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Lyncombe Vale and Watery Bottom Viaduct


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Hi all,

 

After a long hiatus I have recently started my first layout in 25 years. I decided on Lyncombe Vale, in particular Watery Bottom Viaduct, for the first module of a larger n gauge S&D layout set in the early 1960s. I had assumed research would be easy given I'm aware of 50 or so photos of the area. It wasn't until I realised that I will need to model a view from the North of line that I noticed the complete lack of photos from that direction. I am only aware of a single photo: https://www.twotunnels.org.uk/gallery/image_lyncombe-greenway-lane.html

Can anyone point me to other photos taken from the north of the line, perhaps from Greenway Lane? 

 

Also, can anyone point me to scale drawings or otherwise help with the dimensions of Watery Bottom Viaduct and the little bridge/culvert immediately west of it? I have tried to derive the size from photos, but ended up with a good 6ft variance depending on the angle.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Andy

 

 

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23 hours ago, andreas said:

I had assumed research would be easy

Nothing ever seems to be easy on the S&D. I have learnt more from people on this forum than i ever thought possible. A lot of knowledge here.

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Thank you for your help so far.

 

16 hours ago, Dancess said:

The Somerset & Dorset in Colour by Mike Arlett / David Lockett has a picture of Watery Bottom viaduct on page 22.

The pictures on pages 21 and 22 of Somerset & Dorset in Colour are indeed some of my favourites. They show exactly the kind of view I am trying to recreate.  My other favourite must be the attached photo of the last up Pines I found on ebay a while ago. I think it may be a Colour Rail slide but I don't know who took the photo or if there are any more of it. 

 

16 hours ago, RTJ said:

Thank you for the link Richard. You just doubled the number of photos from the northern side of Lyncombe Vale. I had previously looked through the Bath in Time archive, but perhaps not closely enough. I remember seeing the photo you linked to but didn't notice there weren't any houses in the background.  Perhaps the description gives a clue why we see so few photos from that direction. "Victorian rubbish tips" seem to be rather rarely modelled.

 

I can also report some progress on the measurements. By accident I found some even more detailed maps on maps.nls.uk. Changing from category 'Great Britain' to 'England and Wales' brings back additional maps to select from. I always thought their OS 25 inch maps are fantastic but the 1:500 OS maps from 1885 show even individual trees. Using the measurement tools on https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=21&lat=51.36941&lon=-2.36013&layers=117746211&b=1 I get an overall length of 21.5m including abutments for Watery Bottom Viaduct. Now I only need to infer all other measures and try to validate them.

SD144.png

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Our school X-country course ran under the viaduct. (I was in the X-country team).  In the late 1960's a student/holiday job was to weed the whole of the embankment on that side of the viaduct.

 

I look forward to pictures of your project.

 

My next one could be a compressed version of Midford Goods Yard (I now model in 'O' gauge).

 

Best wishes,

 

Richard

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BANES Council planning portal might give you some info. I suspect that there would have to have been planning permission for the building of the cycleway.

 

I have had a look on Britain from Above, but there doesn't seem to be anything useful there.

 

Best of luck with it.

 

Regards

 

Ian

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As these structures presumably still exist and it sounds like you want an accurate model are you able to visit the site to get the information you need?  The railway is now a walk / cycle way so you should have access at least to the track and embankments. Measurung structures may attract some strange looks though. Apologies if you are not located in the UK or unable to travel to the Bath area.

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Apologies for not responding to your comments earlier. Things at work are always a litte busy at the end of the quarter.

 

In the little spare time I found I managed to make good progress on the measurements - not so much on the rest of the layout. That's still little more than a pile of ply and foam in a corner of the room.

It turns out that being member of the S&D Trust comes with additional benefits. I was able to source digital copies of the original drawings. Unfortunately, I can't post them here, but for anyone stumbling on this post in the future here are the high level measurements

  • Ketley's Bridge (bridge 11): 7'6" span and 15'3" width
  • Watery Bottom Viaduct (bridge 12): overall length 69'3", inner arch 14'6", outer arches 15'3". Height to track bed is approximately 24'8" with an additional 2' for the parapet. Width is 15'11" at the lowest point
  • Moger's Bridge (bridge 13): Span 29'6" at widest point narrowing to 15' at rail level. Height from rail to arch is around 21 feet and width around 17 feet.
  • Bridge 14: overall length 69' with three 16' arches. Width is 16'. The measurements are for the original version, which has been strengthened since.

 

On 03/07/2020 at 22:25, Dancess said:

Another photo on page 4 of Pines Express 287 from S&D Trust.

That's indeed excellent pictures. As usual taken from the south but they do include angles rarely seen in other photos. Terry Stone wrote another article about Lyncombe Vale in Pines Express issue no. 290. The photos there are of similar quality and equally useful.

