Fredo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Hi, Does anyone know where we can look to see which Jubilees were built with short and large fire boxes? Thanks Fred Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) Most of the details are on the Wiki page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Jubilee_Class#:~:text=The London Midland and Scottish Railway (LMS) Jubilee,with the LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0 . There is also this site as well. http://www.jubilees.co.uk/ Long fireboxes were 5665 to 5742. 5617 to 5664 had Stanier 3500 gallon tenders. The rest had 4000 gallon from new. Jason Edited June 28, 2020 by Steamport Southport Corrected numbers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Jason, hi, thanks for the links. We have seen a photo of 45596 in around 1960 and it has a Fowler tender, when the loco was withdrawn it had a Stanier tender and are trying to research when the change would have happened. Have you ever seen anything specifically about the tenders? Thanks Fred Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Tenders did get swapped around. But generally it was the earlier ones that had the smaller tenders as they had swapped them with the Royal Scots. Many of them then swapped tenders with 8Fs to give the Jubilee the bigger tender. The book that does have all the tender details in is the RCTS book The Jubilee 4-6-0s by Ray Townsin. However I haven't go that volume. As for 45596 I think it received a 4000 gallon tender when it got the double chimney in 1961. Photo here with the Fowler tender dated 1960. https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/45596-bahamas-lms-5596-br-45596/ Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbeagleowner Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 According to the Irwell Press book of the Jubilees 5596 got tender number 9045 on 23/8/60 and 10750 on 5/10163 Both of these are stanier 4000 gallon tenders. I do t have my RCTS so can’t tell you if they are welded or rivited though - sorry! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 9045 Rivetted 10750 Welded From the instructions on the Brassmasters website http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/StaniertenderInstns.htm Forgot about the Irwell book. Must add that to the list as well. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Thanks Steamport Southport and cbeagleowner 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Fredo said: Hi, Does anyone know where we can look to see which Jubilees were built with short and large fire boxes? Thanks Fred 6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: Long fireboxes were 5617 to 5742. With the obvious exception of 5642 which swapped identity with 5552 in 1935. The engines built with long fireboxes were 5665 to 5742 (from both Townsin and Irwell books). Several short firebox engines were converted to take long firebox boilers.11, according to the Irwell book, though 4 were later converted back to short firebox. Figures from Townsin are 10 converted, 3 reverted to short firebox. Edited June 28, 2020 by pH 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Oops. Sorry about that. Schoolboy error I'm afraid. Note to self. Look at the books on the shelves rather than looking online trying to get a quick answer. http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/djh/k318/index.htm Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 39 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Note to self. Look at the books on the shelves rather than looking online trying to get a quick answer. http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/djh/k318/index.htm Interesting! According to both books, the Stanier 3500 gallon tender/long firebox combination is correct for only 5665/5666 as built. (Don’t you just love the details of this class?) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 60027Merlin Posted June 29, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2020 Hopefully Bachmann will get get round to producing the long firebox variant as they announced both short and long types many years ago when the upgrade took place. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 The models produced before the last re-tool have long fireboxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted June 29, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2020 3 hours ago, 60027Merlin said: Hopefully Bachmann will get get round to producing the long firebox variant as they announced both short and long types many years ago when the upgrade took place. On a previous thread (a few years ago now) it was suggested that sales of the Jubilee had been 'disappointing' and that the long firebox version therefore wouldnt be pursued. Don't know how true that was but Jubilee's from the first and second batch were certainly available at heavy discounts for a while - I've still got two 'in store' that have yet to run bought cheap at the time. Hornby didnt help of course by 'stealing' the also planned Royal Scot and the easy spin-off rebuilt Patriot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 60027Merlin Posted June 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2020 22 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said: On a previous thread (a few years ago now) it was suggested that sales of the Jubilee had been 'disappointing' and that the long firebox version therefore wouldnt be pursued. Don't know how true that was but Jubilee's from the first and second batch were certainly available at heavy discounts for a while - I've still got two 'in store' that have yet to run bought cheap at the time. Hornby didnt help of course by 'stealing' the also planned Royal Scot and the easy spin-off rebuilt Patriot. Your comment reminds of viewing the Bachmann stand at the York Show some years ago when I heard a modeller asking them about the non appearance of the long firebox type and he was told what you write. He replied that this was no surprise as they had not produced a model suitable for just under half of the class! