On the Captain's Workbench - more panniers

[Captain Kernow]

I've now started another OO loco for 'Bethesda Sidings', which might be the last one in that gauge for a while, as 'Callow Lane' needs to be completed.

 

My starting point is an old Sutherland Model Casters whitemetal kit, which dates from the 1970s.

 

Although Sutherland kits had a good reputation in their day, this project is something of a return to old school modelling, such as I remember from years ago, when I used to build quite a lot of kits like this.

 

The wheels and chassis provided with the kit are not fit for purpose now, so they will not be used. The wheels are steel tyred, with plastic centres, quartered by a 'D' shaped fitting between the wheel and the axle (they may actually be old K's wheels). The frames have a large cut-out for an old-style motor and are really too flimsy for what is quite a heavy loco body.

 

The kit eventually became part of the NuCast range in recent years and has now been taken over by a partnership between SE Finecast and Branchlines, known as 'NuCast Partners'.

 

The kit I'm building is an original one from the 1970s, unstarted until I began work on it, but I am using the delightful etched nickel silver chassis recently produced for NuCast Partners by Justin Newitt and which is available separately.

 

Despite Sutherland having a better reputation for quality than (say) K's, the parts have all needed a lot of fettling before they can be fitted together, involving much filing, cleaning of clogged files, scraping of excess whitemetal away with a scalpel etc.

 

Although I am following the chassis instructions more or less to the letter, the Sutherland instructions are being adhered to in a slightly vaguer way. I decided that the priority was to ensure that the chassis frames fitted the footplate casting, once the buffer beams had been attached, so this is what I did first:

 

The footplate casting itself needed a lot of fettling, to remove excess flash, which I had done over the a period of a few months last year at DRAG meetings.

 

The area behind the buffer beams needs to be clear of all unnecessary whitemetal once the buffer beams have been attached:

 

I am soldering the body together where possible, using Carrs low melt solder.

 

One of the features of the new chassis is that the springs have the option of being 'beefed up' with an additional layer, which I chose to do. Unfortunately, I didn't realise that the High Level gearbox that I'm using (which I'd assembled a couple of years ago for something else, but not used it) is just shy of 11mm wide and that matches the distance between the etched frames, when building in OO. So, part of the spring overlay then had to be removed, to allow the drive extender from the gearbox to fit:

 

In the meantime, the motor was attached to the gearbox and given a bit of 'running in':

 

With the frames confirmed as fitting the footplate casting and the basic chassis assembled, it was time to solder in the hornblock assemblies for the leading two axles. This is to give basic three point compensation, which even in OO helps running and electrical pick up.

 

The frames were put into the chassis jig (Hobby Holidays) and made ready:

 

The hornblocks (which were spare Perseverance ones) need to be pressed onto the inner faces of the frames with springs. Here is one prior to soldering:

 

Once the hornblocks were in place, it was time to solder the coupling rods up and try them on the rolling chassis. One other thing I had to do was to fabricate and fit a compensation beam, as the NuCast Partners chassis is only designed for being built rigid or with springing, so it was necessary to mark the position for the beam pivot between the leading and middle axles, before the spaces for the hornblocks were cut out.

 

Here all the hornblocks are in place, together with the Markits wheels and the pivot for the compensation beam is also in place:

 

Here is the very basic chassis being shunted about on 'Bethesda Sidings' by 7418:

 

 

Happily, the chassis ran nice and freely when being pushed along. I am aware that the 16XX is riding a bit too low when compared with the 74XX, but I've since rectified that.

 

After that, I fitted the motor and gearbox and wired the motor directly to the controller and was very pleased to note that the chassis ran nice and smoothly under it's own power as well (because nothing runs very fast on 'Bethesda Sidings', the 16XX has a 90:1 gearbox).

 

This afternoon, I have turned my attention to the whitemetal body and soldered the basic cab structure in place. The photo belies the considerable amount of fettling required to get the castings to fit properly!

 

More in due course!

 

Edited March 31 by Captain Kernow

[melmoth]

I have one of the new breed to build in EM. 13 weeks of lockdown and all I've managed is to look at the instructions, while they in their turn stare back at me disapprovingly. I'm hoping your good progress will motivate.

[5050]

I found the Branchlines chassis an excellent investment.  I had a body built many years ago, fitting on a scratch built chassis which turned out to be to 'clever' for its own good.  I never got it to work satisfactorily and it also had a D11 and Romford gears (which shows how old it was!). One of the nicest parts of the Branchlines etch IMO is the etched cab back which I Araldited to the back of the already assembled kit one.  I've just had a look in my files and can't find any photos of this build which is surprising.  I'll dig it out tomorrow and post a couple of photos.

 

Are Rapido bringing one out RTR?  I don't keep up with all the latest gossip on RTR releases as 95+% of them are of no interest but I suppose it makes sense to do one as the other Panniers are all available.  I'll bet mine with its HL gearbox and Mashima and whitemetal weight runs better...................