There is also a good picture of Midford Good's Yard in no. 287 which makes me want to model that too. I will probably end up with only scenic modules that there is no space for any stations anymore.

 

I did find two more photos showing at little bit more of the scenery immediately north of the line. The title page in Ivo Peter's S&D in the 50s, Volume 2 is taken from an angle that shows the gardens near Watery Bottom Viaduct. I don't know how I missed that in the first scan of my library. There is also the picture on page 3 of SDRT Bulletin no. 223 showing parts of Lyncombe Vale Nursery Gardens around 1880, which while useful was perhaps taken a little too early for my model.

 

Richard, do you by any chance remember how the area between Ketley's Bridge and Watery Bottom Viaduct looked like in the 1960s? It's not clear from contemporary maps if the area was part of Lyncombe Vale Nursery or used for smaller allotments. Also do you know if and how Lyn Brook was separated from the gardens? Were there any trees perhaps?

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Andreas,

 

Re your last paragraph (above). Apologies, I have virtually no  recollection of the area other than following a load of wet and muddy runners.

 

I seem to recall it (the embankment) was largely overgrown even then (late 1960s). Silver birch evident. and rosebay willow herb.

 

Please can you send me link to the OS map you were using?

 

Re Midford Goods Yard - Sod's law...I chucked out all my more-than 6-months-old mags inc No 287. 

 

Keep us all updated - please.

 

Yours,

 

Richard.

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On 23/06/2020 at 23:18, RTJ said:

student/holiday job was to weed the whole of the embankment on that side of the viaduct.

 

One is compelled to ask why?

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Midford Goods yard.

 

Hope I'm not hi-jacking this thread - if so then Mods please alter.

 

 I use a Mac, but have AnyRails (a free download) for use on Windows 10 using Parallels). It's bit of a faff going from one to the other but do-able.

 

I now model mainly in 'O'gauge (7mm) rather than 'OO' (4mm) but still have all my old 'OO' stuff (from my old Wellow layout: http://rtjstevens.co.uk/wellow.html) , and have all the track/points etc to complete it 'for free'. The other advantage of modelling the Goods yard in 'OO' is that Peco do a yard crane that's very similar to the one in the yard.

 

 

547373992_MidfordOOSingle.jpg.d8fad16a85b93858007f1591bfe77a20.jpg

 

Above is a rough track plan 'as was' in 'OO'. It fits on baseboard 1.0 x 0.4m

 

However, it lacks a bit of running interest. I've always wondered what the S&D would have looked like if it hadn't been subject to the Beeching Axe,  & had joined with the GWR nr Limpley Stoke (there was such a plan), and had run double track:

 

 

1635725032_MidfordDoubleOO_4.jpg.fd6781b68024db1213ab7f402bf09c9f.jpg

 

This is 1.8 x 0.42m.

 

With'O' gauge:

 

 

895358468_Midfordgoodsdouble0.jpg.1d04ab8c4b46c51b50a01e9158fd4c4a.jpg

 

Compressed into 2.5x 0.5m. Notice the headshunt. (Always do-able on the 'OO'plan of course).

 

All track:Peco.

 

I originally wanted the x-over portion to be on the Bath  end of the plan but was frustrated ( in 'O'), that it wouldn't fit.

 

 The painted background would be easy - very rural except for Midford castle (my Grandparents almost bought the place when they moved from Templecombe between the wars. Just imagine growing up in the 50s and 60s with the S&D down the hill!).

 

Reading the above I realise I HAVE hi-jacked the thread - apologies . Mods please feel free to move.

 

Richard.

 

 

 

 

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On 06/07/2020 at 10:35, RTJ said:

Apologies, I have virtually no  recollection of the area other than following a load of wet and muddy runners.

I appreciate it you probably had other things on your mind at that point. I certainly can't remember much of my x-country runs at school, besides the mud and my sore legs of course.

 

On 06/07/2020 at 10:35, RTJ said:

I chucked out all my more-than 6-months-old mags inc No 287

If you are still a member of the Trust you can request a login to the member's section on the website. There you can download pdfs of every single issue since the 1960s. In the meantime I've sent you a message.

 

Now that I've looked at my collection of Midford pictures again I'm wondering if I could add that to my Lyncombe Vale ideas. In n gauge Midford is perfect for a 'railway in landscape' type of setting. Starting with the good's yard and the area near Midford Castle it would be easy to expand to Midford Viaduct later. If I continue like this I probably won't ever get to build a station. I suppose I'm lucky that an acute lack of space stops me from actually starting too many things at once.

