Lapford in N gauge.

[Cowley 47521]

20 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

That picture of 25 225 (which was a Cornish reg) on the ball clay, and all the other "Barney bits" in the shot has somehow just "fired something up within me" - Not sure what yet mind!!

I know what you mean. One of my most treasured memories is of seeing a 25 from the other side of the river at Bideford heading towards Meeth on a china clay train. It’s a line that’s remained unusual and interesting right up to the present day.

 I was very pleased to note that there’s still a couple of sidings and a mini loop just south of Barnstaple station the last time I went up there last year (as well as a few more at Crediton and the junction for Okehampton).

It’s slightly like one of the Scottish highland lines in some respects.

[dogbox321]

10 hours ago, Cowley 47521 said:

I hope I’ve got that right without getting too technical, but there’s a very interesting (and long!) thread on the subject here:

 

 

 

 

Thanks Nick.

                       I've had a look at the thread to try to aid my understanding.  Without trying to put a dampener on your wonderful work.  Sorry never been Lapford, although did go from Exeter to Meldon once, and Exeter many times whilst on holidays!   Funnily enough I have a bit of an erratic running Bachmann Class 47 in 4mm scale!  Must be your 47's big brother!  LOL!  I've invested in a couple of Revolutions 4mm IWA Holdalls - I take it in 2mm they will be very useful for you!

 

From that topic, and to double check my understanding:

- Lapford freight usually went to Barny to run around.  Then by the looks of it wagons were left in the station, whilst the loco used the loop to shunt into the sidings.  I'm expecting it entered via the Exeter end ground frame, as that would be the last one to then be given back to the signaller, prior to the trains departure for Exeter - enabling the signaller to check everything was in order with both groundframes, .   I seem to recall from video footage,  that at Crediton both Meldon and Barnstaple Lines have a token - so I take it from Barny to Crediton it is one train operation?  But could you lock a loco in at Lapford?

- In the photo of the 25, thats in the platform with its Clay Hoods, the GUV in the loop and at least a Mk1 in a siding?

 

Best Regards,

Chris.

  

[Ramblin Rich]

Given the direction of the sidings, if there was traffic for Lapford and Barnstaple it would make sense to drop off & pick up when traveling north so the loco is at the correct end for propelling into Lapford sidings. Shunt at Barnstaple then head back non-stop through Lapford south bound. Having said that, before the Ambrosia factory closed the milk tanks would need picking up in the southbound direction which makes things more interesting! There's a picture in the 'Devon & Cornwall Railfreight' book from 1969, showing 2x class 22s with the milk train from Torrington shunting the sidings. Strangely the main train is still coupled up, so the locos have 3 tanks ahead of them (being pulled out of the siding) and around 10 behind them, trailing off down the line towards Barnstaple. A strange sandwich to be sorted out by running around some part of the train in some fashion.... Any traffic just for Lapford eg UKF fertilizer in the 1980s could be dropped off / picked up, run round in the loop & set off back to Crediton.

There are token machines at Crediton and Eggesford for that section of the line (the Okehampton/Meldon line being separate from Crediton since the early 1970s and another section Eggesford to Barnstaple), but I'm sure I've read about there being a short section Crediton to Lapford token allowing access to the sidings; there is (or was in 2012) a 'Limit of Lapford token' sign visible north of the foot crossing. Not sure whether trains could be 'locked into' the loop with that token to allow others past, but it seems pointless having that short section if not....

Re: the class 25 image in the other thread, the picture is looking north with the clay train alongside the former island platform. The GUV is in the 'middle siding' and the Mk1 is alongside the main / 'up' side platform, now the only existing line where the station building is.

EDIT: for clarification, the image being referred to is at Barnstaple, not Lapford.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ramblin Rich
clarification

[Cowley 47521]

31 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Given the direction of the sidings, if there was traffic for Lapford and Barnstaple it would make sense to drop off & pick up when traveling north so the loco is at the correct end for propelling into Lapford sidings. Shunt at Barnstaple then head back non-stop through Lapford south bound. Having said that, before the Ambrosia factory closed the milk tanks would need picking up in the southbound direction which makes things more interesting! There's a picture in the 'Devon & Cornwall Railfreight' book from 1969, showing 2x class 22s with the milk train from Torrington shunting the sidings. Strangely the main train is still coupled up, so the locos have 3 tanks ahead of them (being pulled out of the siding) and around 10 behind them, trailing off down the line towards Barnstaple. A strange sandwich to be sorted out by running around some part of the train in some fashion.... Any traffic just for Lapford eg UKF fertilizer in the 1980s could be dropped off / picked up, run round in the loop & set off back to Crediton.

