Exhibitions.. a place to add your ideas on the current situation

[Neil]

5 hours ago, Barry O said:

I wonder how many Societies can take a hit from a cancellation of an Exhibition? The Gauge O Guild may have a financial problem...but lets hope they can survive..

 

Baz

 

I wonder if the real issue isn't how to run a viable exhibition under the current or predicted future circumstances but how clubs can best survive with the loss of a revenue stream. I realise that this thread may not be the place for it and as it's years since I was last in a club I'm not the person for it either.

[Philou]

On 26/06/2020 at 16:27, tomparryharry said:

I can think of one Cardiff event where the 'modest venue' is packed to the rafters, with aunts, grannies & children perched on the visitors shoulders, as they walk around, consuming bacon baps.... 

 

Was there a clue in there ........... 'bacon baps'? I hope that come January 2021 it will still be on!! Whether I shall be able to get there will be, of course, an entirely different matter!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Was there a clue in there ........... 'bacon baps'? I hope that come January 2021 it will still be on!! Whether I shall be able to get there will be, of course, an entirely different matter!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

I couldn't possibly comment, but I hope it's still going on.

[Philou]

I would like just to leave this thought with you. I'm Hon. Treas. for our club and we were due to hold an exhibition to celebrate the club's 21st Birthday and I was having kittens as our funds have been pretty well depleted due to a hiatus a couple of years ago (change in status and we had to start again from scratch). Our modest exhibition would have cost us around €5000 to set up with no guarantee of any surplus.

 

Covid 19 has given us a breathing space as it has been decided to cancel for this year as, as yet, we have no idea if there will be a second wave (or not).

 

In any case, someone spotted that though the idea of the club was put forward 21 years ago, it didn't take off until the following January, so next year is its 21st year of operation. Additionally, we are now able to organise a swop-meet and mini show in April that will definitely bring in much needed funds to therefore cover any shortfall that may occur at the larger show in October 2021.

 

Whilst in the short-term, the outbreak has been unwelcome and will no doubt cause financial problems for some, I am certain that things will pick up again, always provided that people remain sensible regarding personal health in the interim period.

 

Take care out there everyone,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Roger Sunderland]

On 26/06/2020 at 12:22, Allegheny1600 said:

Ouch!

Too much dumb for me, I had to stop watching halfway through.

Where do these people get their ideas?

Dumb yes, of course. But maybe not that different from the 500000 (really) Knobheads who flocked to Bournemouth beach - see Andy’s pic above. Or the thousands having illegal raves and street parties in London, Manchester and elsewhere. It seems asking people to show some some restraint and think of others is a non starter. I just don’t know how you would police a large exhibition, keep people safe but still get enough people through the doors to clear costs.

[caradoc]

10 minutes ago, Roger Sunderland said:

I just don’t know how you would police a large exhibition, keep people safe but still get enough people through the doors to clear costs.

 

That I think is the key question. I will be quite happy to, fairly soon, go to an exhibition, wearing a face covering throughout, and I would hope everyone else would do the same. However, I do not expect anyone to attend as an exhibitor or trader if they would not feel safe or comfortable, nor would I expect stewards to risk confrontation or worse by policing the wearing of face coverings. Hopefully the meaures already taken will continue to reduce the spread of the virus (although plenty of people/knobheads seem to think it has gone already !)

 

 

[john new]

It is not just exhibitions that are being hit for clubs/Societies. Our draft SLS meetings/talks indoor programme for the early Autumn is in complete doubt, probably until at least the New Year - most already announced events are now confirmed as off, or are in doubt, and the usual programme resumption dates were not even announced by several of our local Centres. These are open and advertised  events although mostly only attended by regular members. Postponement/ cancellation reasons are a mix - this includes venues not being open but mostly participants not yet willing or wanting to risk attending as either speaker or audience member.
 

