More model ideas

[Global]

19 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

But the question then becomes do enough others agree with you so Accurascale can stay in business?

 

Take the Class 24/25 - several new tooled items in the last say 5 years, would adding a 4th be profitable?

 

Class 56 - enough market for 2 new tools?  I doubt it.

 

Or the Class 47 - you might get away with a 3rd new tool on such a popular class, but would there be a better financial return avoiding that and doing something else?

 

Don't get me wrong, there are things I really hope Accurascale (or perhaps 1 or 2 others) tackle - Class 50, Class 155, HST (power cars and Mk3), Class 118, etc.

 

But given the costs of bringing a new tool product to market there will be a difference between should/deserve and financially wise.

 

 

But those aren't what was being referred to by Dunsignalling.

 

All 3 of those were older tooling (same as the Class 37) and thus really aren't a duplication in the sense that is meant when calling duplication is potentially dangerous to the manufacturer - they really are more "replacement".

 

But a new Class 56 to take an example from my list above would be duplication, and for a smaller interest class would be likely be bad from a finances perpective.

 

 

 

Pass - I can’t answer or say how many would agree with me, any more than anyone else can answer how many wouldn’t!

 

But it certainly feels that AS’s positive engaging attitude and communications are winning over many and they are striving to produce the most accurate models they can which is more than can be said for some of the other manufacturers
 

I was a bit pressed for time when I posted before so it was a bit of a sweeping statement but I do agree there have been several 24/25s recently but the SLW 24 is and, no doubt, 25 will be very very good and are the clear winners so I agree doesn’t warrant another.

 

Likewise I agree on the 56 if Cavalex pull it off it won’t require another.

 

The 47 is, for me, like the 25. Bachmann not quite there, Heljan has shape issues. I think we’re still short of THE 47 but I’ve said all that up thread before so won’t repeat!
 

As this is sort of a wish list thread I’m just stating I’d like anything I buy to be AS (with the odd exception such as 25/56) and I have no issue with duplication (but duplication to me means identical but I have no doubt that AS will produce something far superior to the likes of Heljan & Hornby!) but it is obviously down to them to decide on the financials!

 

As I won’t buy Hornby or Heljan, and I’m going off Bachmann I’m happy to go without or wait in any case, I’ve not got room to build the layout I’d like as yet so I’m purely accumulating stock in preparation so if it takes 7 or 8 years for a AS 47 then no problem! The new Bachmann one will be getting on a bit, although they probably still would have only released about 10 examples by then at their usual rate!! 

[Global]

12 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Do you mean "nothing like the standard that we hope/expect Accurascale will acheive"? Remember that we have only 1 loco to judge them (and IRM) against at the moment.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like what I see from what they do and if their wagons are anything to go by then they will be excellent, but ultimately the proof will be in the pudding.

 

 

I completely agree, and it is something people seem to forget when requesting things that decent models already exist for.

 

 

I think the 37 is probably the only duplication on locos that the existing model was already very good, BUT as far as I am aware, AS have yet to announce any 37 that Bachmann actually have the tooling for and so it isn't really a duplication either.

But that’s one more than Cavalex and this was mentioned as not being suitable for duplication! We know even less how this will turn out. I have 8 on order though, so I’m hoping it lives up to the hype and delivers! 
 

Unless I’ve missed it, I’ve only seen praise for the IRM loco so I’m pretty confident that AS will be equally as good.
 

I think that your comment regarding requests for models that already exist can equally apply to those that don’t though! Just because there isn’t something already doesn’t mean it’ll be automatically profitable. I think a proportion of the HST or 47 market with a decent market leading model would probably generate more sales than some of the other requests! 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Global

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, Global said:

But that’s one more than Cavalex and this was mentioned as not being suitable for duplication! We know even less how this will turn out. I have 8 on order though, so I’m hoping it lives up to the hype and delivers! 
 

I think that your comment regarding requests for models that already exist can equally apply to those that don’t though! Just because there isn’t something already doesn’t mean it’ll be automatically profitable. I think a proportion of the HST or 47 market with a decent market leading model would probably generate more sales than some of the other requests! 

 

I hold the same view about Cavalex.

