More model ideas

[Wickham Green too]

Indeed - has anyone mentioned the 'Buckjumper' family recently ?

[wombatofludham]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Mk2b/c coaches and an NIR 80 Class demu, the 2b-c stock satisfying the UK and Irish markets (plus Israel if you want to branch out) and being a missing link in the Mk2 story that Bachmann seem to be swerving around, but in any case with your level of detail, probably worth a punt (although I know you use Euro in Ireland now).

Quite a few livery options as well should make it a reasonable spread-bet.

[Wickham Green too]

Absolutely no point having NIR Mk2b coaches .................................

 

 

 

..... without a Hunslet ........................ or two.

[wombatofludham]

...although they did also run behind the 111 class.

But a Hunslet would be nice, my first trip to Ireland was for their farewell tour.

[Craig1989]

As you’ve done the pca and cemflo wagons how about the pca vee wagons 

[Suzy Sulzer]

We all have "wish lists" of models ,& today we have duplication of many Steam & Diesel Locomotives ,brought about by the shift towards the technological changes in the hobby. 

 

The said company have a nice marketing niche with there wagon packs & multi running numbers as we all know. Something other big 3 manufactures avoid. A 3 maybe 4 pack option is the best your get from other companies .Hopefully Accuscale will continue to do so with wagon production .Personally i hope they come away from open wagons & have a dabble with tank wagons & box vans. & more steam locos

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Suzy Sulzer

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, Suzy Sulzer said:

big 3

 

Who are the big 3? I'd have Dapol in there and they are very good at doing multiple running nos. In fact they have done 24 different HIAs, out of a total of 122 built.

 

9 hours ago, Craig1989 said:

As you’ve done the pca and cemflo wagons how about the pca vee wagons

 

Not that I need more cement wagons but these JGAs are cool IMO:

 

 

At least 3 liveries as well

 

 

 

[Suzy Sulzer]

Wasn't aware of Dapol doing that. but thanks. FYI i,ve purchased 30 odd 16t mineral wagons  since the launch of the Blue Ribbon range all with different running numbers. 

[Tugs]

On 05/07/2021 at 08:04, TomScrut said:

 

Who are the big 3? I'd have Dapol in there and they are very good at doing multiple running nos. In fact they have done 24 different HIAs, out of a total of 122 built.

 

 

Not that I need more cement wagons but these JGAs are cool IMO:

 

At least 3 liveries as well

 

 

 

 

Sign me up for these too

[Suzy Sulzer]

A high spec LMS 8F .

[Gremlin99]

On 05/07/2021 at 08:04, TomScrut said:

 

Who are the big 3? I'd have Dapol in there and they are very good at doing multiple running nos. In fact they have done 24 different HIAs, out of a total of 122 built.

 

 

Not that I need more cement wagons but these JGAs are cool IMO:

 

 

At least 3 liveries as well

 

 

 

The green and yellow Tarmac livery is lovely! They're very cool looking wagons which is definitely my #1 rule on my railway!

[Trainsandtravel]

So after seeing a GWR class 387 electrostar reach Cardiff, I thought to myself how much I would like a model of a class 387. @Accurascale FranI think these would be a great model to produce. I would buy several of these for my planned modern image model railway. Especially GWR and Gatwick express ones.

[SWT442]

Having had a little read through the last couple of pages, I see the want for units is still there in some capacity, along with the mention of them never being done due to complexity and cost. But I don't agree with that as an 'against' doing them.

 

The argument always is that there is normally 3 different bodyshells needed to do a 4-car unit, which costs too much to tool and therefore isn't justifiable. To me, the TPE MK5 set proves that that isn't really a valid reason, as it requires 3 different body shells, while also having fine detailing, lighting, DCC capability and a complex livery. There's a cab end car with all the lighting too, no different to a unit in my eyes. This can all be had for £225, or £45 a coach, not too shabby at all in this day and age! The nearest coach that competes features wise, to me, would be the Bachmann MK2F, which has an RRP of £70. A rake of 5 at that price comes in at £350, though no doubt will be less if you shop around, but still more than a TPE MK5 set.