Another related issue for meetings, which will also impact to a lesser extent on exhibitions, is the loss of that % of the membership/gate who having broken their habitual attendance cycle,  find they haven’t missed it and stop attending permanently.  The % may well be small but it will accelerate the existing decline. Although the immediate thought is this is more likely to be the elderly, with budgets being hit for the younger element too through the increases in unemployment (announcements of these swathing job cuts are already in the news), potentially it is an across the board hit.

 

This is an instance where I hope I am proved wrong.

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by john new
Typos

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

I will be quite happy to, fairly soon, go to an exhibition, wearing a face covering throughout, and I would hope everyone else would do the same.

 

Hmmm. Washing your hands is more effective at reducing the spread than a facemask and my observations suggest that at least 1/3rd of those going to the toilet can't be bothered to do that!

 

(And I have a fine selection of fashionable face coverings ready for shows!)

[tomparryharry]

21 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Hmmm. Washing your hands is more effective at reducing the spread than a facemask and my observations suggest that at least 1/3rd of those going to the toilet can't be bothered to do that!

 

(And I have a fine selection of fashionable face coverings ready for shows!)

 

X

Edited June 30, 2020 by tomparryharry
Deleted

[andania 213]

As Phil says above, masks are reckoned to be only of limited value and effectiveness.  Our 'sage's are obviously still not totally convinced by them ,

i can see however, that in some situations they may prove a useful 'add on' to the main measures, such as hygiene, social distancing etc. 

 

However, where the whole idea of masks falls down, in my opinion, is when you factor in the all too common  numpty like  'do wot I want'  mentality of many of the wearers.  They obviously, ( from bitter experience ) think that donning a mask makes them superhuman or something. They then go round doing just what they like, totally ignoring to foillow the other ( more effective) measures;, like social distancing,; looking only with your eyes, not your fingers in supermarkets etc.etc.

 

For those reasons, if I see anyone in a mask, I deliberately keep out the way, They get the 3 metre distance and rising treatment from me, for my own sake more than theirs. 

 

Anyhow, to return to Topic, thanks to my own rather faulty 'ventilation system' ( I 'enjoy' an almost permanent stuffy nose), the thought of having to wear a mask in a hot, stuffy environment;, such as the average exhibition hall, is not an appealing thought, and thus, would render shows as something I'd rather avoid. 

 

K 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by andania 213
missed a bit, durrrr!

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I wonder what else you are looking for

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by tomparryharry
Deleted

[tomparryharry]

X

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by tomparryharry
Deleted

[BoD]

8 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

...how would you convey the subliminal  message that you have actually washed your hands? I 

 

 

Come out of the toilets miming playing a ukulele because the hot air dryers are out of use.

[newbryford]

On 28/06/2020 at 17:35, Ravenser said:

 

I would have hoped that the Societies were the least affected, and that they are largely supported by subscriptions - not exhibition incomes. 

 

 

 

Unless said Society has paid out for an expensive exhibition venue and then lost out due to the society cancelling the show - before the venue cancels on them.................

 

Is this tantamount to "playing chicken" as to who cancels first and thus picks up the bill? 

(The organising club/society loses deposit/fee, or the venue loses the income)

 

I wonder if that's why a large show in October in Milton Keynes hasn't cancelled yet?

[Barry O]

On 29/06/2020 at 17:53, BoD said:

Come out of the toilets miming playing a ukulele because the hot air dryers are out of use.

For some reason I cant get the picture of that out of my head...

[MarcD]

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Unless said Society has paid out for an expensive exhibition venue and then lost out due to the society cancelling the show - before the venue cancels on them.................

 

Is this tantamount to "playing chicken" as to who cancels first and thus picks up the bill? 

(The organising club/society loses deposit/fee, or the venue loses the income)

 

I wonder if that's why a large show in October in Milton Keynes hasn't cancelled yet?

This was the case with GuildEx the exhibition centre wouldn't cancel as they thought by August everything would be back to normal.

