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Leander45690

L-Shaped Problem - Track Plan Help!

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Hi guys,

 

I have an L shaped board built in the spare room. The dimensions are 10ft by 2ft on one side by 7ft by 2ft creating the overall dimensions of 10ft by 8ft. I am modelling in 00 gauge in the 1960s in the Ex-LMS region with Ex-LNER interlopers. I was would like to try and include the following features but I'm struggling to fit it in the space! Am I trying to fit too much into one space or am I just failing to find the balance between it all?

 

  • 4 platform suburban terminus
  • A small sub shed (+optional turntable)
  • A small goods yard
  • Possible carriage siding(s)?
  • At least 5 track fiddle yard

 

Cost and time isn't an issue as this is a relatively small layout. I have a multitude of different size locomotives from 4-6-2 pacifics to 0-6-0ST tank engines which I would like to incorporate but I can put the larger locomotives away if that's not possible!

 

Hopefully this sparks some interest! If not I'll struggle on haha.

 

Thanks,

Leander

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How long do you want your trains to be? You've got no real chance of running 8 coach trains in the space, but if 3 or 4 will do then you've got a chance, though even then I'd guess something from your list is going to have to be "off scene".

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Just now, Zomboid said:

How long do you want your trains to be? You've got no real chance of running 8 coach trains in the space, but if 3 or 4 will do then you've got a chance, though even then I'd guess something from your list is going to have to be "off scene".

I'd be happy with a 4 coach max length train with a 4-6-0. Prepared to compromise as there is a lot there! The effect I'm going for is a busy suburban station with semi fast and locals going in and out all the time with a small goods train every few hours for the local businesses. Almost like an alcove in Manchester or Leeds or Bradford if you get what I mean.

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Sounds generally achievable.

 

How will they be laid out? If the 10' side is along the top, is the other one at the left or right?

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56 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Sounds generally achievable.

 

How will they be laid out? If the 10' side is along the top, is the other one at the left or right?

The right so like a backwards r or an upside down L. The focus on the layout is intensive operation with facilities for quick changing locomotives and small freight operation.

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You already know the obvious answer to that question, I suspect. Minories or some variation on it. If you have a look through the back end of the Minories thread you'll see a bunch of variations (Seironim being a favourite of mine, which actually an attempt at something wilfully different) which could do what you need.

 

Presumably you're thinking mostly of RTR rolling stock, so using 2/3/4th radius curves to get round the corner of the L is acceptable?

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9 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

You already know the obvious answer to that question, I suspect. Minories or some variation on it. If you have a look through the back end of the Minories thread you'll see a bunch of variations (Seironim being a favourite of mine, which actually an attempt at something wilfully different) which could do what you need.

 

Presumably you're thinking mostly of RTR rolling stock, so using 2/3/4th radius curves to get round the corner of the L is acceptable?

Ah minories! Funny how we always come back to that haha. Yes minories has been a thought although I would like to know how to add a fourth platform face which can still access both running lines. I will definitely have a look.

 

Yes all my stock is RTR and all have proven they can take 2nd radius and even most 1st radius so it shouldn't be a problem.

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Even if not Minories, CJF designed many, many L-shaped terminus to fiddleyard layouts for comparable spaces.  A perusal of the various incarnations of 60 Plans, Plans for Larger Layouts (with a view to using one of the station designs from a larger layout) ,the lesser known Track Plans and his plan book for PSL should turn up at least half a dozen candidates to get you started.

 

Four roads for the terminus is a bit of an ask, as the pointwork eats up length very fast, but Plan 28L (PFLL 1st Edition) or L8 (PFLL 2nd Edition) gets all your wishlist into 10 feet length, with a short enough corner curve that you might squeeze a suitable traverser into the remaining leg of the L.

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If the throat uses at least some of the curve then I think some kind of 4 platform station should be doable. You might have to live with different length platforms though, a couple which will take 4 + loco, and a couple where only 3 will fit. But that'd only add to the fun for me.

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Goods wasn't going to fit in with this lot, but van and parcels traffic will go into a platform... Based on the Seironim design (as anyone who's read that thread will recognise...) The main line side should be OK with a fairly big engine and 4, the suburban side you're looking more at 3 coach trains if they're full size mk1s.

LeanderSeironim1.png.ff3966463b2279d4ceba649151f6e6ef.png

Which goes to show how much space gets eaten by a throat that'll feed 4 platforms. The turntable is ridiculously huge - clearly a smaller one will fit fine :)

 

The curves are 3/4 radius.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

Goods wasn't going to fit in with this lot, but van and parcels traffic will go into a platform... Based on the Seironim design (as anyone who's read that thread will recognise...) The main line side should be OK with a fairly big engine and 4, the suburban side you're looking more at 3 coach trains if they're full size mk1s.

LeanderSeironim1.png.ff3966463b2279d4ceba649151f6e6ef.png

Which goes to show how much space gets eaten by a throat that'll feed 4 platforms. The turntable is ridiculously huge - clearly a smaller one will fit fine :)

 

The curves are 3/4 radius.

 

I like the look of that--I had a go at a 10 x 2 plan for a terminus but without the TT:

 

1442269439_stationlner2curvedandds.jpg.100c0b4dfa0c5376efa9216bcb0eaa61.jpg

 

The entry / exit lines are bottom left and the station platforms located below the 3 upper sidings. The building top left is a loco servicing point and the adjacent lines go off-scene as a freight branch.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

 

 

 

Edited by tractionman
typo
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I think the fiddle yard needs to be included to know if there's enough length for a points fan or, if not, how much the station has to be re-aligned for a traverser.

