Triang Transcontinental as "Night Ferry" sleeper car (abandoned project)

[SteveyDee68]

Having sought information and guidance about Triang's Blue Pullman, I wonder if anyone can tell me about the Triang "Continental" coaches...

 

Firstly, are they OO, HO or somewhere inbetween?

 

All eBay listings have them as OO, but I suppose that might be because of the Triang brand!  How do they compare against a scale Mk1 coach, in terms of size (I'm not worrying about accuracy or detail).

 

And here is the confusing bit...

 

There seems to be two ranges .... one with a passenger car, an end observation car, a baggage car and a dome observation car (these are either blue or grey/red) and which share a common streamlined subframe; the other passenger car style has an underframe with various battery boxes etc...

 

UPDATE:

I now understand that the first vehicles described above were Series 1, and also included a mail coach; the latter design was Series 2, which eventually had a coach, observation/end coach and a baggage/kitchen coach.

 

Series 1 appear larger to my eye.  This may be because of the lower window positions and roof edges of the Series 2 vehicles.

 

If comparable in size to OO, I am wondering about using them to create an impression of the vehicles used for the Night Ferry train (until such time as someone finally brings those out in OO RTR with stunning detail!)

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

Steve S

Edited July 8, 2020 by SteveyDee68
THREAD TOPIC CLOSED

[cypherman]

Hi Stevey,

The Continental coaches are to an American design and were made to be pulled by their American loco's. They are not european continental coaches. So I am not sure how you would turn them into anything like the coaches you want. There are as you say 4 main coaches, But there was a 5th. It was a mail coach. I suggest you look at these Oscar Paisley's videos on you tube.  They will give you a better idea about them.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by cypherman

[SteveyDee68]

12 hours ago, cypherman said:

Hi Stevey,

The Continental coaches are to an American design and were made to be pulled by their American loco's. They are not european continental coaches. So I am not sure how you would turn them into anything like the coaches you want. There are as you say 4 main coaches, But there was a 5th. It was a mail coach. I suggest you look at these Oscar Paisley's videos on you tube.  They will give you a better idea about them.

 

Thanks, Cypherman, for your reply and the video links.  I'm aware that they are really nothing like the real Wagon-Lits coaches of the Night Ferry other than being available in blue and having the entrance door at one end of the coach, but as the only correct models available are brass, cost a King's ransom and are 1:87 rather than 1:76, I am hoping to create an "impressionist" rake sufficiently different to the Mk1s, Bulleids and Pullmans as to look "foreign"!

 

Steve S 

Edited June 22, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Typo!

[cypherman]

Hi Stevey,

You could look at some of the european manufactures. They I believe make Wagon Lits coaches.

 

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Having sought information and guidance about Triang's Blue Pullman, I wonder if anyone can tell me about the Triang "Continental" coaches...

 

Firstly, are they OO, HO or somewhere inbetween?

 

All eBay listings have them as OO, but I suppose that might be because of the Triang brand!  How do they compare against a scale Mk1 coach, in terms of size (I'm not worrying about accuracy or detail).

 

And here is the confusing bit...

 

There seems to be two ranges .... one with a passenger car, an end observation car, a baggage car and a dome observation car (these are either blue or grey/red) and which share a common streamlined subframe; the other passenger car style has an underframe with various battery boxes etc...

 

UPDATE:

I now understand that the first vehicles described above were Series 1, and also included a mail coach; the latter design was Series 2, which eventually had a coach, dining, observation/end coach and a baggage coach.

 

Series 1 appear larger to my eye.  This may be because of the lower window positions and roof edges of the Series 2 vehicles.

 

If comparable in size to OO, I am wondering about using them to create an impression of the vehicles used for the Night Ferry train (until such time as someone finally brings those out in OO RTR with stunning detail!)

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

Steve S

You can type 'Transcontinental' in the search here and find the range.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/default.asp

 

Top right search box.

 

But perhaps you actually want the Lima coaches?

 

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene Webs/lima-modellbahn/CIWL en.htm

[SteveyDee68]

7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

You can type 'Transcontinental' in the search here and find the range.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/default.asp

 

Top right search box.

 

But perhaps you actually want the Lima coaches?

 

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene Webs/lima-modellbahn/CIWL en.htm

 

Kevin

 

Thank you for the links - never thought of looking for a Hornby Collector's Club!   That gives details about serial numbers, date of production etc but nothing about scale or dimensions of models.