[Captain Kernow]

Hi Paul, yes Rapido are producing a 16XX, although they are actually doing it for Model Rail magazine. The thread is here - 

 

 

You're right about the etched cab back, by the way! If I'd realised about the etched buffer overlays, I might have used them as well, but the original whitemetal ones aren't too bad, so they will be used, together with some sprung buffers.

 

[hayfield]

Thanks for showing the chassis build as I have just taken delivery of some High Level hornblocks and I have the Hobby Holidays jig

[Taz]

Very kind of you sir to find all the pitfalls before I start work on mine 

[Re6/6]

I have one and was fortunate that the body was built by Malcolm Mitchell no less! It was a perfect solder job, so much so that it was virtually impossible to see the solder lines. If only I could solder whitemetal as well as that!

 

The chassis is at the moment undergoing a 'heavy general' overhaul for me by CK which is proving troublesome. Maybe replacement by one of the above chassis will prove to be necessary.

 

The engine is destined to run on Marsh Sidings.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Re6/6

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, Re6/6 said:

I have one and was fortunate that the body was built by Malcolm Mitchell no less! It was a perfect solder job, so much so that it was virtually impossible to see the solder lines. If only I could solder whitemetal as well as that!

 

The chassis is at the moment undergoing a 'heavy general' overhaul for me by CK which is proving troublesome. Maybe replacement by one of the above chassis will prove to be necessary.

 

The engine is destined to run on Marsh Sidings.

Yes, unusual to have two 16XXs on the workbench at the moment. Here is a view of the chassis of John's P4 example, which was initially a lovely runner when first built, but has now developed problems:

 

It's currently having an extended stay on the rolling road.

 

[5050]

The 16xx pannier was always a favourite of mine since we had several shedded locally (at 84J Croes Newydd) when I was a lad.

 

However, following a midnight raid by the tartan clad Celts, we lost one!  It appeared later at Dornoch.  Never forgiven the Scots for that..........................

[MartinWales]

On 25/06/2020 at 11:19, 5050 said:

The 16xx pannier was always a favourite of mine since we had several shedded locally (at 84J Croes Newydd) when I was lad

Not 89B then?

[5050]

34 minutes ago, MartinWales said:

Not 89B then?

Surely you mean 89A?  Anyway, that's in England - almost as bad as Scotland.

 

But possibly more understandable

[5050]

Captain, as promised here are some shots of my 16xx build using the BL chassis.  I'm afraid that they're not to my usual high (HAHAHA!) standard but hopefully they'll do for now.

 

Here it is in all its glory, a bit fuzzy at the rear as the actress said to the bishop, but not bad considering.  Sanding gear rodding is what I fitted during the original construction many years ago, the kit rodding is still on the fret saved for a rainy day.  I actually think mine is a bit finer TBH.

 

 

Here is the chassis complete.  The motor is 'hard wired' in place from the PCB pickup 'plate'.  I suppose I could fit a flywheel but I can never be sure they actually make a lot of difference in practice.

 

 

And from the other end.  Pickups are mounted on a 'long U shaped' piece (to clear the motor and gearbox) of PCB attached to the top of the frames which avoids all the potential messiness with brake gear etc. underneath.

 

 

And here is the u/s of the chassis showing the PCB keeper plate attached with 8BA screws into tapped holes in 1/16th brass spacers, a single one at the inner end and 2 at the outer to allow for a semi-circular cutout to allow access to the body fixing screw.  The driven axle is held in place with my 'split-tube' method and (I think!) there are some thick washers either side of the gearbox to reduce sideplay to a minimum.  I always cut the springs off the etch to make fitting and removing axles much easier, something I end up doing a lot as the build progresses.  Once all is in place these were then soldered to the keeper plate.  Brake gear is clipped in place using very fine bore brass tube (0.45mm internal) soldered into the top hole of the shoes sliding onto projections of 0.45mm brass wire soldered to the chassis in the etched holes provided.

 

 

The u/s of the body showing that I needed to fit some plasticard pads to get the ride height correct.  I also cut a slot in the boiler to clear the rear motor drive shaft.  Injector pipes are bent up from steel florists wire and there was a fair degree of hacking away at the inside of the splashers.

 

 

And this is the original chassis which had 2 side beams between the front driven axle and the centre axle and a single central beam the other end.  Never could get it to balance properly and the loco had been sent to the naughty step for several years until Branchlines released ther version.

 

 

Hope this is useful!

[mike morley]

The Branchlines chassis has been mentioned favourably several times.  I have recently purchased an SE Finecast/Branchlines kit with a Justin Newitt chassis.  Are they the same thing?

[Adam]

8 hours ago, mike morley said:

The Branchlines chassis has been mentioned favourably several times.  I have recently purchased an SE Finecast/Branchlines kit with a Justin Newitt chassis.  Are they the same thing?

 

Yes. I have one of these, too. Taunton's 1668 (in EM) will eventually be the result.