 

A 5ft traverser should do the job (with loco lifts for running around and turning). The station might need to be shortened and angled towards the traverser to allow for maximum displacement.

 

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There was a not entirely dissimilar thread the other day. Compact terminus etc.
I came up with a "Minories on steroids"  concept.     Trains can arrive at the three top ones. 2/3/4  Trains can depart from all platforms. Which is necessary for ECS workings. Run round on 4 is for off peak when no pilot loco available.

The even bigger one has optional carriage sidings in blue. Approach double track viaduct or tunnel like Carlisle or Snow Hill 

Red line means arrivals at any upper platform while departures from any lower platform take place simultaneously.

Loco depot off scene so plenty of light engine moves.     Discuss. No time to bend it round curve at present but might give a prompt?

 

Screenshot (381)z1.png

Screenshot (381)z.png

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Thanks to everyone for their help! The plans people are coming up with are superb and I'm almost spoilt for choice! I like the idea of Zomboid's redesign of Seironim which incorporates much of what I was looking for. I will have a play around with the design. That is very impressive in 8ft David! Also looks cheaper in terms of pointwork as we all know how expensive slips are these days but for realism I don't mind buying one haha

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Harlequin is right, the whole scheme needs to be shown to know if it's viable. If that vertical run is indeed 8' long, I've left you with 6' for train storage and pointwork, which might be a bit more limiting than you'd like. You could do a hidden single to double junction on the curve to help with that.

 

An alternative might actually be to put the station along the shorter of the two sides. Don't know what that would actually mean yet in terms of what you could build...

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys,

 

Here is my attempt at the plan. I wonder if you could point any flaws out with it as I'm sure there are some!

 

Grey - 5 Road Traverser capable of 4 coaches and a pacific

Olive - Running lines (scenic break of a bridge half way round the bend)

White - Station throat

Pink - Locomotive facilities

Orange - Carriage/spare stock sidings capable of 5 coaches

Blue - Express platforms capable of 4 coaches and a pacific

Green - Suburban platforms capable of 3 coaches and a tank (runaround only 2 coaches)

Red - Goods/Parcels sidings using platform 4 runaround when arriving or departing

 

L-shaped Plan.docx

Edited by Leander45690

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Can't tell what track system you've used, but I'd assume streamline. I had a run round using the centre road too, but if you've left that out on purpose then no worries.

 

The goods is a bit far fetched. A city centre station line this would have a much bigger general goods facility somewhere down the line. Though a specific industry could exist there (Marylebone style milk, or something like a printing factory might be in the area, to take paper in and printed things out). A 7 plank open wagon full of coal though, you're not likely to see them here.

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1 minute ago, Zomboid said:

Can't tell what track system you've used, but I'd assume streamline. I had a run round using the centre road too, but if you've left that out on purpose then no worries.

 

The goods is a bit far fetched. A city centre station line this would have a much bigger general goods facility somewhere down the line. Though a specific industry could exist there (Marylebone style milk, or something like a printing factory might be in the area, to take paper in and printed things out). A 7 plank open wagon full of coal though, you're not likely to see them here.

Yes I used streamline. The reason I moved it was because I wanted the parcels and goods to use the loop as well so I put it closer to them.

 

Ah good point! I'll remove the coal staithe. Do you think I should put like a small dairy siding there instead of a goods shed? Would that be a bit more protoypical?

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It's up to you of course, but I'd think about the city your modelling and what type of industry might be in the centre of it. A dairy is definitely possible in a city centre, but if you don't really like milk tankers then do something else.

 

So I'd suggest thinking a bit about the back story of wherever you're imagining this being and choose accordingly.

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42 minutes ago, Leander45690 said:

Hi guys,

 

Here is my attempt at the plan. I wonder if you could point any flaws out with it as I'm sure there are some!

 

Grey - 5 Road Traverser capable of 4 coaches and a pacific

Olive - Running lines (scenic break of a bridge half way round the bend)

White - Station throat

Pink - Locomotive facilities

Orange - Carriage/spare stock sidings capable of 5 coaches

Blue - Express platforms capable of 4 coaches and a pacific

Green - Suburban platforms capable of 3 coaches and a tank (runaround only 2 coaches)

Red - Goods/Parcels sidings using platform 4 runaround when arriving or departing

 

L-shaped Plan.docx 122.51 kB · 3 downloads

 

I think you're trying to pack too much into the space. None of it fits together comfortably.

Is there enough capacity on the traverser? I think you need at least two more roads to match the station.

 

This all definitely feels more urban than suburban, BTW.

 

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1 minute ago, Harlequin said:

 

I think you're trying to pack too much into the space. None of it fits together comfortably.

Is there enough capacity on the traverser? I think you need at least two more roads to match the station.

 

This all definitely feels more urban than suburban, BTW.

 

Thanks Phil, this makes sense. I feared I might be doing that. Is there a way of increasing the fiddle yard capacity whilst keeping the length of the roads? What are the differences between the two in terms of railway stuff?

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21 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

It's up to you of course, but I'd think about the city your modelling and what type of industry might be in the centre of it. A dairy is definitely possible in a city centre, but if you don't really like milk tankers then do something else.

 

So I'd suggest thinking a bit about the back story of wherever you're imagining this being and choose accordingly.

More creative stuff! Do you know what was the major traffic in the Manchester area was at the time?

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It seems counterintuitive, but it may work better to have the terminus on the shorter leg and the fiddleyard/traverser on the longer leg with, of course, curved platforms.

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