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New project and need some help with a SECR S class No.685


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Hi all,

i have just bought one of these Triang saddle tanks. It is supposed to be based on the SECR S class No.685, I have been gathering pictures of this engine  to see about making it more realistic. But the pictures I can find are very limited. Any help with more pictures would be gratefully appreciated. It is not going to be as easy as I thought. All the wheel valances need to be changed The original one needs cutting away as it is a one piece. New replacement footplate needs to be made. All new wheels are need to replace the solid ones. The area under the boiler needs opening out and an under surface to the boiler needs to be made. The steps front and rear are both far to wide, probably done so that it would be stronger when played with. I can either shave them down or make some new ones. Needs Westinghouse brake gear attaching as well as associated pipework under the left hand side of the saddletank between the splashers. There is a very badly done moulding done on the right hand side of the boiler under the chimney that will have to be filled off. Sanders at the front are needed as they are very prominent. new lamp irons  All new hand rails and a much taller chimney. The rear picture window needs filling in as it did not have one. Plus all the little details that will suddenly appear and need doing.So all in all quite a lot to do for such a little engine. It also needs a whistle. I have an old M7 body that may be able to donate some items.

What I do need if any can help me is a picture of the area around the whistles plus any other pictures that may help.

Just incase I do make a complete hash of it i have bought a spare body....... :)

This may well take some time

Many thanks,

 

Cypherman

Triang Saddle tank.jpg

SECR S class No.685.jpeg

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1 hour ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

i have just bought one of these Triang saddle tanks. It is supposed to be based on the SECR S class No.685, I have been gathering pictures of this engine  to see about making it more realistic. But the pictures I can find are very limited. Any help with more pictures would be gratefully appreciated. It is not going to be as easy as I thought. All the wheel valances need to be changed The original one needs cutting away as it is a one piece. New replacement footplate needs to be made. All new wheels are need to replace the solid ones. The area under the boiler needs opening out and an under surface to the boiler needs to be made. The steps front and rear are both far to wide, probably done so that it would be stronger when played with. I can either shave them down or make some new ones. Needs Westinghouse brake gear attaching as well as associated pipework under the left hand side of the saddletank between the splashers. There is a very badly done moulding done on the right hand side of the boiler under the chimney that will have to be filled off. Sanders at the front are needed as they are very prominent. new lamp irons  All new hand rails and a much taller chimney. The rear picture window needs filling in as it did not have one. Plus all the little details that will suddenly appear and need doing.So all in all quite a lot to do for such a little engine. It also needs a whistle. I have an old M7 body that may be able to donate some items.

What I do need if any can help me is a picture of the area around the whistles plus any other pictures that may help.

Just incase I do make a complete hash of it i have bought a spare body....... :)

This may well take some time

Many thanks,

 

Cypherman

Triang Saddle tank.jpg

SECR S class No.685.jpeg

Ah, yes, the S Class. They only ever made one of those (by that, they just took an SE&CR C Class and rebuilt it into a tank engine during WWI). The Triang model made a toy-like version of it by replacing the original splashers with an elongated LNWR/GCR style splasher and stuck these weird boxes by the cab.

 

The steps are chunkier compared to the flaired originals but that can be easily remedied. In order to make this model run and work on modern tracks (mainly the PECO brand track), one of the modern Bachmann 0-6-0 chassis or the Hornby Chinese 3F Jinty 0-6-0 chassis would be a good choice.

 

Because this is a locomotive based on a real-life example instantly cobbled together during WWI, it would have the SECR wartime grey livery. As I would with my models, I would do a lot of research into them as well as work out what parts I would need and the total cost altogether. Like Hornby would do, they would revive their old Tri-ang model moulds and improve on them which is what I would do, too.

 

All in all, this is a nice project for a locomotive that was originally a rebuild during the Great War only to be used as a shunter at Bricklayers Arms. I'll bet that some modern model railway company like Dapol, Kernow Model Centre or Hattons Model Railways would someday make a fully-updated, DCC-ready highly-detailed version, but for now, we will stick to our upgrades of the older model.

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You might find that the proportions of the triang model are an issue. The original version of the model, I believe, was made to have a clockwork mechanism and chassis. For this reason, the body of the loco has been stretched to be too tall, to make sure the clockwork mechanism would fit inside. As LNWR18901910 mentioned, the S class is a tank version of the Wainwright C class. So, if you want an easy way to get the dimensions right, I recommend getting a Great British Locomotives Collection C class as a donor for parts. You could combine parts from both the Triang saddle tank (such as the tank, cab and bunker), and parts from the C class (such as the smokebox, footplate and boiler), and use a modern chassis to get a more accurate model. That's just my advice. It is really up to you with what level of detail and dimensions you are happy with. I'm sure you will be able to make something wonderful with this project. Have fun with it.