 

I agree regarding the HST, given that Hornby's is good but could be better (and I think that will still probably apply to the new one), and the HST has been pretty much everywhere in the UK for the last 40 years.

 

OTOH I doubt a 47 would be a good idea, Bachmanns new one is really good by pretty much all accounts, and Heljans is coming too to give it competition. I aren't sure it can sustain 3 high end models, especially when most people who want 47s already have them.

[Global]

16 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I hold the same view about Cavalex.

 

I agree regarding the HST, given that Hornby's is good but could be better (and I think that will still probably apply to the new one), and the HST has been pretty much everywhere in the UK for the last 40 years.

 

OTOH I doubt a 47 would be a good idea, Bachmanns new one is really good by pretty much all accounts, and Heljans is coming too to give it competition. I aren't sure it can sustain 3 high end models, especially when most people who want 47s already have them.

I think you’re right there - the new HST looks a real half hearted attempt at trying to prevent any competition and it certainly isn’t the Rolls Royce model SK was bleating on about!

 

I’m not saying Bachmann’s is bad by any stretch but, and I know we’ve been here before so might have to agree to disagree! ;-) but it’s just a bit lacking for me - no stay alive, cheap looking snowploughs and them being fixed to bogie rather than body, then there’s the price compared to an equivalent AS model and finally, this is an assumption at this stage I admit, the slow pace of releases if past experience is anything to go by! 
 

Obviously fans of Heljan will buy it, but I can’t see anyone who wants a correct shape one will go near it. It is such a shame as the launch liveries were actually really good and I would of had 10 from that first batch alone (including the Gaugemaster ones). It will probably take 10 years for Bachmann to release that many that I’d like! Lol.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Global

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, Global said:

But it certainly feels that AS’s positive engaging attitude and communications are winning over many and they are striving to produce the most accurate models they can which is more than can be said for some of the other manufacturers

 

There is no question that Accurascale is leading a new era in UK models and helping to push existing companies to up their game.

 

But that doesn't translate into people automatically buying anything Accurascale makes, particularly if they judge other new models to be "good enough" and would rather spend their hobby budget on other items - like say the quickly growing range of Accurascale wagons.

 

1 hour ago, Global said:

The 47 is, for me, like the 25. Bachmann not quite there, Heljan has shape issues. I think we’re still short of THE 47 but I’ve said all that up thread before so won’t repeat!

 

One of the unfortunate aspects of this hobby for the minority of us who truly want as accurate as possible models is that most of the market doesn't share that want.

 

They appreciate more accurate items and will happily buy them, but they aren't concerned enough to worry about any issues with the new Bachmann model.

 

So given most of the market will quite happily be buying both the new Heljan and Bachmann models that doesn't leave a lot of money on the table to speak for a 3rd new version - though if any of the prototype diesels could do it the 47 would be the one.  But while I could be wrong I suspect that there isn't a 3rd one coming - because anyone working on being the 3rd would have announced already to try and keep people from buying either the Heljan or Bachmann ones.

 

1 hour ago, Global said:

As I won’t buy Hornby or Heljan, and I’m going off Bachmann I’m happy to go without or wait in any case, I’ve not got room to build the layout I’d like as yet so I’m purely accumulating stock in preparation so if it takes 7 or 8 years for a AS 47 then no problem!

 

If you can plan a layout around whatever Accurascale offers plus a handful of other items that meet your standards then great for you.

 

But for most of us we accept that we can't necessarily get the perfect model of everything we need, and thus we need to be more flexible/realistic if we want to create the layout we would like.

 

1 hour ago, Global said:

The new Bachmann one will be getting on a bit, although they probably still would have only released about 10 examples by then at their usual rate!! 

 

Bachmann won't have spent the vast sum of money they spent (close to $1 million if I recall correctly from their announcement) on tooling up various versions of the Class 47 if they weren't going to offer them at a much quicker pace and variety than they have in the past - because if they don't offer more they won't recoup those costs.

[GordonC]

13 hours ago, Global said:

I think you’re right there - the new HST looks a real half hearted attempt at trying to prevent any competition and it certainly isn’t the Rolls Royce model SK was bleating on about!

