More model ideas

[Steamport Southport]

*cough*

 

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrsalt1958.htm

 

 

If the manufacturers can do things like P2s, W1s, GT3s, Fell and 18000 then surely a class of twenty that lasted for twenty years and nearly to the end of steam is viable.

 

 

Jason

[Covkid]

11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

*cough*

 

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrsalt1958.htm

 

 

If the manufacturers can do things like P2s, W1s, GT3s, Fell and 18000 then surely a class of twenty that lasted for twenty years and nearly to the end of steam is viable.

 

 

Jason

Ugglee Ugglee Ugglee !!!

But if someone of Accurascale's strengths and ambitions were to tackle the black five, they would almost certainly include this variant I think.

[Covkid]

12 hours ago, thohurst said:

Personally I'd love to see some more WCML traction come to market. The AM10/Class 310 seems right up Accurascale's lane, especially seeing as the AM10 is based on the MK2 design (Albeit the original design, not the mk2b). They'd have my wallet in tears if they did an original blue small yellow panel model!

 

Agree, and have commented upthread on the AM4, AM5, AM8 and possible class 504. 

 

If the mouldings could be versatile enough to cover all of the variants - green. blue, Metrotrain maroon, Regional Railways and GMPTE liveries with variants of yellow panels etc. The detail like refurbished windows and marker lights on the ends would probably require tooling slides, but could be easily handled by Accurascale's philosophy. As an example, if the flat fronted AM7 (307) could be encompassed then there would probably be scope for the EWS PCVs too.

 

It really is all down to money, and the rate it can be handed over in exchange for Accurascale products.  They certainly have gained the trust of the British and Irish modelling fraternity  

[Black 5 Bear]

14 minutes ago, Covkid said:

Ugglee Ugglee Ugglee !!!

But if someone of Accurascale's strengths and ambitions were to tackle the black five, they would almost certainly include this variant I think.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder lol !

[Helmdon]

Personally, and I'm already being spoilt with the forthcoming A5, but I'd love a GCR 1B/LNER L1/L3*. 

 

And they roamed more widely round the network than the A5s did.

 

*as if it's not complicated enough, they were L1 but then Thompson built his L1s, so the Robinson L1s became L3s....

[Paul.Uni]

12 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I know Bachmann were on with the 170 but seems to have gone quiet.

That is because Bachmann announced that they were omitted from the combined volume and the next we would hear about them would be if and when they are announced in the quarterly announcements.

 

[wombatofludham]

14 hours ago, thohurst said:

 

Personally I'd love to see some more WCML traction come to market. The AM10/Class 310 seems right up Accurascale's lane, especially seeing as the AM10 is based on the MK2 design (Albeit the original design, not the mk2b). They'd have my wallet in tears if they did an original blue small yellow panel model!

They couldn't go wrong though doing a well detailed black 5 or 8f, despite it being another duplication I think Hornby's tooling's for those particular models are dated enough that people would be after better looking and performing models, particularly with DCC features - surely the days of the 8-pin socket should be long gone by this point!

I'd argue that the 310 is probably a simpler project to tool up for than the 304-8 family which would require a "Swiss Army knife" moulding suite - even the 304s had two different pantograph well lengths for example - as, if we exclude the two units which ended up with differing driving trailer designs after accident damage repairs, the AM10-310 has fewer design changes, the most obvious being the two different types of cab windows, less obvious the lack of gangway between the trailer second and motor brake second prior to refurbishment, and of course spotlights on the front.  Clearly these minor changes are well within the capability of modern toolings.  In terms of liveries, you have (with curved windscreens) original "flat" blue with the yellow bib within the jumper housing, later gloss blue with half depth wrap round yellow panel, a few ran with full height yellow panels which wrapped round onto the cab doors, "normal" gloss blue with full yellow ends, blue grey, blue grey with NSE branding, and even one unit which retained original curved windscreens with full curved swoop NSE livery.  With flat windscreens and full gangways, Network Southeast (pale and darker blue, with different route brandings), Provincial "Sprinter" livery, "Midline" livery and Regional Railways.  That's quite a parade of loveliness to swoon over and probably offers some useful potential retailer commissions.

