My First Austerity

[doilum]

17 minutes ago, Ruston said:

I've found a photo of the Bagnall-built one at British Oak. It's a black and white, taken in 1953, so it's impossible to know the colour it was painted, except for it was a very dark shade. It has no lettering or numbering visible at all, so is a bit too boring and I won't be doing that one.

The IRS book has the WB loco named as Pepper. My guess is that orange links to the Cawood Hargreaves days of the late 1960s. If I remember correctly the corporate colour for Cawood was an amber yellow and became tangerine orange after the merger with Hargreaves. This is based on observation of the barges moored at Castleford. A neighbour was closely involved with the development of the pusher barges.

[Ruston]

3 minutes ago, doilum said:

The IRS book has the WB loco named as Pepper. My guess is that orange links to the Cawood Hargreaves days of the late 1960s. If I remember correctly the corporate colour for Cawood was an amber yellow and became tangerine orange after the merger with Hargreaves. This is based on observation of the barges moored at Castleford. A neighbour was closely involved with the development of the pusher barges.

The IRS also has the Bowers loco down as being named Pepper. Again, no number or name on that one in the photos. I don't think it was a loco name, even if it was carried at any time. Wm. Pepper had a Yorkshire 0-4-0ST at Darton with PEPPER painted on the tank, and the former LSWR B4 Class, also with PEPPER painted on the tanks.

[doilum]

6 minutes ago, Ruston said:

The IRS also has the Bowers loco down as being named Pepper. Again, no number or name on that one in the photos. I don't think it was a loco name, even if it was carried at any time. Wm. Pepper had a Yorkshire 0-4-0ST at Darton with PEPPER painted on the tank, and the former LSWR B4 Class, also with PEPPER painted on the tanks.

There is a good monochrome photo of RSH 7164/44 at Bowers Row in 1963 in Continent Coalfield and Conservation.

[Ruston]

23 hours ago, doilum said:

There is a good monochrome photo of RSH 7164/44 at Bowers Row in 1963 in Continent Coalfield and Conservation.

Is it a front view? I've got a good full page colour view in one of the Irwell Press Industrial Steam In Colour books, a small colour view of front on the interwebz, and a small monochrome in Castleford Colliery Railways, by Ron Rockett. The front colour view is interesting as the smokebox front is painted orange, with the door being black with polished steel hinges. I've seen another front view but monochrome, showing the contrasting colour but I can't remember where I've seen it.

 

Progress on the model is stopped for now. RT has no frame kits in stock at the moment and Eileen's Emporium are all out of handrail knobs.

[doilum]

18 hours ago, Ruston said:

Is it a front view? I've got a good full page colour view in one of the Irwell Press Industrial Steam In Colour books, a small colour view of front on the interwebz, and a small monochrome in Castleford Colliery Railways, by Ron Rockett. The front colour view is interesting as the smokebox front is painted orange, with the door being black with polished steel hinges. I've seen another front view but monochrome, showing the contrasting colour but I can't remember where I've seen it.

 

Progress on the model is stopped for now. RT has no frame kits in stock at the moment and Eileen's Emporium are all out of handrail knobs.

This is a side on view. The paint is faded and patchy, but, holding it to the light there is just the possibility that it once carried large letters on the tank. Squint a bit more and you can begin to convince yourself that the first letter might just have been a "P"...........

Any chance that Leeds City Libraries have it in their photo collection?

This thread has made me take a good look at my locos: they all need gussets adding and are missing pipework beneath the cab. I am not exactly sure of its function ( steam injector?) But almost all austerities have it, left and right, hanging below the front of the cab with an exit pipe curving behind the rear steps ( although I have seen at least one with a stubby forward facing exit). HE 2879/43 Diana is missing them. Was there an alternative arrangement? They do not appear on any other Hunslet including the 50550 class.

Any information gratefully received including a source for a goodm7mm casting.

Edited July 1, 2020 by doilum
Predictive text error

[Ruston]

1 hour ago, doilum said:

This is a side on view. The paint is faded and patchy, but, holding it to the light there is just the possibility that it once carried large letters on the tank. Squint a bit more and you can begin to convince yourself that the first letter might just have been a "P"...........

 

I might just get a decal made to have PEPPER on the tankside. Can you make out enough detail of what sort of font it could  be? Could you scan the picture and send it in a PM, please?

 

The Dapol model has got a roof hatch but no rails for it and I'm having difficulty finding shots of Austerity roofs. Does the hatch open like a caravan top light, which means there aren't any rails? Or should there be rails and Dapol have left them off for some reason?