There are token machines at Crediton and Eggesford for that section of the line (the Okehampton/Meldon line being separate from Crediton since the early 1970s and another section Eggesford to Barnstaple), but I'm sure I've read about there being a short section Crediton to Lapford token allowing access to the sidings; there is (or was in 2012) a 'Limit of Lapford token' sign visible north of the foot crossing. Not sure whether trains could be 'locked into' the loop with that token to allow others past, but it seems pointless having that short section if not....

Re: the class 25 image in the other thread, the picture is looking north with the clay train alongside the former island platform. The GUV is in the 'middle siding' and the Mk1 is alongside the main / 'up' side platform, now the only existing line where the station building is.

I read the last post by @dogbox321 during my morning break and was trying to think how I was going to reply to it at lunchtime.

May I just say thank you very much Rich! 
I remember it being covered in the linked thread but it would have taken quite a bit of searching.

 

Nick

[dogbox321]

Hi, thanks.  I think I understand that pretty much.  So there used to be an island platform as well, so would that make it a 3 platform station back in its hayday?   Really surprised as with the signal box and bridges, its pretty tight on space.

 

Sorry about all the questions, but having been to Exeter many times in since the 1980's then I find the area really interesting to find out about.  Will there be any of Revolutions IWA's for the layout?  I must say, after reading about the Barny Line - in hindsight glad I got a couple of Bachmann Ciba TTA's (Didn't know what they were used for)!  Will give you a rest now, Nick.

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris.

[TomJ]

17 minutes ago, dogbox321 said:

Hi, thanks.  I think I understand that pretty much.  So there used to be an island platform as well, so would that make it a 3 platform station back in its hayday?   Really surprised as with the signal box and bridges, its pretty tight on space.

 

Just two platforms. The ‘down’ platform in the Barnstaple direction was an island platform on the other side of the bridge from the up platform and station buildings. It was accessible from the bridge and had a little staff hut on it - opened when trains were due. 
After Lapford stopped being used as a passing loop this platform was unused and derelict (and eventually disappeared) - all passenger trains using the old up platform

[TomJ]

The IWA wagons are much too recent - being converted to timber used in 2013. Long after freight to Lapford had ended. For the 80s you want the OTA wagons. There was an N gauge kit from Cheivers/Slimrail, not sure if it’s still available 

[Ramblin Rich]

1 hour ago, dogbox321 said:

Hi, thanks.  I think I understand that pretty much.  So there used to be an island platform as well, so would that make it a 3 platform station back in its hayday?   Really surprised as with the signal box and bridges, its pretty tight on space.

 

Sorry about all the questions, but having been to Exeter many times in since the 1980's then I find the area really interesting to find out about.  Will there be any of Revolutions IWA's for the layout?  I must say, after reading about the Barny Line - in hindsight glad I got a couple of Bachmann Ciba TTA's (Didn't know what they were used for)!  Will give you a rest now, Nick.

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris.

Penny drops - the class 25 picture is at Barnstaple, not Lapford. It's in a thread about the traffic on North Devon line in general.

[jcredfer]

2 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

Hi, thanks.  I think I understand that pretty much.  So there used to be an island platform as well, so would that make it a 3 platform station back in its heyday?   Really surprised as with the signal box and bridges, its pretty tight on space.

 

Many thanks.

 

Chris.

 

This might help...   All the original sidings, but I removed the Eastern platform, for another reason.  BTW, the padestrian route between the two platforms was to climb steps onto the main road bridge and cross the lines that way.  {Not for the faint hearted in these days.}  Signal box was opposite the Western end of the main platform.

 

 

Now, later with a siding gone, but the second platform in still illustrated.

 

Hope this helps.

Julian

 

[Ramblin Rich]

2 hours ago, TomJ said:

The IWA wagons are much too recent - being converted to timber used in 2013. Long after freight to Lapford had ended. For the 80s you want the OTA wagons. There was an N gauge kit from Cheivers/Slimrail, not sure if it’s still available 

There are pictures of the IWA 'holdalls' at Lapford in the last years of the fertilizer traffic up to 1993, replacing the original UKF PWA wagons .

[Cowley 47521]

1 hour ago, Ramblin Rich said:

There are pictures of the IWA 'holdalls' at Lapford in the last years of the fertilizer traffic up to 1993, replacing the original UKF PWA wagons .

I had no idea that they were even used... Very interesting. 

Sorry I haven’t been able to reply to much today but it’s been a bit hectic with one thing and another.

