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Round the world trip. What is the wagon next to the brake?

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A fantastic picture on Flickr, loads of detail..

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrwestern/49969423308/in/[email protected]/

 

Two hole fishplates and a monster load.

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Don't know about the wagon, but what idiot put the side lamps up?

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I'd have a guess that is a Flatrol ELL. LMS Diag. 133E

 

There is a not particularly good photograph here:

https://hmrs.org.uk/photographs/a-ww2-80t-warwell-trolley-possibly-as-lms-diag-133e-flatroll-ell-introduced-late-in-war-for-large-usa-tank-some-used-by-br-as-roll-carriers-see-model-rail-july-2014.html

 

It is on page 93 in the British Railways Diagrams of Specially Constructed Vehicles book, available here:

www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/SpecialVehiclesIssue.pdf

 

A later photo from the same set on Flikr shows the train viewed from the brake van, where the other bolster can be seen from a more conventional angle (although still not very clearly).

Edited by Jeremy C

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2 hours ago, Jeremy C said:

I'd have a guess that is a Flatrol ELL. LMS Diag. 133E ...... the British Railways Diagrams of Specially Constructed Vehicles book, available here:

www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/SpecialVehiclesIssue.pdf

 

..... as modified to BR dia 2/802.

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19 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

Don't know about the wagon, but what idiot put the side lamps up?

I'm looking into that. It would be such a serious mistake normally. I wonder if it was meant to be as a local arrangement?

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It would totally defeat the objective of having side lamps. Fully fitted trains didn't have them or need them: in the event of a break-away both sections of the train would have the automatic brake operate and bring both sections to a stand. But loose coupled or partially fitted was different, and in the event of a break-away the driver might not know about it. He and / or the fireman had to look back occasionally to ensure that the brake van was still there and the train complete. But if you have a long train and there are a lot of vans or high sided wagons, you can't be sure that last vehicle you can see is the brake van, especially at night. So you put side lamps on it. These protrude beyond the width of the wagons and can be seen from the engine, at night because they display a white light to the front. If the enginemen can't see them, they must assume the train has broken into two and take the necessary actions.

 

The way these are attached, they cannot be seen from the engine. And that's the point about side lamps: they are to be seen from the front, not the rear, so the way they are makes them useless.

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You can also reverse side lamps to show red forward and white to the rear as a means of attracting attention if there is something wrong with the train.  This will get you stopped at the next but one signal box or possibly sooner if the reversed lamps are spotted sooner by someone, perhaps on a passing train.

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23 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

Don't know about the wagon, but what idiot put the side lamps up?

 

Probably one of the last times you'll see Western lamps on a brake van.

 

Sits back, and awaits thousands of examples....

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Early days yet but the first suggestion i've had from local traincrew is.. The line wasn't very well looked after.. anything sticking out would get knocked off by the vegetation. Once at Wroxham they would be arranged correctly.

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58 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Probably one of the last times you'll see Western lamps on a brake van.

 

Sits back, and awaits thousands of examples....

Standard pattern side lamps like those - but in black - were still being issued from central stores at least three years later.   And as BR was still running a few Class 9 trains into the 1990s they would still have been used on them.

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After further enqiries it has been pointed out the train is not underway in the shot. It is possible the side lamps are stowed as seen to indicate to the driver the train is not ready to depart. Perhaps a move had been agreed to get the train onto the running line and the guard is restoring the ground frame to normal. Once he is ready the lamps will be displayed properly and a more conventioal exchange of signals will be exchanged.

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Alright, but why put them up like that at all? Why not leave them on the veranda floor, which would be easier and achieves the same thing?

 

The guard does have duties which mean he has to leave his van, but I've never heard of him pulling the side lamps in first.

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If there was a propelling move right line on a running line, the sidelamps were put up without a tail lamp to both show white ahead of the van (the rear in normal running) as the train can be regarded as requiring white marker head lamps.  The loco is at the rear of the train and carries a red tail lamp.  

Edited by The Johnster

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Do you think that's what's happening here, with the train right road for a forward movement and tail lamp complete?

 

The side lamps have a white aspect to the rear, ready, presumably, to be place right way around to the outside. I just don't see the sense of putting them up the way they're shown. I suppose we all have our funny little ways, but I'm struggling with that one!

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