That was a party political broadcast for the Make an AM10 Now! Party.

[Ruston]

22 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

This thread is now getting into the usual discussion that has been had so many times, and usually leads to locking…

 

Roy

A discussion that always becomes about locomotives when there are far more interesting wagon subjects that have either never been done, or it's almost half a century since some of them were done and are in need of replacement.

[dj_crisp]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

A discussion that always becomes about locomotives when there are far more interesting wagon subjects that have either never been done, or it's almost half a century since some of them were done and are in need of replacement.

 

I agree - kicking off wagons - some proper china clay hoods would go down well with me!

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, Paul.Uni said:

That is because Bachmann announced that they were omitted from the combined volume and the next we would hear about them would be if and when they are announced in the quarterly announcements.

 

Yes, it doesn't mean to say they are doing it though?

[thohurst]

12 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

Agree, and have commented upthread on the AM4, AM5, AM8 and possible class 504. 

 

If the mouldings could be versatile enough to cover all of the variants - green. blue, Metrotrain maroon, Regional Railways and GMPTE liveries with variants of yellow panels etc. The detail like refurbished windows and marker lights on the ends would probably require tooling slides, but could be easily handled by Accurascale's philosophy. As an example, if the flat fronted AM7 (307) could be encompassed then there would probably be scope for the EWS PCVs too.

 

It really is all down to money, and the rate it can be handed over in exchange for Accurascale products.  They certainly have gained the trust of the British and Irish modelling fraternity  

I do think that the AM4/5/8 seems more like Bachmann's territory though with their extensive range of earlier DMU's and EMU's, plus they've already got the tooling for the bogies! 

[thohurst]

10 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I'd argue that the 310 is probably a simpler project to tool up for than the 304-8 family which would require a "Swiss Army knife" moulding suite - even the 304s had two different pantograph well lengths for example - as, if we exclude the two units which ended up with differing driving trailer designs after accident damage repairs, the AM10-310 has fewer design changes, the most obvious being the two different types of cab windows, less obvious the lack of gangway between the trailer second and motor brake second prior to refurbishment, and of course spotlights on the front.  Clearly these minor changes are well within the capability of modern toolings.  In terms of liveries, you have (with curved windscreens) original "flat" blue with the yellow bib within the jumper housing, later gloss blue with half depth wrap round yellow panel, a few ran with full height yellow panels which wrapped round onto the cab doors, "normal" gloss blue with full yellow ends, blue grey, blue grey with NSE branding, and even one unit which retained original curved windscreens with full curved swoop NSE livery.  With flat windscreens and full gangways, Network Southeast (pale and darker blue, with different route brandings), Provincial "Sprinter" livery, "Midline" livery and Regional Railways.  That's quite a parade of loveliness to swoon over and probably offers some useful potential retailer commissions.

That was a party political broadcast for the Make an AM10 Now! Party.

I think the AM10 could be a very smart Idea for Accurascale. If they do a 310 and a 312, they could cover a whole lot of territory without having to create to many tooling variations. 

[Michael Hodgson]

15 minutes ago, thohurst said:

I think the AM10 could be a very smart Idea for Accurascale. If they do a 310 and a 312, they could cover a whole lot of territory without having to create to many tooling variations. 

I've always liked the original version of the AM10s - the wrap-around windows were such an elegant design feature, but I think crashworthiness was an issue. 

 

But even if somebody does one in 4mm, I'll not be buying it because it wouldn't like right without the knitting and I don't like OHLE on a model as it is both fragile and a pain in the backside for access to the track for cleaning etc.  

[thohurst]

I've just had a thought. Seeing as Accurascale are doing a version of the mk2 coaches, perhaps they could tool up the Manchester Pullman set too! Now that would be excellent! Surely a good choice with Bachmann's 85 and Heljan's 86!

[Wickham Green too]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

..... a pain in the backside for .... track for cleaning etc.  

Personally I use my hands for track cleaning ................. takes all sorts I s'pose ! 