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 1 hour ago, 60027Merlin said: Your comment reminds of viewing the Bachmann stand at the York Show some years ago when I heard a modeller asking them about the non appearance of the long firebox type and he was told what you write. He replied that this was no surprise as they had not produced a model suitable for just under half of the class! But as around 50% of the straight throatplate engines had tender types that Bachmann have not tooled up the model is suitable for less than 30% of the class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 60027Merlin Posted June 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 30, 2020 Yet another reason! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted June 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2020 Plenty of long firebox versions on the older tooling still swirling the ocean of ebay too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Most eventually got 4000 gallon at some point or a normal 3500 gallon Fowler. They did swap around a lot. The problem is many people like me already have several Jubilees acquired over the last 40 years or so. I'm not suddenly going to replace them all with ones that are a bit better just because they are new. I would probably pick up a couple more though. Maybe they'll revisit it when the backlog has gone down. In two or three years the market might be a bit more suitable. There aren't that many big named engines about and the big manufacturers need the big ticket items. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Most eventually got 4000 gallon at some point or a normal 3500 gallon Fowler. They did swap around a lot. The problem is many people like me already have several Jubilees acquired over the last 40 years or so. I'm not suddenly going to replace them all with ones that are a bit better just because they are new. I would probably pick up a couple more though. Maybe they'll revisit it when the backlog has gone down. In two or three years the market might be a bit more suitable. There aren't that many big named engines about and the big manufacturers need the big ticket items. Jason Most of the tender swaps were between Stanier 4000g and Fowler 3500g types, the 50 Stanier 3500g (mostly) stayed with the jubilees, many probably on the same engine throughout their lives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 The odd Stanier 3500 gallon tenders appeared behind Rebuilt Scots ( 2 of them I think) and 8Fs. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 13 hours ago, Norton961 said: The odd Stanier 3500 gallon tenders appeared behind Rebuilt Scots ( 2 of them I think) and 8Fs. IIRC it was one tender which served behind two different Scots. The body of one of the Stanier 3500 gallon tenders was preserved with 8F 48305 being a bitsa united with an old Midland chassis. Last time I saw 48305 it looked like it now has a new welded tender body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 On 30/06/2020 at 13:49, 60027Merlin said: Your comment reminds of viewing the Bachmann stand at the York Show some years ago when I heard a modeller asking them about the non appearance of the long firebox type and he was told what you write. He replied that this was no surprise as they had not produced a model suitable for just under half of the class! I asked the very same question, and got the same answer: my reply was that this was little wonder, it's plain Jane versus pretty Jenny. The superior external form of the sloping throatplate Jube is as good an illustration as any of the proverbial 'If it looks right, it is right'. Sadly the knock on effect of this misunderstanding led to abandonment of their previously announced 'Total Retool' programme on the former split chassis models for 'Half a Model', and here we are still waiting for the V2 to be released as a decently accurate model twelve? years on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 60027Merlin Posted July 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2020 5 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said: I asked the very same question, and got the same answer: my reply was that this was little wonder, it's plain Jane versus pretty Jenny. The superior external form of the sloping throatplate Jube is as good an illustration as any of the proverbial 'If it looks right, it is right'. Sadly the knock on effect of this misunderstanding led to abandonment of their previously announced 'Total Retool' programme on the former split chassis models for 'Half a Model', and here we are still waiting for the V2 to be released as a decently accurate model twelve? years on. On another note, for those of us who model the Scottish and/or North of England areas the Jubilees most prevalent were the long firebox variants so we were snookered yet again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredo Posted January 19, 2021 Author Share Posted January 19, 2021 Hi, does anyone know if Bachmann based their Bogie Wheelbase for Jubilees on 6ft 3inches or 6 feet 6 inches. I know in OO gauge it does not really make any difference but curious. Thanks Fred Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 The one in front of me (the first new tool green one - 'Alberta ?') is 26mm - 6'6". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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