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  • 5 weeks later...
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On 23/06/2020 at 23:18, RTJ said:

Our school X-country course ran under the viaduct. (I was in the X-country team).  In the late 1960's a student/holiday job was to weed the whole of the embankment on that side of the viaduct.

By the time I was sent out on those bleak, wet days for an hour or so of misery in Lyncombe Vale and the surrounding area in the early 1970s, the S&D was well and truly closed, but that didn't stop a few of us diverting to the trackbed and exploring.

 

It was rumoured that the games master would stand at the front of the school, on the opposite (north) side of the valley and check the numbers of boys that appeared, running across the fields on the other side, with binoculars.

 

A few of us eventually managed to walk through Combe Down Tunnel during the school lunch break, which was just over an hour, as I recall. For me, that also involved a sprint down the avenues to our house to collect a torch, another sprint back up to the school to join the others and then a brisk route march down to Lyncombe Vale, up to the track bed and into the tunnel. We just walked to the Midford portal and turned round and walked all the way back again, making it back only just in time for afternoon lessons. No nice smooth cycleway surface in those days, all on old ballast!

 

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Lyncombe Vale is one of the most attractive stretches on the line. Sadly, on my own model of Bath (see link below) space has dictated that I've had to miss it out modelling just the northern portal of Devonshire tunnel and the southern of Combe Down - the twin tunnels becoming just the one.

The pictures below are taken on Paul Stephens layout who has modelled selected scenes on the S&D in 2mm/N gauge.

 

Jerry

 

Combe_Down_1.jpg.d2b4bcb0f0e853a4af9dd6d9998149b1.jpg

Combe_Down_2.jpg.c92ac524e6cda0d0a9ed7bb3be1c11d8.jpg

Combe_Down_3.jpg.883047ff55570223f955f9d5f922673f.jpg

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  • 3 months later...

Hi all, just stumbled across this topic. I too am currently planning a layout in OO based on Lyncombe Vale, and have just started construction of my representation of Watery Bottom Viaduct, which will form the centre piece to the build. 

I'm heavily modifying three Wills Brick Arch Bridge kits to form the structure, though not 100% I hope to capture the look and feel of the viaduct as close as possible (Like much of the planned layout I've had to condense the scene down a bit to get it to fit the room, but hopefully I'll be able to pull it off). ;)

 

I've just purchased a load of books on the line to hopefully help me with my research on the section, but they are still yet to arrive, so hopefully you'll be able to help me out with a couple of questions.

 

1. When was the viaduct (as well as the two tunnels built / completed)

2. Looks at pictures (and seeing the structure during a visit a few years back) it appears to be a real patch work of stone / engineering and red brick. Was the structure originally stone and patch up with brick or the other way around (my guess is the Red Brick sections are patch repairs). 

 

Any help would be very much appreciated :) 

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33 minutes ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Looks at pictures (and seeing the structure during a visit a few years back) it appears to be a real patch work of stone / engineering and red brick. Was the structure originally stone and patch up with brick or the other way around (my guess is the Red Brick sections are patch repairs). 

I don't have any photos of Lyncombe Vale but many structures on the S&D seem to be built / repaired in the same way.

These are the bridge bases at Sturminster Newton, a mix of stone and engineers bricks.

IMG_3052.JPG.7bf1a2d6a1bb90fa3432f1cb8b1f01f6.JPG

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4 hours ago, down the sdjr said:

I don't have any photos of Lyncombe Vale but many structures on the S&D seem to be built / repaired in the same way.

These are the bridge bases at Sturminster Newton, a mix of stone and engineers bricks.

IMG_3052.JPG.7bf1a2d6a1bb90fa3432f1cb8b1f01f6.JPG

Thanks! Hopefully I'll be able to get those colours right.

 

This is what I've done so far. Both  sides are nearly complete, however, I'm currently adding in the stonework. The main side that will be seen on the layout is closest to the fields, as if your looking across to the houses on the side of the hill. I've been looking at a number of photos online, but most are too grainy (especially to the left side) to see where the stone was used. If anyone had any photos they can share that would be of great help :)

 

(The last picture is a guess looking at the images I have, it's yet to be fitted, so still have time to change if someone knows better)

IMG_20201123_165532.jpg

IMG_20201123_165555.jpg

IMG_20201123_165638.jpg

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26 minutes ago, SDJR7F88 said:

This is what I've done so far.

Looking good already.

 

The Wills bridge kits are really good and come with enough parts for 2 bridges, good value imo. I modify mine slightly, I add a brick profile around the bottom of the arches as they are on most of the bridges on the southern section. Not sure if they are the same further north.

 

IMG_20200530_140410.jpg.880dd5c97eab84d342c7850e9d0fc58a.jpg

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