 

I’m not saying Bachmann’s is bad by any stretch but, and I know we’ve been here before so might have to agree to disagree! ;-) but it’s just a bit lacking for me - no stay alive, cheap looking snowploughs and them being fixed to bogie rather than body, then there’s the price compared to an equivalent AS model and finally, this is an assumption at this stage I admit, the slow pace of releases if past experience is anything to go by! 
 

Obviously fans of Heljan will buy it, but I can’t see anyone who wants a correct shape one will go near it. It is such a shame as the launch liveries were actually really good and I would of had 10 from that first batch alone (including the Gaugemaster ones). It will probably take 10 years for Bachmann to release that many that I’d like! Lol.

 

I agree entirely with the comments here about the Hornby HST. I cant help thinking they focus on the wrong things to fix or improve. Things like the moulding line down the cab front edge and drooping cantrail stripe across the cab front and poorly fitting headlights are far more visible than the coupling arrangement on the underside at the back. The Hornby high-spec HST is a decent model but if they paid a bit more attention to livery application and dropped the price a bit I think it would be more difficult for another manufacturer to top. Accurascale seem to be able to produce high detail while maintaining reasonable prices so they would of course be able to

[GordonC]

13 hours ago, Global said:

I think you’re right there - the new HST looks a real half hearted attempt at trying to prevent any competition and it certainly isn’t the Rolls Royce model SK was bleating on about!

 

I’m not saying Bachmann’s is bad by any stretch but, and I know we’ve been here before so might have to agree to disagree! ;-) but it’s just a bit lacking for me - no stay alive, cheap looking snowploughs and them being fixed to bogie rather than body, then there’s the price compared to an equivalent AS model and finally, this is an assumption at this stage I admit, the slow pace of releases if past experience is anything to go by! 
 

Obviously fans of Heljan will buy it, but I can’t see anyone who wants a correct shape one will go near it. It is such a shame as the launch liveries were actually really good and I would of had 10 from that first batch alone (including the Gaugemaster ones). It will probably take 10 years for Bachmann to release that many that I’d like! Lol.

 

I agree entirely with the comments here about the Hornby HST. I cant help thinking they focus on the wrong things to fix or improve. Things like the moulding line down the cab front edge and drooping cantrail stripe across the cab front and poorly fitting headlights are far more visible than the coupling arrangement on the underside at the back. The Hornby high-spec HST is a decent model but if they paid a bit more attention to livery application and dropped the price a bit I think it would be more difficult for another manufacturer to top. Accurascale seem to be able to produce high detail while maintaining reasonable prices so they would of course be able to

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

I agree entirely with the comments here about the Hornby HST. I cant help thinking they focus on the wrong things to fix or improve. Things like the moulding line down the cab front edge and drooping cantrail stripe across the cab front and poorly fitting headlights are far more visible than the coupling arrangement on the underside at the back. The Hornby high-spec HST is a decent model but if they paid a bit more attention to livery application and dropped the price a bit I think it would be more difficult for another manufacturer to top. Accurascale seem to be able to produce high detail while maintaining reasonable prices so they would of course be able to

IMHO, the price of the Hornby HST reflects its status as "the only game in town". Should a competitor emerge, watch eighty quid disappear off the RRP the following day.

 

John

Edited January 28, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[MoonM]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

I agree entirely with the comments here about the Hornby HST. I cant help thinking they focus on the wrong things to fix or improve. Things like the moulding line down the cab front edge and drooping cantrail stripe across the cab front and poorly fitting headlights are far more visible than the coupling arrangement on the underside at the back. The Hornby high-spec HST is a decent model but if they paid a bit more attention to livery application and dropped the price a bit I think it would be more difficult for another manufacturer to top. Accurascale seem to be able to produce high detail while maintaining reasonable prices so they would of course be able to

Agree. In my opinion Hornby have left an open goal here for accurascale to come in with an approved model at a lower price yet still leave themselves a decent profit margin. Other opportunities too with the mark 3 to scale the offering (and would also love to see an NSE Wessex emu) 

[TomScrut]

4 hours ago, MoonM said:

Agree. In my opinion Hornby have left an open goal here for accurascale to come in with an approved model at a lower price yet still leave themselves a decent profit margin

 

You're assuming here that Hornby aren't milking the market being the only option, as Dunsignalling suggests. Bachmann knocked £20 or £30 off the 66 when the Hattons one came along, it didn't get cheaper to make.