Marc

[PenrithBeacon]

14 hours ago, Furness Wagon said:

This was the case with GuildEx the exhibition centre wouldn't cancel as they thought by August everything would be back to normal.

Marc

Well, the way things are going they might be right, but the mantras about social distancing, the use of face masks and hand gels will probably remain. Whether people actually apply them is another matter. Probably not.

 

[Barry O]

while a lot of people are pinning their hopes on the "an injection will sort it  (which is not the case for another Covid. the "common" cold some of us are taking part in an experiment. It is called getting recreational cricket played.If the same happens for exhibitions as has happened in cricket then there are a huge number of problems to be cleared before exhibitions occur. Biggest problem is.. baffling documentation which puts the onus on everyone esle to sort out how best to do anything!

 

What it could mean:

 

1 social distancing of at least 2m, face masks if it ls down to 1m 

2  Exclusion zones for layouts and traders  of at least 1m ..but only with face masks worn

3 Every stand to have a "sanitization" station.. operators etc must santize their hands if they come into contact with others or touch anything brought into the layout

4 Traders to provide sanitisers both for themselves and also for stock items.

Card payments are much preferred - cards which need to be touched must be sanitised every time they are used

5 Toilets to be deep cleaned begore the start of the day and sanitized on a regular basis- ingress.egress routes to clearly identified

6 Stewards to check number of people entering, as well as forming into a group around layouts and displays

7 "group" entry limited to specific maximum groups (this will vary

8 Shows may have to cancel on the day of a show due to the enforcement of a local lockdown

9 Catering will be only available from competent catering suppliers and will not include any form of buffets (currently all players and officials in cricket are taking their own"teas")

10 Onus is on organisers to get it all correct, complete the Risk forms and enforce it all!

11 Everyone must leave contact details and names at the door (or better pre attendance) and Track and Trace system must be used to make sure anyone who becomes infected can have their contacts traced and warned.

 

And as if it wasn't going to be hard enough the Government documentation is as clear as mud and is very slopey shouldered.. and always changing...

 

As an example we were given a briefing by the people who run cricket ..the ECB and then more info for the people who run the scorers and umpires (ECB ACO) This came out 2 days before the first games could be played.. a week  later (last Thursday) another change or two came through. The volunteers running the clubs are shell shocked , The players are not happy with changes to how they have always played and the Umpires and  Scorers finding  it hard to enforce things such as sanitization.

 

 

As we have no "Governing Body" for shows thing swill possibly be worse. Already teh information on clubrooms is not clear and the onus is on the Clubs to sort out the mess. 

 

If someone is daft enough to run a Show this year.. good luck... but if a spike results because of it you may need more than luck....

 

Baz

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Barry O

[Ravenser]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

while a lot of people are pinning their hopes on the "an injection will sort it  (which is not the case for another Covid. the "common" cold some of us are taking part in an experiment. It is called getting recreational cricket played.If the same happens for exhibitions as has happened in cricket then there are a huge number of problems to be cleared before exhibitions occur. Biggest problem is.. baffling documentation which puts the onus on everyone esle to sort out how best to do anything!

 

What it could mean:

 

1 social distancing of at least 2m, face masks if it ls down to 1m 

2  Exclusion zones for layouts and traders  of at least 1m ..but only with face masks worn

3 Every stand to have a "sanitization" station.. operators etc must santize their hands if they come into contact with others or touch anything brought into the layout

4 Traders to provide sanitisers both for themselves and also for stock items.

Card payments are much preferred - cards which need to be touched must be sanitised every time they are used

5 Toilets to be deep cleaned begore the start of the day and sanitized on a regular basis- ingress.egress routes to clearly identified

6 Stewards to check number of people entering, as well as forming into a group around layouts and displays

7 "group" entry limited to specific maximum groups (this will vary

8 Shows may have to cancel on the day of a show due to the enforcement of a local lockdown

9 Catering will be only available from competent catering suppliers and will not include any form of buffets (currently all players and officials in cricket are taking their own"teas")

10 Onus is on organisers to get it all correct, complete the Risk forms and enforce it all!

11 Everyone must leave contact details and names at the door (or better pre attendance) and Track and Trace system must be used to make sure anyone who becomes infected can have their contacts traced and warned.