[The Black Hat]

21 hours ago, Helmdon said:

Personally, and I'm already being spoilt with the forthcoming A5, but I'd love a GCR 1B/LNER L1/L3*. 

 

And they roamed more widely round the network than the A5s did.

 

*as if it's not complicated enough, they were L1 but then Thompson built his L1s, so the Robinson L1s became L3s....

Problem is that if you go over the wishlists done a few years ago and compile the information available then the GCR and GNR come out as very poor relations in terms of popularity compared with the other grouping areas (NER and GER) that went into LNE. While there is popularity in new engines being announced - you still need to hit the areas where the demand exists. The A5 has succeeded in the fact that people will buy it for the LNE batch that were then built and so it also ran elsewhere. 

The advantage is that new model engines always get the new factor when a type not done before. Thus people buy them. This is great to begin with but then your hitting the novelty and niche aspects which can either encourage or discourage people from completing a collection. People buy the new ones, but then are discouraged from buying others that might be considered staple engines of the area. It can see areas suffer from oversaturation, as companies make lots of models for an area or period that is perceived to be popular. 

 

Still, I hope someone looks to eventually get the models you would like. GC for be has always seemed to buck the trend somehow, so you might be in luck after all. 

[Roy Langridge]

22 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

The advantage is that new model engines always get the new factor when a type not done before. Thus people buy them. This is great to begin with but then your hitting the novelty and niche aspects which can either encourage or discourage people from completing a collection. People buy the new ones, but then are discouraged from buying others that might be considered staple engines of the area. It can see areas suffer from oversaturation, as companies make lots of models for an area or period that is perceived to be popular. 

 

Which answers the question posed by somebody up-thread as to why existing models keep getting upgraded. There is core set of models that were numerous, widespread, lasted a good few years and which will sell, not just on released but for many years thereafter, something niche models will not. Manufacturers need a mix of the two, probably with the niche models only being viable because of the staple models.

 

I take your point about the niche models could damage sales of the staple ones, but I think this will be fairly limited. I say this because we still see those staple models being upgraded and released, if the money was not there, that would not happen.

Roy

 

 

[wombatofludham]

10 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I've always liked the original version of the AM10s - the wrap-around windows were such an elegant design feature, but I think crashworthiness was an issue. 

 

But even if somebody does one in 4mm, I'll not be buying it because it wouldn't like right without the knitting and I don't like OHLE on a model as it is both fragile and a pain in the backside for access to the track for cleaning etc.  

At the risk of introducing thread drift of Heineken proportions, when I installed Dapol OHLE on "Wednesford" (yes OHLE pedants, I know it's Mk3 OHLE when it should be Mk1 but bite me...) I fixed the wires to the registration arms of the masts with a tiny drop of superglue which has so far withstood my bungling track cleaning.  I also bought a Woodland Scenics track cleaning stick which has interchangeable pads for heavy duty rubbers or polishing, and has a swivel head to allow you to clean the track under wires, bridges and tunnels and is a nice bit of kit.  I daresay a clever handyperson could probably make their own with some dowling and a Peco track rubber but I bought the kit because I prefer to spend my time playing trains, not forcing myself to do punishments for being a ready to run box opener.

[Wickham Green too]

51 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Problem is that if you go over the wishlists done a few years ago and compile the information available then the GCR and GNR come out as very poor relations in terms of popularity compared with the other grouping areas (NER and GER) that went into LNE. ........

The same, of course, applies to some Companies within the other groups ...... BUT there's a significant element of "Nobody does stuff for the XYZ Railway - so I've never taken an interest in it." attitude : How many people were clamouring for SECR locos, carriages and wagons, for instance, before the C class appeared ??!? 

[Roy Langridge]

11 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I've always liked the original version of the AM10s - the wrap-around windows were such an elegant design feature, but I think crashworthiness was an issue. 

 

If I recall correctly they were changed on cost grounds. After a number of incidents where windows were broken by stones, toughened glass was required, but the cost of curved toughened glass was prohibitive.

Roy

[JohnR]

I dont know if its been talked about before (sorry I havnt read the whole thread), but something I think Accurascale might do is the humble 16T Steel Mineral.