[MoonM]

35 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

You're assuming here that Hornby aren't milking the market being the only option, as Dunsignalling suggests. Bachmann knocked £20 or £30 off the 66 when the Hattons one came along, it didn't get cheaper to make.

If competition comes in I am sure Hornby will lower their price. However, even if Hornby price below where accurascale may enter, that would not sway me to buy Hornby over accurascale. If accurascale produce an hst and price the power units in line with their diesels and coaches in line with their other coaches, then I would go for them regardless of what Hornby does. Hornby still come short on quality of manufacture and paint finish in my eyes and I really don't like their practices right now 

[slg]

Class 31 would be top of my list as Hornby have done little with theirs and the 2 I have, have the dreaded rot.

I like how 31128 number is different sizes would be an unusual option.

 

Then as a long shot the Class 08 just so they can develop it to make these.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by slg

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, MoonM said:

If accurascale produce an hst and price the power units in line with their diesels and coaches in line with their other coaches, then I would go for them regardless of what Hornby does.

 

Yes, but the market is bigger than one person (you). Do the collectors collect Accurascale?

 

Ultimately for me where there is a choice on something like a HST it would boil down to livery choices. I expect the Bachmann 47 is better than the Heljan one will be but Heljan (via Gaugemaster) are doing liveries far more relevant to me at the moment. 

[MoonM]

17 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes, but the market is bigger than one person (you). Do the collectors collect Accurascale?

 

Ultimately for me where there is a choice on something like a HST it would boil down to livery choices. I expect the Bachmann 47 is better than the Heljan one will be but Heljan (via Gaugemaster) are doing liveries far more relevant to me at the moment. 

The market is bigger than one person but I expect I am not the only person with this opinion. I imagine the 'collectors' do 'collect' accurascale because the models they have produced so far have been good. I certainly have been impressed and in the last 12 months I have purchased/pre-ordered more accurascale product than any other manufacturer. Given the 43 pages of this thread so far and enthusiasm for current and potential new models shown over these pages (most manufacturers are getting kixed reviews these days but it is very tricky to find a bad review of accurascale product) I expect that there have been many other modellers who have already amassed a considerable, and quickly growing, accurascale 'collection' 

[TomScrut]

6 minutes ago, MoonM said:

The market is bigger than one person but I expect I am not the only person with this opinion.

 

I agree, but the point is that you are a certain type of customer.

 

6 minutes ago, MoonM said:

I imagine the 'collectors' do 'collect' accurascale because the models they have produced so far have been good.

 

Is that the reason collectors collect models? I thought typically collectors were interested in ticking boxes rather than the quality of the models. The quality of the models doesn't matter when they never leave the box, and given the newness of AS as a company I don't expect that these sorts of customers have been at them yet.

 

8 minutes ago, MoonM said:

I certainly have been impressed and in the last 12 months I have purchased/pre-ordered more accurascale product than any other manufacturer.

 

I share this enthusiasm, and other than Hornby (due to them doing Hitachis relevant to me) have more money in pre orders with AS than anyone else.

 

10 minutes ago, MoonM said:

Given the 43 pages of this thread so far and enthusiasm for current and potential new models shown over these pages (most manufacturers are getting kixed reviews these days but it is very tricky to find a bad review of accurascale product) I expect that there have been many other modellers who have already amassed a considerable, and quickly growing, accurascale 'collection' 

 

Yes but when I was on about the collectors I was talking of the people (who are not the normal member on here) who buy things and keep them in the box for years, as above. I have quite a lot of AS stuff and will have a lot more this time next year all being well.

[MoonM]

'Collectors' in inverted commas because I do not understand the reason for collecting but not using but I guess everyone is entitled to purchase and enjoy the models in their own way. I am also aware of the fact that after a recent house move I am probably technically a collector aside from some temporary runs on my son's 8x4 (although that will change!). 

 

I am happy to be corrected but I doubt much of the market in 'everyday' hats is for 'collectors' these days. Maybe some of the older Hornby models or some of their very limited or special releases, but surely that's a minority? If not a minority then won't the 'collector' market be flooded anyway? 

