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Soldering Outside Cranks, can it be done?


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I have a small problem with my only outside framed loco. It doesn't like having outside cranks. To add to this, I live in the USA, where it takes ages to get anything shipped to from Alan Gibson's garden of plenty. So I was wondering if it is possible to make outside cranks from brass and solder them to the axles? Or will this simply melt the plastic part of the wheel?  Inquiring minds must know.

 

thanks,

Douglas

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Surely it depends on the wheels?

Markits do all metal wheels/axles/outside cranks, which screw together.

http://www.markits.com/MARKITS_Price_Guide_2013_09.pdf

 

I would be wary of soldering anywhere near the plastic centres on Gibson wheels, even though I would use them in preference to Markits.

What about the quartering, that would be an art getting right.

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Brassmasters sell an etched outside crank, which you laminate from several layers, if that is any use to you. I have put metal cranks on with solder. I held the axle with a narrow metal clamp, placed between the outside crank and the wheel. That may or may not have made the difference by acting as a heat sink but I was able to fix them on without melting the plastic wheel centre.

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1 minute ago, melmerby said:

Surely it depends on the wheels?

Markits do all metal wheels/axles/outside cranks, which screw together.

http://www.markits.com/MARKITS_Price_Guide_2013_09.pdf

 

I would be wary of soldering anywhere near the plastic centres on Gibson wheels, even though I would use them in preference to Markits.

What about the quartering, that would be an art getting right.

 

I soldered 3 on, on a 4 coupled loco and made the 4th crank a tight push fit with a tapered hole. Once the quartering was right, I secured that with solder too.

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Loctite? (The bearing retaing ones, not the Cyanoacrylates).

 

I'm not going to suggest it, but I have heard of people submerging the wheels in water with just crank/axle end sticking out and blasting it with a torch flame. Seems a bit much to me though.

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3 hours ago, brack said:

Loctite? (The bearing retaing ones, not the Cyanoacrylates).

 

I'm not going to suggest it, but I have heard of people submerging the wheels in water with just crank/axle end sticking out and blasting it with a torch flame. Seems a bit much to me though.

No it was the cyanoacrylates, i've used them before and they work fairly well, you just have to be very very very careful aligning them though.

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I have exactly this problem. Some of the Gibson cranks on my Aberdare have split soon after fitting (they were purchased in 2007 so age might be a factor). The Finney (now brassmasters) kit includes etched cranks that laminate together. They are meant for stepped ultrascale axles. If I carefully ream them out to be an interference fit on the Gibson axles I guess I can solder then onto the axles? 

If not what type of loctite would be suitable?

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31 minutes ago, Darwinian said:

I have exactly this problem. Some of the Gibson cranks on my Aberdare have split soon after fitting (they were purchased in 2007 so age might be a factor). The Finney (now brassmasters) kit includes etched cranks that laminate together. They are meant for stepped ultrascale axles. If I carefully ream them out to be an interference fit on the Gibson axles I guess I can solder then onto the axles? 

If not what type of loctite would be suitable?

Loctite 603 retainer would do it. Other retainers in the 6xx series may be stronger, fill greater gaps, or have better oil tolerance, but I doubt that these special features are needed for an outside crank.

 

All the retainer resins depend on having enough resin in the joint to expand into a firm seal. They're not likely to work in an interference fit. A sliding fit and relying on the resin to centre the shaft in the hole is better. 

 

If using retainer, you might consider filing a slight flat on the axle such that the retainer fillet stops the crank from rotating. The setting retainer might pull the crank slightly off-centre, but there's a good chance that all the cranks will be pulled off by the same amount so the rods won't mind. Disclaimer: I have not tried this approach.

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I have used the etched cranks on a Martin Finney Bulldog with Ultrascale wheels without melting the centres. Just make sure everything is spotless before you start to minimise the dwell time with the iron.

 

An alternative method would be to drill a hole in the boss of the crank through to the bore and make the fit of the bore on the axle a slight fit, just enough for quartering and when you are satisfied use the hole in the crank to drill a hole through the axle and out the other side of the crank and the push a piece of wire through and file it flush. That will effectively pin the crank in place. If you bend the wire slightly it will lock itself in place. If you ever need to remove the crank just tap the wire through with another piece of slightly smaller diameter held in a pin chuck.

 

Mark

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If you do what I did and use Loctite, be VERY careful. It wicks so easily that some got into the axel bearings of one of my locos and I didn't notice until smoke came out of  it as the chip fried (on it's first test run in public...).

As someone else advised, drill and pin (or even bolt) is the most secure method.

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