[doilum]

6 hours ago, Ruston said:

I might just get a decal made to have PEPPER on the tankside. Can you make out enough detail of what sort of font it could  be? Could you scan the picture and send it in a PM, please?

 

The Dapol model has got a roof hatch but no rails for it and I'm having difficulty finding shots of Austerity roofs. Does the hatch open like a caravan top light, which means there aren't any rails? Or should there be rails and Dapol have left them off for some reason?

Sadly, no access to a scanner at present but the following might help: pictures of HE 3193/44 and RSH 7097/43 confirm the absence of rails for the roof hatch. When open (slides forward) there are tiny upturned sides to the aperture but these do not extend forward. The roof hatch is very slim in height. ( Ref: Industrial Steam by Adrian Booth. 

Interestingly, in his other book " Industrial Railways in Colour" there is a good picture of a immaculate WB 2749/44 which shows the weld marks of a three section tank. These are not ridges, more small grooves and could be evidence of a coal board fabricated replacement. This is also one of those locos which has two vertical lines of depressions from spot welding or riveting down the back of the bunker.

Further searching of Google image has turned up another image of the WB austerity at Bowers Row. This is a good three quarters view which sadly seems to confirm a lack of lettering. It is in the RTCS collection.

Edited July 1, 2020 by doilum
Additional information

[03060]

If you have Gordon Edgar's British Austerity Saddle Tanks book at your disposal then there are colour photos showing the roof hatches as described above ....open p.45 and 106, closed p.124 and 125 (or 4 and 5 pages from the back ...as there's a complete lack of page numbers in the last section !)

 

Looking forward to seeing the finished loco.

[03060]

Good Colour 3/4 photo of an Austerity in what I would say must be in Pepper's colours at Redhaugh. Forgotten how to do links but found it by googling 'British Oak Disposal Point' and looking at the Facebook page, not too far down in the posts. Hope this is what you were looking for.

Photo from flickr by Dereck Phillips 1.

Edited July 2, 2020 by 03060
Extra info added.

[doilum]

1 hour ago, 03060 said:

Good Colour 3/4 photo of an Austerity in what I would say must be in Pepper's colours at Redhaugh. Forgotten how to do links but found it by googling 'British Oak Disposal Point' and looking at the Facebook page, not too far down in the posts. Hope this is what you were looking for.

Photo from flickr by Dereck Phillips 1.

Sergeant Peppers Colliery Band?

[Ruston]

2 hours ago, 03060 said:

Good Colour 3/4 photo of an Austerity in what I would say must be in Pepper's colours at Redhaugh. Forgotten how to do links but found it by googling 'British Oak Disposal Point' and looking at the Facebook page, not too far down in the posts. Hope this is what you were looking for.

Photo from flickr by Dereck Phillips 1.

That's the one!

 

 

[doilum]

24 minutes ago, Ruston said:

That's the one!

 

 

Go for it!!!  Ford signal orange?

Edited July 2, 2020 by doilum
Additional information

[Adam]

Wow! That's quite a livery! Do it!

 

Adam

[Ruston]

4 hours ago, 03060 said:

Good Colour 3/4 photo of an Austerity in what I would say must be in Pepper's colours at Redhaugh. Forgotten how to do links but found it by googling 'British Oak Disposal Point' and looking at the Facebook page, not too far down in the posts. Hope this is what you were looking for.

Photo from flickr by Dereck Phillips 1.

By the way, the photographer must have got his caption mixed up. It's not taken at Redhaugh. That's Bowers Row. The water tank is the very same one in other photos of the site.

 

1 hour ago, Adam said:

Wow! That's quite a livery! Do it!

 

Adam

I'll certainly give it a go. What I will find difficult is painting the orange section of the tank with the curved corners so that it will match up with the corners on Fox transfers lining for the white lining. The rear of the bunker also has orange, lined in white.

[doilum]

8 minutes ago, Ruston said:

By the way, the photographer must have got his caption mixed up. It's not taken at Redhaugh. That's Bowers Row. The water tank is the very same one in other photos of the site.

 

I'll certainly give it a go. What I will find difficult is painting the orange section of the tank with the curved corners so that it will match up with the corners on Fox transfers lining for the white lining. The rear of the bunker also has orange, lined in white.

I thought the water tank looked fàmiliar. 

I might start with all over orange and then mask off for the darker colour.

Edited July 2, 2020 by doilum
Additional information

[mike morley]

Looking at that colour scheme, I assume Bowers Row is in the vicinity of Castleford?