 

Adam

Edited June 27, 2020 by Adam

[Captain Kernow]

Paul - thanks for the photos. I also have had to use some plasticard to increase the ride height slightly.

 

Fortunately, I don't have to hack at the inside of the splashers in OO, but I appreciate the tip, should I need to fit one of these chassis to my existing P4 one, which has had problems prior to this, although an extended spell on the rolling road (just like John's is having now) seems to have improved matters somewhat.

 

[AJCT]

On 25/06/2020 at 11:19, 5050 said:

The 16xx pannier was always a favourite of mine since we had several shedded locally (at 84J Croes Newydd) when I was a lad.

 

However, following a midnight raid by the tartan clad Celts, we lost one!  It appeared later at Dornoch.  Never forgiven the Scots for that....

 

Ha !  That'll be 1646, then... I think I encountered it on late-1950s family holidays in the Dornoch area, though it was classmate 1649 which gave me my first footplate trip.  As a memento of that I've always had an eye out for a 4mm model and my patience was rewarded a couple of years ago when I picked up a pre-owned built-up Nu-Cast one from Hatton's for a very reasonable price - complete with P4 chassis and Portescap 1219, no less.  It was sold as a "non-runner" but that was only because no-one had wired up the pickups !  So with a repaint and new number-plates it's now 1649, but it could still do with some brake gear - some of the the bits are still in the box but there are no kit instructions, so if anyone can tell me how this goes together I'd be grateful.  Anyone want a set of cabside plates for 1650?

My main interest is of course the Waverley Route, but interestingly it seems that both 1646 and 1649 were recorded as being hauled through Hawick on their way north to the Highlands.

 

Alasdair

[5050]

5 minutes ago, AJCT said:

 

 it seems that both 1646 and 1649 were recorded as being hauled through Hawick on their way north to the Highlands.

 

Under cover of darkness I presume

[AJCT]

51 minutes ago, 5050 said:

Under cover of darkness I presume

 

Well, I do know some-one who claims to have seen it, but he didn't say what time of day it was - I'll try and remember to ask him next time I see him....

[Captain Kernow]

A few days ago, I soldered the pannier tanks and the tank top sections in place, together with the 'under boiler' and the smokebox (most of the latter is hidden behind the pannier tanks).

 

The parts weren't the most brilliant of fits, with one pannier tank casting actually being longer than the other by just over 1mm!

 

So, much fettling was required, filing, scraping and sanding of whitemetal, to get them to fit in a way that I was happy with.

 

The original 1970s instructions simply advised one to assemble the relevant parts and didn't offer any guidance in how to acquire the additional two hands (or one extra hand, at the very least) that were necessary, in order to hold everything in place.

 

I was keen to ensure that the pannier tanks were at the right height. level and parallel with the footplate casting (which itself had to be continuously checked to ensure that the constant handling didn't put an unwanted bend or curve in it).

 

The solution was to cut four small cubes of balsa wood, to represent the correct height between the top of the footplate and the bottom of the tanks, so as to ensure the pannier tanks were at least parallel with the footplate.

 

A succession of tack solderings followed, with the alignment of the parts carefully checked each time, before more solder was used to properly secure the pieces in place:

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

The last few days has seen a bit more progress on the body:

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

As this kit is rather 'old school', there's a gap under the boiler, which really needs to be filled. There is a whitemetal 'underboiler' casting, but that has a large gap for the old type motors that were available in the 1970s, when the kit was designed.

 

I liked the way that High Level provide an 'underboiler' in their chassis kits, so I sought to replicate this, using a piece of spare brass, rolled to shape and two spare underboiler brackets from the High Level 74XX kit (the EM and P4 ones, which I didn't use). Both the support brackets were reduced in width before fitting, but the radius was pretty spot-on for what I needed:

 

Here is the underboiler now soldered in place on the chassis. The motor will rest on the piece of brass:

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

I've also now done the brake gear. This isn't designed to be removable on the NuCast Partners kit, as far as I can make out, but it's relatively straightforward to make it thus:

 

 

 

[AJCT]

11 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I've also now done the brake gear. This isn't designed to be removable on the NuCast Partners kit, as far as I can make out, but it's relatively straightforward to make it thus:

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the pics  of the brake gear - I think mine only has the shoes but I ought to be able to fabricate the linkage from some etch scrap or the like.  Could you tell me the dimensions of the long outside linkage pieces, please ?

 

To conceal the PortEscap 1219 I think my loco also has a home-made underboiler, which I've just realised I missed when I repainted the loco....

 

Alasdair

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by AJCT
Spelling !

[hayfield]

7 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I've also now done the brake gear. This isn't designed to be removable on the NuCast Partners kit, as far as I can make out, but it's relatively straightforward to make it thus:

 

 

 

Captain

 

A stunning bit of removable brake gear, what size and type of tube and wire do you use please

[Captain Kernow]

Alasdair & John, thanks for your kind comments. I'll check the answers for you later and get back to you.