 

I have previously looked at Joueff, Playcraft and Lima CIWL coaches, but all are in HO scale and chancing upon them in my local model shop in the second hand boxes they are clearly too small for OO.  Not to mention "sleeper cars" have two doors (unlike the Night Ferry vehicles).  I did buy a LIMA 1966 model sleeper car off eBay as it had the correct single door and being a more modern profile coach looked bigger, but against a OO coach it again looks rather undernourished.

 

I suppose what I should do is scratch build the coaches myself, and one day I intend to do that (and, as often remarked on RMWeb, as soon as I do that Hornby or Bachmann or maybe even Hattons or Rails of Sheffield will announce them as RTR models!).  Either that, or switch to modelling British outline in HO scale! 

 

In the meantime, I've just picked an example up off eBay for less than £4 to take a physical look at/take measurements from.  If it turns out anything like useable (despite being totally wrong in style, shape or design!) then I shall have a go!  I'll apply the same technique to this conversion as Rick does to his poetry in The Young Ones:  

 

Felicity, Felicity,

You fill me with electricity,

Just like sticking my k**b in a plug socket!

If I rearrange the letters in your name,

Take some away,

And put some others in,

It spells

"I love you"

 

 

Cheers

 

Steve S

 

HOURS OF FUN!

[Legend]

As others have said the Transcontinental range were meant to be similar to trains in Canada , Australia , where Tri-ang had a large market, so I don't think they are really suitable as Night ferry stock .  Actually Tri-ang used to have a model of a night ferry coach but it was nothing more than their short Pullmans (available up to 1974, when it was replaced by the version that's now in the Railroad range) painted in blue Wagon_Lits  livery . But that might form a better basis for your Night Ferry stock ie getting some Pullmans and repainting them.

[doctor quinn]

Eastbank MRC Website has an article on the Triang CIWL sleeper http://www.eastbank.org.uk/ciwl.htm

Elsewhere in the site they’ve done a matching restaurant car

[sncf231e]

Here is a .pdf as attachment to this post with an article, including pictures, I wrote on Night Ferry sleeping cars models. This might be of interest.

Regards

Fred

The Night Ferry sleeper modelled.pdf

[SteveyDee68]

2 hours ago, sncf231e said:

Here is a .pdf as attachment to this post with an article, including pictures, I wrote on Night Ferry sleeping cars models. This might be of interest.

Regards

Fred

The Night Ferry sleeper modelled.pdf 826.83 kB · 3 downloads

Thank you - I previously downloaded your eBook CIWL in Miniature, so I expect this to be highly informative and helpful.  I may end up throwing all my Triang Continental plans in the bin after reading this!  Having read the attachment, it appears to be an extract from your larger eBook, whereas I thought from the title it might be saying how you 'modelled' the train, rather than listing the various RTR 'models' of the Type F Pullman car.  I do notice, however, that you say the Jouef/Playcraft is correctly scaled at 23cm long, whereas correctly scaled HO models are 22cm long, which I hope means the Playcraft models are 1:76 after all!

 

Steve S

 

PS

I also downloaded your eBook Railway Mail Carriages - Many Red Ones, and that, too, is a fascinating and informative read.  I wonder if you have seen the latest Bachmann offering of a TPO? They offer two versions, with and without nets, and those would be in your OO/1:76 section. Very detailed but not exactly easy to come by (especially the version with nets)

Edited June 22, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Feedback on pdf

[sncf231e]

Indeed the article was not much more than already mentioned in my CIWL e-book (but I did not know anyone looked in that large book).

 

As an extra two pictures of the correct H0 scale LS Models sleeper next to the Jouef/Playcraft version:

 

The Jouef/Playcraft version is longer and wider, but not higher. So it does not look correct next to a Hornby Pullman:

 

I will take a look at the Bachmann TPO; I understand it is not yet available.

 

Regards

Fred

 

[SteveyDee68]

Hi Fred

 

On 22/06/2020 at 21:14, sncf231e said:

Indeed the article was not much more than already mentioned in my CIWL e-book (but I did not know anyone looked in that large book).

 

 

As mentioned in my previous post, I downloaded your eBook which is a fascinating read all about models of the CIWL carriages, together with information about how accurate those models are.

 

Thank you for taking the time to post the photos of the Jouef/Playcraft model - I've re-read my earlier post and realised I wasn't clear about what models I had seen "in the flesh" and I think they were mostly various Lima models of coaches and baggage cars; I hadn't seen a Jouef/Playcraft coach, but seeing it against the (correct buffer height) Hornby coach illustrates the issue of using an HO scale model (no matter how accurate) with other OO scale vehicles.