(I ask as a namby-pamby, bed-wetting Southerner who was born and brought up within walking distance of Twickenham)

Edited July 2, 2020 by mike morley

[doilum]

15 hours ago, mike morley said:

Looking at that colour scheme, I assume Bowers Row is in the vicinity of Castleford?

(I ask as a namby-pamby, bed-wetting Southerner who was born and brought up within walking distance of Twickenham)

Just across the river in the city ( don't forget to spit) of Leeds!

On the site of an early colliery this was a disposal point for the post war opencast operations in the lower Aire valley. In many cases recovering the coal left underground by Victorian miners. Most of this coal was destined for a five mile river trip to the power station at Ferrybridge.

[doilum]

18 hours ago, doilum said:

Go for it!!!  Ford signal orange?

Is the rest blue, black or original WD green?

[Ruston]

38 minutes ago, doilum said:

Is the rest blue, black or original WD green?

Definitely black. There's a full page colour shot that shows it from the rear in the Irwell Press book Industrial Railways In Colour - Yorkshire.

 

I've been given a copy of a drawing, drawn by Don Townsley, and it confirms what I've suspected, by looking at prototype photos, about the tankside handrails on the Dapol model. The front handrail knob is too far back on it. I'll have to fill the holes and drill new ones.

 

The handrail knobs arrived in the post, this morning but I'm not going to fit them yet. I thought that as I've spent so much on this already, I'll not spoil the ship for a ha'pennorth of tar and have also ordered replacement dome and tank filler, from RT.

 

It's now that I have to decide whether or not I'm going to do something about the solid running plate and the box under the boiler. If Plastruct did a tube of sufficient diameter I'd do it, knowing it would weld to the existing bodywork but trying to get brass tube, or anything else, to stick is asking for trouble and will compromise the strength of the bodywork, such as it is.

[Barclay]

I think you should do it - it's a key issue in the rubbishness of the Dapol model, and you have already demonstrated that you are well up to the task!

[PenrithBeacon]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

...

 

It's now that I have to decide whether or not I'm going to do something about the solid running plate and the box under the boiler. If Plastruct did a tube of sufficient diameter I'd do it, knowing it would weld to the existing bodywork but trying to get brass tube, or anything else, to stick is asking for trouble and will compromise the strength of the bodywork, such as it is.

Splendid thread, really good. Could you not Araldite the tube in perhaps with a bit of support behind if there's room?

[Corbs]

21 hours ago, Ruston said:

By the way, the photographer must have got his caption mixed up. It's not taken at Redhaugh. That's Bowers Row. The water tank is the very same one in other photos of the site.

 

I'll certainly give it a go. What I will find difficult is painting the orange section of the tank with the curved corners so that it will match up with the corners on Fox transfers lining for the white lining. The rear of the bunker also has orange, lined in white.

 

I've been experimenting with this on the Bagnall and the Avonside (blue colour block with black surround lined in red).

 

On the Bagnall I sprayed the whole thing blue, then masked off the colour areas with Tamiya masking tape, used a sharp blade for the corners, then sprayed the black.

On the Avonside I did the opposite and sprayed it black before masking the black areas off and spraying the blue. This was easier as the kit was in separate components whereas the single piece kit of the Bagnall made that one easier to do the other way.

As long as the masking tape line is straight (and the paint layers not too thick) it's not too hard to get the lining in the right place. I used micro sol and micro set to help it adhere and prevent silvering. Then sealed it all with matt lacquer.

 

Bagnall body - you can see where I've started cutting the corners on some of the lining:

 

On the Avonside cab I just put the lining at an angle although the bunker section was cut with a knife:

 

 

[Ruston]

Can modelling masking tape be bought in sheets? I know someone who has a laser cutter and that's given me the idea that a mask cut to size, and with the corners already in it that match the radius of the lining corners, could be used.

[doilum]

45 minutes ago, Ruston said:

Can modelling masking tape be bought in sheets? I know someone who has a laser cutter and that's given me the idea that a mask cut to size, and with the corners already in it that match the radius of the lining corners, could be used.

The problem might be that, to get a good seal, the masking tape has to be stretched. A top quality tape, very sharp blade and practice on a smooth tin is the old school way.

Edited July 3, 2020 by doilum
Predictive text error

[Corbs]

One thing I have used is a blast of lacquer to help seal the edges of the tape and prevent bleed. Downside is it makes a thicker paint layer and requires going around the edge of the tape with a blade before removing it.