 

With a unit, there is now obviously the cost of a drive train to factor in. If you want to say that it's basically the cost of a newly tooled locomotive, then that adds about £160 to the price tag. Being simple about it, and saying it'd basically be the cost of a TPE MK5 set plus loco means this mythical 4-car unit comes in at £385, which, while not 'cheap', is not much more than the excellent 3-car Bachmann Class 159. It's also not too far off the price of a Hornby Class 800 with it's 5 coaches, they certainly seem to sell pretty well!

 

As has been mentioned in this thread, a good modern 'bread and butter' EMU to do would probably be the Electrostar, though there's variations on cab fronts and body sides when they went from ribbon glazing to individual windows. The Class 319 could be an even better bet. Covers from the popular NSE era until the present day, with many liveries to keep it going for a good while. Plus, there's the option of doing them as Class 768 & 769 bi-modes. The underframes and bogies could also help pave the way for doing the other MK3 derived units of this era.

 

I'm obviously in the camp that want's more units, specifically 3rd rail stuff. You can probably tell what I'd be in the market for with my username! Whilst most don't have any 'sex appeal' compared to most locomotives, they are the bread and butter of the real railway and have been for a while. You can't really model certain areas properly without them.

 

Andy.

Edited July 31, 2021 by SWT442

[TravisM]

2 hours ago, SWT442 said:

Having had a little read through the last couple of pages, I see the want for units is still there in some capacity, along with the mention of them never being done due to complexity and cost. But I don't agree with that as an 'against' doing them.

 

The argument always is that there is normally 3 different bodyshells needed to do a 4-car unit, which costs too much to tool and therefore isn't justifiable. To me, the TPE MK5 set proves that that isn't really a valid reason, as it requires 3 different body shells, while also having fine detailing, lighting, DCC capability and a complex livery. There's a cab end car with all the lighting too, no different to a unit in my eyes. This can all be had for £225, or £45 a coach, not too shabby at all in this day and age! The nearest coach that competes features wise, to me, would be the Bachmann MK2F, which has an RRP of £70. A rake of 5 at that price comes in at £350, though no doubt will be less if you shop around, but still more than a TPE MK5 set.

 

With a unit, there is now obviously the cost of a drive train to factor in. If you want to say that it's basically the cost of a newly tooled locomotive, then that adds about £160 to the price tag. Being simple about it, and saying it'd basically be the cost of a TPE MK5 set plus loco means this mythical 4-car unit comes in at £385, which, while not 'cheap', is not much more than the excellent 3-car Bachmann Class 159. It's also not too far off the price of a Hornby Class 800 with it's 5 coaches, they certainly seem to sell pretty well!

 

As has been mentioned in this thread, a good modern 'bread and butter' EMU to do would probably be the Electrostar, though there's variations on cab fronts and body sides when they went from ribbon glazing to individual windows. The Class 319 could be an even better bet. Covers from the popular NSE era until the present day, with many liveries to keep it going for a good while. Plus, there's the option of doing them as Class 768 & 769 bi-modes. The underframes and bogies could also help pave the way for doing the other MK3 derived units of this era.

 

I'm obviously in the camp that want's more units, specifically 3rd rail stuff. You can probably tell what I'd be in the market for with my username! Whilst most don't have any 'sex appeal' compared to most locomotives, they are the bread and butter of the real railway and have been for a while. You can't really model certain areas properly without them.

 

Andy.

 

I've said this before, if Accurascale wanted to do a EMU, they wouldn't go far wrong with the Class 313, 314, 315, 507, 508 family as their first bite of the cherry.  As far as I'm aware, there's only three basic bodyshell's to cover, the DMSO, PTSO and the TSO.  The underframe would have slight differences, but think that would really be those with 3rd rail shoe gear, but there might be other detail differences I'm not aware of. 

 

What I think we need is modern ZWA Network Rail on-track machines such as tampers, from several different builders.  I think they would be very well received.

[Railfreight1998]

2 hours ago, jools1959 said:

 

What I think we need is modern ZWA Network Rail on-track machines such as tampers, from several different builders.  I think they would be very well received.

The trouble with more modern track machines is that there are so many types and variations that it's hard to make it viable to tool just one.

 

A good starting point might be the MFS-D and MFS-SB wagons that can often be seen without the associated ballast cleaning plant, and can be seen with almost any operators locos.

[it's-er]

Given Accurascale's proven ability in wagons, I am surprised no one has mentioned BR Anhydrite wagons, as used on the Long Meg to Widnes traffic flow, and then later in the Midlands.