 

They've got the whole "Powering Britain" series, from the Chaldrons to the HAAs, and theres a big gap with the 16T Minerals. Add in all the variations and versions, and I think they could really go to town. 

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, JohnR said:

I dont know if its been talked about before (sorry I havnt read the whole thread), but something I think Accurascale might do is the humble 16T Steel Mineral.

 

They've got the whole "Powering Britain" series, from the Chaldrons to the HAAs, and theres a big gap with the 16T Minerals. Add in all the variations and versions, and I think they could really go to town. 

 

What's wrong with the Bachmann ones?

 

They do most variants. They aren't the old Mainline or Airfix versions.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Black Hat]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Which answers the question posed by somebody up-thread as to why existing models keep getting upgraded. There is core set of models that were numerous, widespread, lasted a good few years and which will sell, not just on released but for many years thereafter, something niche models will not. Manufacturers need a mix of the two, probably with the niche models only being viable because of the staple models.

 

I take your point about the niche models could damage sales of the staple ones, but I think this will be fairly limited. I say this because we still see those staple models being upgraded and released, if the money was not there, that would not happen.

Roy

 

 

Agreeing with you on this. The trends have been that staple models will be done and continually redone and retooled as they will sell. People need several of these to model an area and time, for example, a Black 5 or class 37... manufacturers will then choose ones that go a bit further and have livery variations as that helps sell the model to more people. 

 

Niche models have been seen, IMHO, to damage the sales of staple engines, particularly if you look at the Southern region.  Hattons P class, the USA dock tank, the Oxford Radial and the Kernow 02 are just a few examples of other entrants adding to the range that would have been covered by the bigger traditional companies. In light of a flood of engines to high polling and high sales rates in that area, customers went and bought niche engines seeing others like WC/BB, 700's and more all sitting on shelves. Only a delay in other batches arriving has seen these shift from bargins to sales. 

 

59 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

The same, of course, applies to some Companies within the other groups ...... BUT there's a significant element of "Nobody does stuff for the XYZ Railway - so I've never taken an interest in it." attitude : How many people were clamouring for SECR locos, carriages and wagons, for instance, before the C class appeared ??!? 

In truth, the demand was clearly there for SECR stuff as I was lobbying for North Eastern things at the time. In order to justify similar polling NER engines I would see where others compared. SECR polled very highly when you compared all the pre-grouping companies against each other, so in turn I put forward the idea that NER engines were also equally viable. 

The difference can be where smaller pre-grouping companies overlap. Thus someone buys a former SECR engine has it would also run on lines to destinations out of its area after starting off on home turf. It looked to me as if several people were voting for all the southern stuff entirely as they had a much smaller area, whereas northern companies such as NER and LNW would not behave like this as often all the engines would be from just one company and the company's geography would encompass all your area of interest. 

However, the poll was very steam-centric and looking at what was on the market also pointed out that many models were being sold due to companies noticing what was selling. This is much more true of modern image/current scene where engines would appeal to a national geographical coverage either all at once or cover much of it during a prototypes operation. You thus need to include what is in a range and what can enhance this to get to the conclusion of what model will sell. 

The poll was great in gathering some information and the analysis I did, showed what was possible and of interest, but then so too can noticing the trends and sales as these can show what is popular due to demand across more than just one period of modelling choice and operation. We then hope, or lobby for ours and then if lucky, someone makes it. 
 

[JohnR]

23 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

What's wrong with the Bachmann ones?

 

They do most variants. They aren't the old Mainline or Airfix versions.

 

 

 

Jason

 

I dont think theres anything particularly wrong with them - and there are other variants, such as the French ones that could be done. 

 

 

[Ruston]

30 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

What's wrong with the Bachmann ones?

 

They do most variants. They aren't the old Mainline or Airfix versions.

 

 

 

Jason

I'm fairly sure that they actually only cover three diagrams out of something like what - 10? None of the rivetted examples, or those with the thin lip around the top are covered. They don't do a clasp-braked one and their Morton VB one should have tie bars between the axle guards, but doesn't.

 

Lots of scope for a definitive version of the 1/108 and all the others to go at, too.