 

And as if it wasn't going to be hard enough the Government documentation is as clear as mud and is very slopey shouldered.. and always changing...

 

As an example we were given a briefing by the people who run cricket ..the ECB and then more info for the people who run the scorers and umpires (ECB ACO) This came out 2 days before the first games could be played.. a week  later (last Thursday) another change or two came through. The volunteers running the clubs are shell shocked , The players are not happy with changes to how they have always played and the Umpires and  Scorers finding  it hard to enforce things such as sanitization.

 

 

As we have no "Governing Body" for shows thing swill possibly be worse. Already teh information on clubrooms is not clear and the onus is on the Clubs to sort out the mess. 

 

If someone is daft enough to run a Show this year.. good luck... but if a spike results because of it you may need more than luck....

 

Baz

 

 

 

 

CMRA have a traditional co-ordinating function when it comes to exhibitions and a large membership of clubs. I would expect them to be de facto the clearing house for guidelines

 

On the basis of the above, I would expect:

 

- No catering at shows

- Pre-book tickets, giving contact details (something larger shows would be geared up for, but more of a problem for the small ones). Possibly booking for a "session" to control numbers - as the likes of English Heritage are doing

- Payment by card only , and contactless at that

- Exhibitors/traders in masks - and quite possibly the punters too. Possibly gloves (as in food preparation) for traders/operators

- It will be a great deal easier for small layouts with an owner and 1-2 other operators , as opposed to club layouts operated by a sizeable group of people

- Number 8 will need to be covered by the insurance, as with risks for snow, flood etc etc

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Ravenser

[Andy Hayter]

Except, on the last point, insurers have a good handle on the risks of snow and floods.  There is no track record for C19 and they will almost certainly exclude it from any claims for disruption.

[Barry O]

Gloves are a red herring (from an NHS Doctor).

You need cleanliness. So even with gloves on you need to sanitise them if you pick anything up. (So take your own sanitiser)

 

A lot of clubs will not have the ability to get enough PPE clad srewards to make it safe. The CMRA may be less helpful than usual as if the guidance you get is found not to work.well it is their advice you are following and some may come back for some financial recompense if they have a problem.

 

Hence the ECB and ECB ACO advice is not always as clear except for one thing..it is down to leagues, clubs and players to provide the rightsafe environment to play recreational cricket.

 

Baz

[Neil]

With the recent rumours that pubs, cafes and restaurants may be closed to allow schools to open I can't in all honesty see exhibitions taking place until some solution to CV19 is found.

[gwrrob]

On 05/07/2020 at 01:03, newbryford said:

 

I wonder if that's why a large show in October in Milton Keynes hasn't cancelled yet?

 

Nor the show in November at the Gaydon motor museum.

[Barry O]

A concern is that a  "golden bullet" solution using a vaccination will stop the pandemic then shows can restart is seen as the only solution. May be we have to look at a longer term way of making exhibitions more healthy environments.  This will not be cheap to do or easy to implement.

 

Baz

[john new]

Out of curiosity I ran a brief personal overview yesterday of the small, local, halls round us as to assess whether a small,  very locally based, show could be put on. Several had to be dropped off the list immediately as there is nowhere for attending layouts to load/unload and then have the vehicle parked up. (Why their current use is mostly birthday parties and the like) My wife and I then ran a memory check of where the toilets were, although this was from memory alone it left only one venue in a roughly ten mile area where separate in and out access/egress could be arranged and the toilets are suitable for any form of attendee social distancing in the access corridors etc.
 

A small club event, or a handful of layout owners clubbing together, may well be practical even with the current guidance, but actually finding a venue locally to do so won’t be easy.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by john new
Punctuation