 

I am now searching eBay for reasonably priced Hornby Pullmans to "cut and shut" - your eBook plus a reference book I have on Pullman carriages will be helpful in that process.

 

Regards

 

Steve S

Edited July 8, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Cursed typos!

[Flood]

Marc Models made 4mm kits of the stock as shown on this page: http://www.marcmodels.co.uk/Night Ferry Page.html

but the business is not in a position to accept any orders.

[Titan]

Will they be coupled to other 4mm scale coaches?  If not the size difference might not be so apparent.  You could always get a HO lima class 33 to pull them with....

[Il Grifone]

The first series Tri-ang TC coaches are actually H0 scale*, unlike most of the range (the 'F series' diesels (as in the previous post) most certainly are not), but like many model coaches too short (they scale about 70' the prototypes are 85' (or thereabouts). They have two types of bogie - early ones a passable metal one, later a ghastly plastic effort

The second series are based on Canadian prototypes but again too short.

(They were intended for 13½" radius curves....)

 

As to CIWL coaches, to my knowledge there been no accurate models to 00 scale, though Graham Farish and Tri-ang both produced their British Pullmans in this livery. (Good luck trying to find either as they are rare and collectible and the Farish ones are invariably warped - a combination of bad mould design, zinc pest, and being made from a relation of cellulose acetate.)

 

There was a Revell kit, but again it's H0.

 

Of course a complete train run at night would not be particularly noticeable as out of scale.

 

Rivarossi coaches are to 1:80 scale (the older ones anyway - Hornby/Rivarossi are 1:87). I'll have to dig out my catalogue and see if there is anything suitable.

[sncf231e]

48 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

 

 

There was a Revell kit, but again it's H0.

 

Of course a complete train run at night would not be particularly noticeable as out of scale.

 

Rivarossi coaches are to 1:80 scale (the older ones anyway - Hornby/Rivarossi are 1:87). I'll have to dig out my catalogue and see if there is anything suitable.

There was never a Revell kit for a Night Ferry sleeping car and also RivaRossi did not make this type of sleeper. The only correct scale model of a Night Ferry sleeper in H0 is from LS Models. And in 00 there is only the MarcModels kit.  You might take a look in the attachment I uploaded here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/155861-triang-transcontinental-coaches-to-night-ferryam-i-mad/&do=findComment&comment=4019591

 

Regards

Fred

 

[Il Grifone]

I wasn't specifically referring to 'Night Ferry' cars as the OP was about Tri-ang 'Continental' Coaches.

 

The TC coaches are generic North American coaches (also available for Australia and South Africa but even shorter for some obscure reason).

 

The Tri-ang CIWL car is just their British Pullman car in CIWL livery and not an accurate model of anything (too short just for a start...).

Edited June 23, 2020 by Il Grifone

[SteveyDee68]

8 hours ago, Flood said:

Marc Models made 4mm kits of the stock as shown on this page: http://www.marcmodels.co.uk/Night Ferry Page.html

but the business is not in a position to accept any orders.

 

Thank you for the link, although the price of the kits plus my current skills set would relegate the unopened boxes into a display cabinet!  Those models are superb but, simply put, out of my price range!  £265 for a single RTR coach?  Over £1,000 for a four coach train, then add on a couple of Fourgons! Eek!

 

Steve (hoping for a big Lottery win!)

 

[SteveyDee68]

On 23/06/2020 at 09:16, Titan said:

Will they be coupled to other 4mm scale coaches?  If not the size difference might not be so apparent.  You could always get a HO lima class 33 to pull them with....

 

I do happen to have a Lima HO class 33 as it happens, Titan, purchased for a railcar project for Woodhey Quay, since abandoned.  It is striking just how much less volume it has compared to 4mm stock, so not a way forward for me!

 

Having now got a Triang Blue Continental coach in the flesh via eBay, I can see now that it simply doesn't look anything like the Night Ferry vehicles (even in the dark!) so I will probably sell it back on eBay again. (Bought for less than a fiver, it's no great loss to me if it doesn't sell, but maybe someone will want it and get some use out of it.)

 

And with that the whole (mad? deluded?) scheme of using the Triang Continental coaches as cheap basic vehicle fodder for the Night Ferry is finally laid to rest!  With thanks to all for their advice and opinions on the idea!

 

Steve S