 

On the HST front, any 'collector' who runs models will likely want the best out there (and accurascale at at the top of the charts right now). Given c 50yrs of the hst, many modellers will be able to find a roll for an HST and/or mk3s on a layout 

[Covkid]

On 27/01/2022 at 22:00, Global said:

I’m not saying Bachmann’s is bad by any stretch but, and I know we’ve been here before so might have to agree to disagree! ;-) but it’s just a bit lacking for me - no stay alive, cheap looking snowploughs and them being fixed to bogie rather than body, then there’s the price compared to an equivalent AS model and finally, this is an assumption at this stage I admit, the slow pace of releases if past experience is anything to go by! 
 

Obviously fans of Heljan will buy it, but I can’t see anyone who wants a correct shape one will go near it. It is such a shame as the launch liveries were actually really good and I would of had 10 from that first batch alone (including the Gaugemaster ones). It will probably take 10 years for Bachmann to release that many that I’d like! Lol.

 

I am assuming "Global" was referring to the Bachmann class 47 in the post and I feel one aspect needs addressing.  "cheap looking snowploughs fitted to the bogie rather than the body" highlights the problem the model manufacturers have in producing a model locomotive to run round 2nd radius trainsets as well as considerably more scale layouts. You simply would not achieve sufficient bogie swing with body mounted ploughs, so I think you need to cut Bachmann some slack.  If you want to criticise, then at least provide practical and constructive critique.  I have a pair of the previous Bachmann 47s, which are adequate for me, but where I to have several hundred quid spare at some point in the future, after I have built my fleet of neu class 25s then I may consider a 47, but then, I would need a two GYSP Western Lines version with the appropriate boiler room roof grilles anyway.

 

I am sure the Accurascale guys are studying this thread everyday, and sifting the wheat from the chaff.  There is plenty to go at, but I have to say there are some rather impractical suggestions which probably reside on the cuting room floor.    

[James Makin]

On 28/01/2022 at 23:53, Covkid said:

 

You simply would not achieve sufficient bogie swing with body mounted ploughs, so I think you need to cut Bachmann some slack. 

 

With the Bachmann '47' and body-mounted snowploughs, it all depends on the lengths you go to, I've found it's possible to fit them and just file down the back of the plough to get sufficient clearance for even the tightest of curves, I use the Heljan '47' plough and a minidrill sanding attachment, first sticking the plough onto the bufferbeam and then gradually sanding back enough of the rear of the plough to get the full bogie swing.

 

If I were Bachmann project manager, for future batches I'd explore similar options so that from the front the ploughs look fine, even if the back part was a little thinner than it should be, that way with a fixed plough, the customer can then fit the bufferbeam details too. Maybe some kind of thin etched plough might get the necessary thin-ness needed for clearance.

 

I haven't got any skin in the game though, I just like to buy old ones at bargain prices and do them up, it's all part of the fun.  

 

 

My '98-condition old-gen 47004 for comparison but excuse the quality of finish, I did it about 9 years ago and I need to give it a re-whoomph at some stage to match the current workbench output!

 

Cheers,

James

[McC]

Perhaps to bring this chat back on topic, the accurascale 37 has a body mounted plough

[Dunsignalling]

Not sure if I've already suggested this, but an ideal subject to market in packs of three would be the ex-Air Ministry fuel tank wagon. Bags of liveries to cover, too.

 

John

[reddragon]

I still want on track plant! So many to choose from, so much mechanisms action & noises!

[Wickham Green too]

I can see problems getting a 1:76.2 tamper to break up PVA impregnated ballast without lifting itself off the rails ! 

[reddragon]

4 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I can see problems getting a 1:76.2 tamper to break up PVA impregnated ballast without lifting itself off the rails ! 

Is that a challenge to Accurascale then?

[Dorset33]

Class 442 5-WES 5 car unit, extra tooling for the AS MK3’s

[Michael Hodgson]

On 04/02/2022 at 17:54, reddragon said:

I still want on track plant! So many to choose from, so much mechanisms action & noises!

Me too, but despite the ubiquitous HO scale tamper and the Wickham Trolley, I think the market is rather limited, so I don't blame the industry for not offering it.

 

Given that a lot of the plant has very complex fiddly little details that would be extremely difficult to produce by injection moulding, OTP is  perhaps better suited to 3D printing.