 

They tick several boxes: there's the Settle - Carlisle line interest; they have all sorts of beams and shapes that are difficult to recreate one's self (I know Macgeordie of this parish produces a delightful kit, but building it is not for everyone); and they ran to Widnes, where Hattons are located today so they could be interested.  They ran in flows of 15, then 20, and later 26 wagons, so that is potentially a lot of sales ..... but I don't suppose most of us would, or could, buy a full rake!

 

John S

 

 

[mdvle]

7 hours ago, SWT442 said:

Having had a little read through the last couple of pages, I see the want for units is still there in some capacity, along with the mention of them never being done due to complexity and cost. But I don't agree with that as an 'against' doing them.

 

First, I agree that at least some of the longer dmu/emu classes are likely good candidates for successful models.

 

But I wouldn't be so quick to fault the manufactures for avoiding them - there is a very vocal contingent of modellers who don't like the prices on some items (witness the recent complaints around the pricing on a couple of recent retailer commissioned items on here, and also likely elsewhere).

 

7 hours ago, SWT442 said:

With a unit, there is now obviously the cost of a drive train to factor in. If you want to say that it's basically the cost of a newly tooled locomotive, then that adds about £160 to the price tag. Being simple about it, and saying it'd basically be the cost of a TPE MK5 set plus loco means this mythical 4-car unit comes in at £385, which, while not 'cheap', is not much more than the excellent 3-car Bachmann Class 159. It's also not too far off the price of a Hornby Class 800 with it's 5 coaches, they certainly seem to sell pretty well!

 

This is where the reality of the sales potential of different prototypes comes into play.

 

The Hornby Class 800, a model of prototype that is replacing the iconic HST, with wide geographic appeal (the GWR, the ECML to start and now expanding across a lot of the rest of England).

 

That's going to be a very different potential market than a unit that remained in a small geographic area and wasn't as glamorous.

 

7 hours ago, SWT442 said:

I'm obviously in the camp that want's more units, specifically 3rd rail stuff. You can probably tell what I'd be in the market for with my username! Whilst most don't have any 'sex appeal' compared to most locomotives, they are the bread and butter of the real railway and have been for a while. You can't really model certain areas properly without them.

 

But how many modellers are trying to accurately model certain geographic locations and era, vs just running trains they like?

 

Like I said at the beginning, I think there is a market for at least some longer multiple units - but I don't think the market is big enough that everyone who wants them will be happy with what ultimately is viable.

 

[Class 158 productions]

For wagons, I’d love to see a proper clay hood. With an actual representation of a hood, not a tea cosy. Or a clay liner wagon, big gaps in the market. 

[97406]

For the 40/50 debate, the latest Bachmann 40 is pretty good dimensionally these days, but the Hornby 50 is out by an amount, mainly around the cabs, so I’d love to see you do the 50. 

 

Also a class 304/5/8/504 EMU would be lovely as those cab windows are a devil to get right if you go down the DC kits/ replica suburban route.

[SWT442]

15 hours ago, mdvle said:

First, I agree that at least some of the longer dmu/emu classes are likely good candidates for successful models.

 

But I wouldn't be so quick to fault the manufactures for avoiding them - there is a very vocal contingent of modellers who don't like the prices on some items (witness the recent complaints around the pricing on a couple of recent retailer commissioned items on here, and also likely elsewhere).

 

So? Since the invention of money people have no doubt complained about the cost of things. People will complain if a tin of beans in Tesco goes up by 1p. I guess because a few people have said an item is just too much, according them, the manufacturers and retailers should pack up and go home? Unfortunately, the cost is only going one way whether we like it or not...

 

Now, I'm not immune from complaining about the price of things, myself and friends have had a whinge about the cost of things in this hobby outside of RMWeb. But it mostly always boiled down to the value for money of certain items. Some manufactures seem to charge the earth for old models with virtually no improvements, whilst introducing ones brand new from the ground up, for the same price. The Hornby MK3 is an example of this, the old slamdoor model introduced some 20 years ago has an RRP around £35. The brand new sliding door one, with all its R&D costs, finer detailing and features expected of a brand new model has an RRP that's the same. Either it's insanely cheap, or the old one is overpriced.

 

15 hours ago, mdvle said:

This is where the reality of the sales potential of different prototypes comes into play.