Edited by Justang
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Hi all,

I know the engine is over scale, But I do not want to over do it and loose too much of the original Triangness of the engine. I want to do a sympathetic modernisation. I listed the main things I think should be done. As for those odd boxes they added at the cab end. I am not sure just how easy it will be to take them out. Thanks for the info guys. One thing that will make the engine less tall is the wheels I am using to replace the original ones. They are from a Jinty and I believe are slightly smaller in diameter. The original wheels are bigger I believe due to help keep the gearing down for the clockwork motor.

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The S wheels are 5'2" and the Jinty wheels are 4'7" that only less than 2mm in 00.

 

If you can live with it's other inaccuracies then I wouldn't be getting too bothered with the wheel sizes.

 

I take it you've found this page. I'll have a little browse and see if I can find more photos. But it was a rare bird.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/sclass_01.html

 

 

As I pointed out in the other thread, if anyone wants a proper version, South Eastern Finecast do a model of it.

 

http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/Locomotives/New and Revised Loco Kits Page 5.htm

 

 

 

Jason

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Hi Southport,

Yes they are the pictures I found. Yes the finecast kit is very nice. But what I am trying to do is make old engines run again. All part of my restoration addiction..... :)

Thanks for looking for me.

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I can see where your coming from trying to keep its originality  but the very second you touch it it's no longer original.

   There's a few old Triang locos both steam and diesel that respond well to a lesser or greater degree of upgrading but I think in this case the marriage of a C class and the saddle tank might be the best option. 

  By cutting the saddle tank cab and bunker off the saddle tank and grafting these on to a cut down C class you get to retain all the running plate detail like the splashers etc.

    One could retain the C class smoke box with chimney and smoke box door. This also might help to lower the top half a little bringing it more back into balance.

  

  PS as gratitude for my advice you could send me the C class tender which I can convert to look like a G&SWR one for a project I'm planing.....

 

 Well if you don't ask!

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Hi all,

Well the spare body has arrived today. I measured it up to the GBL C class I have and the dimensions are quite a bit out between the two. So I will not be going down that route. Plus it would add another £20.00 plus p+p to get another C class. The one I have is part of my GBL collection and is not for use. Waiting for all the bits and bobs to arrive before I start.

So I am sorry Londontram I cannot give you the tender you desire. But good luck with your project.

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Hi all,

Well the Spare body and full engine have arrived. Unfortunately on examining the way the engine has been designed there are somethings that cannot be done. The More modern 1970's Jinty chassis will not fit. the mounting points are out at one end and totally different at the other. So I have changed the wheels for more modern none solid ones. The other problem was that I was going to open out the underside of boiler as far back as I could until the worm gear was reached. Well that is out now as they have put the chassis in back to front and all you will see is an XO3 motor. As I am not able to do that I am considering leaving the running plate as it is with the long splashers. The work to cut out the really thick plastic is a little too much for what I wanted to do.

So I shall see where I get to once I syart.

Edited by cypherman
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19 hours ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

Well the Spare body and full engine have arrived. Unfortunately on examining the way the engine has been designed there are somethings that cannot be done. The More modern 1970's Jinty chassis will not fit. the mounting points are out at one end and totally different at the other. So I have changed the wheels for more modern none solid ones. The other problem was that I was going to open out the underside of boiler as far back as I could until the worm gear was reached. Well that is out now as they have put the chassis in back to front and all you will see is an XO3 motor. As I am not able to do that I am considering leaving the running plate as it is with the long splashers. The work to cut out the really thick plastic is a little too much for what I wanted to do.

So I shall see where I get to once I syart.

What about a Bachmann C Class second-hand? The chassis is modern and reliable.

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Hi Lnwr,

Just checked Ebay and there are none for sale. But I think that a new chassis will push the project beyond what it is worth.

Anyway have started on the body. here are some quick update pictures.

Have removed the long splashers and scratch built and repurposed some correct style ones. I have decided to keep the 2 boxes at the back due to the amount of plastic I took away to get this far. Remade a small part of the footplate. Filed off the lip round the large back window and filled it  in. removed the (hacked away) Westinghouse pump from the front of the boiler. i have one to go into the correct place.

Just one thing about this engine. I cannot see a dart on the smokebox door in any of the picture i can find.... ???. Is this just me or is there not one there. I cannot see one in these pictures.

DSC_0858.JPG

DSC_0860.JPG

DSC_0861.JPG

SECR S class No.685.jpeg

SECR S class No.685 3.jpg

SECR S class No.685 1.jpg

Edited by cypherman
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