems that it is possible there were a few converted large covered vans so I am happy to say it is a representation.......the wagon was based on a ken line chassis kit with the rest made from plasticard, brass strip from eileens emporium and the transfers were from black square decals who I find extremely good both in cost and quickness in supplying my order......next job is another Pooly van the small 10;foot planked van as per Mr Russell, GWR wagon book.....

You have made a lovely job of the van. I hope to do one in 7mm in a year or 2

[Brighty1674]

Hi there 37114......thank you for your comments.....I really enjoyed making the wagon even though there seems to be no conclusive proof that there was one in gwr colours, but equally there does not seem to be any proof that there was not one in gwr colours, as I said earlier it is a representation of the wagon and I was very pleased with the outcome.......dave brighty.....

[NCB]

Was the van sold to Pooley or did it retain GWR ownership? If the latter, it should probably stay in GWR colours, even with Pooley branding.

Edited December 26, 2020 by NCB

[br2975]

The 'Pooley' vans were not in revenue stock, to which end I would contend they 'may' have been painted black in GWR ( and  BR ) days, as with other 'non-revenue' stock such as Loco Coal wagons and PW stock, and many shunters trucks.

.

'Pooley' survivors received the Gulf red livery, if required, although, I recall one still in black livery, parked alongside the Q.A.Dock, Cardiff circa 1976.

.

There is a photo of a LWB Mink conversion, DW15000, ( albeit an S&T Tool Van ), which stood for several years around 1970, opposite Platform 1 at Cardiff General and that van was painted black.

.

Brian R

 

https://flic.kr/p/YjCn2o

Edited January 7, 2021 by br2975

[Pete Bevan]

A good thing to do would be to ask Peter Bevan @   bevandesign@gmail.com  He is gened-up on these things.

[KeithMacdonald]

Goodness only know what the original colours were on this, the end looks like faded maroon, and the sides look brown.

 

:

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Goodness only know what the original colours were on this, the end looks like faded maroon, and the sides look brown.

 

 

:

This is what it looked like nearly 40 years ago. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/pooley/e2694867c

 

Paul

[Steamport Southport]

On 07/01/2021 at 16:10, br2975 said:

The 'Pooley' vans were not in revenue stock, to which end I would contend they 'may' have been painted black in GWR ( and  BR ) days, as with other 'non-revenue' stock such as Loco Coal wagons and PW stock, and many shunters trucks.

.

'Pooley' survivors received the Gulf red livery, if required, although, I recall one still in black livery, parked alongside the Q.A.Dock, Cardiff circa 1976.

.

There is a photo of a LWB Mink conversion, DW15000, ( albeit an S&T Tool Van ), which stood for several years around 1970, opposite Platform 1 at Cardiff General and that van was painted black.

.

Brian R

 

https://flic.kr/p/YjCn2o

 

When we stripped this down it was GWR Brown underneath layers of newer paint. ISTR there was evidence of lettering and a GWR shirtbutton roundel. So that's the colour it got painted.

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/article.php/237/no-82917-pooley-workshop-van

 

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9048

 

I can't remember what livery it was on purchase though. I have vague memories that it had received a coat of grey before restoration started.

 

 

Jason

[Marshall5]

When Derek Foster bought the Pooley Van from Central Wagon in 1978 it was painted in a faded red ... Gulf red perhaps as the attached photo (27.5.79) shows.  Apparently, although labelled for Chester, the van was used latterly at Bold Colliery and Pilkington's Cowley Hill works.

When Derek bought a larger ex Pooley van (converted from an LNW 6wh CCT) he sold the GWR van to Dave Rawlinson who, as Jason says, sanded off the red and previous coats down to bare wood.  I don't remember seeing brown but, being involved in other Steamport projects at the time, could have missed it.  As the van wasn't NPCS (it wasn't vacuum braked)  I would have thought that it would have been grey before conversion for Pooley's use - unless Pooley's had theirs painted brown pre Gulf red????  Unfortunately, as with all Dave's projects, bless him, the restoration was never finished.

Cheers,

Ray.