 

The Hornby Class 800, a model of prototype that is replacing the iconic HST, with wide geographic appeal (the GWR, the ECML to start and now expanding across a lot of the rest of England).

 

That's going to be a very different potential market than a unit that remained in a small geographic area and wasn't as glamorous.

 

An IEP, glamorous? It's literally just another unit. I certainly don't disagree that it was a good choice as a model for Hornby, as it does satisfy those who want stuff that's bang up to date and can see them flying past at their local station. If they didn't do it, someone else would have as it's a good one for future sales when other operators start picking them up.

 

15 hours ago, mdvle said:

But how many modellers are trying to accurately model certain geographic locations and era, vs just running trains they like?

 

Like I said at the beginning, I think there is a market for at least some longer multiple units - but I don't think the market is big enough that everyone who wants them will be happy with what ultimately is viable.

 

Quite a few I'd imagine. Even if it's someone who wants to do even a flavour of an era or location, you'll want specific things for it.  But even those who do model specific things no doubt have stuff that they run 'just because'. I suspect even the rivet counters aren't immune from Rule 1.

 

Even though I said my modelling influence is the Solent area, I'll still be getting a TPE MK5 set because it'll make a cracking train even though there's not even been a sniff of them going South. I've already got the TPE 68 standing by!

 

Andy.

[TomScrut]

17 hours ago, mdvle said:

But how many modellers are trying to accurately model certain geographic locations and era, vs just running trains they like?

 

I'd be interested to know the stats here. I am in the former category, for 2 reasons.

 

1. As a method to whittle down what to actually buy (I like far more on the market than I can afford, for example APT-E and APT-P I'd love but at about £800 between them I won't be getting when there's era 11 ECML stuff to buy, and my Azumas I should already have on my layout are going up by 10%)

2. I do see value in trying to recreate at lest an era or region as I do think it looks better, even on a layout with no scenery.

 

But I appreciate (and respect) that a lot of the market might be "I like it, I will have it" regardless of if it matches their other stuff.

 

58 minutes ago, SWT442 said:

Rule 1.

 

Rule 1 sorta works both ways though. Let's stuff into the layout but can also be used to ban stuff!

 

On 31/07/2021 at 15:35, SWT442 said:

The nearest coach that competes features wise, to me, would be the Bachmann MK2F, which has an RRP of £70.

 

Yes, but a Bachmann HKA was £60, an Accurascale HYA/IIA which are similar size, and probably complexity/quality are £37.50 a pop. Not a hope in hell I'd be buying a rake of 8 wagons at £60 each but at £75 a pair I have 2 rakes of 8 on order.

 

25 minutes ago, SWT442 said:

Unfortunately, the cost is only going one way whether we like it or not...

 

Yes, a lot if it is to do with value for money for me. Costs are up and I don't think it bodes well to be honest. It will become a never ending cycle of price increase-reduced sales/discounts needed-smaller runs-price increase IMO.

 

I do on the other hand think a lot of complaints about multiple units are ridiculous, it's almost like people think a 2 car DMU should be £30 more than a loco. I have been quite vocal about the Bachmann 150 releases but that is for the exact reasons you say in the quote below.

 

27 minutes ago, SWT442 said:

Some manufactures seem to charge the earth for old models with virtually no improvements, whilst introducing ones brand new from the ground up, for the same price.

 

 

[25901]

HEA and use the chassis for a RNA, falls into the current range.

[KDG]

21 hours ago, 25901 said:

HEA and use the chassis for a RNA, falls into the current range.

And the MEA / MFA would follow from that too

 

[Henners84]

Apologies, posted originally in the wrong place. Thoughts on accurascale making an hst to rival Hornby's rather tired but still quite expensive effort? Original discussion here... 

 

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, Henners84 said:

accurascale making an hst to rival Hornby's

 

I think it would need a lot of consideration, but probably would work. There are quite a few liveries that people seem pretty desperate for that rarely come up in the range. Original blue, IC Swallow and executive for starters where people with big layouts may want more than one set. Ones from privatisation Midland mainline franchises seem sought after too.

 

I also think if they did the tooling variations for the NMT and did it as an exclusive model (with an uplift vs standard HSTs to cover off some of the tooling and no dealer cut) it would do well too. NMT when Hornby does it costs say £400 ish when purchasing for something that isn't very accurate. I think people would pay quite a bit more for something accurate.