 I did build a few of those OTAs but I think I’ve improved my skills a bit this last few months and I wouldn’t mind having another go.

There’s a couple behind the cement tanks here:

[dogbox321]

11 hours ago, jcredfer said:

 

This might help...   All the original sidings, but I removed the Eastern platform, for another reason.  BTW, the padestrian route between the two platforms was to climb steps onto the main road bridge and cross the lines that way.  {Not for the faint hearted in these days.}  Signal box was opposite the Western end of the main platform.

 

 

Now, later with a siding gone, but the second platform in still illustrated.

 

Hope this helps.

Julian

 

 

Thats Great - many thanks.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris

[dogbox321]

10 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

There are pictures of the IWA 'holdalls' at Lapford in the last years of the fertilizer traffic up to 1993, replacing the original UKF PWA wagons .

 

Think on the Rail Freight Today South West - There is a scene with both Pal Van's and IWA Cargowaggons mixed doing a shunt at Lapford with an RFD Class 47. 

[dogbox321]

8 hours ago, Cowley 47521 said:

I had no idea that they were even used... Very interesting. 

Sorry I haven’t been able to reply to much today but it’s been a bit hectic with one thing and another.

 I did build a few of those OTAs but I think I’ve improved my skills a bit this last few months and I wouldn’t mind having another go.

There’s a couple behind the cement tanks here:

 

Very nice shot.  Your station and scenic modelling work is excellent, and add the fact that its 2mm scale and its fantastic. Whilst improving is always good news - I would not worry too much about the OBA's.  They were pretty much always dirty (muck can hide a multitude of sins) and banged with logs/loading machines.  Your certainly getting your moneys-worth out of your Crompton!

 

Its amazing when you look at the Devon and Exeter Area into what actually took place.  There cannot be many Class 37's and Class 47's that did not make their way down there one way or another.  And then there is the sheer variety of freight conveyed in either short wagonloads or long trainload formations!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris.

[Ramblin Rich]

The 'Lapford short token' has been niggling in my mind.

This is from the text at the start page of the 2nd Cyberheritage site http://www.cyber-heritage.co.uk/north_devon_line_okehampton_web_optimised/index.html

"Shot 576 shows the empty Pallet vans coming back from Lapford. These where conveyed on the Sundays only UKF Fertilisers train from Ince and Elton to Truro and where detached at Exeter . They where then tripped to Lapford on the Monday morning, the engine would then return light from Lapford and would also serve the oil sidings at Tiverton Junction if required. Any engine could turn up on this train, I can remember a Peak on one occasion. The freight did not run to Barnstaple on a Monday in those days. The loaded Pallet vans had too high an RA to run to Barnstaple but I did see a rake of empty ones down there once. A light engine would go down to Lapford on the Monday afternoon to pick up the empties. I remember once the engine turned up with just a margin to run to Lapford and lock itself away in the sidings. I shouted up to the traincrew to come on the phone as soon as they got to Lapford. Did they hell! They went to Lapford, pulled the wagons out of the sidings, ran round them and then came back to Crediton. All this time the up passenger was stood at Eggesford. I believe the guard got a form 1 over it."

BUT - then I found the caption in David Mitchell's 1993 'Past & Present - Devon' book which says the fertilizer wagons were tripped from Exeter Riverside to Lapford at 04.20 "This working has to be completed before the passenger service starts as it is not possible to lock a train into this yard since the closure of Eggesford box".

So it looks like the train could be locked into the Lapford sidings up until 1987 when Eggesford box closed.

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Ramblin Rich
inserted link

[Cowley 47521]

10 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

Very nice shot.  Your station and scenic modelling work is excellent, and add the fact that its 2mm scale and its fantastic. Whilst improving is always good news - I would not worry too much about the OBA's.  They were pretty much always dirty (muck can hide a multitude of sins) and banged with logs/loading machines.  Your certainly getting your moneys-worth out of your Crompton!

 

Its amazing when you look at the Devon and Exeter Area into what actually took place.  There cannot be many Class 37's and Class 47's that did not make their way down there one way or another.  And then there is the sheer variety of freight conveyed in either short wagonloads or long trainload formations!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris.

Thanks Chris that’s really nice of you.

 

Yes it is surprising what variety we got down here in those days.

I’m intrigued by the post by Rich above where the guy seems to be saying if I’ve read it correctly that a Peak made it up to Lapford on one occasion? I know that they frequently went to Meldon but I didn’t think they ever went north of Coleford Junction?

 

Re the 37s and 47s down this way I remember 37s being a bit unusual around Exeter until about 1987 and they became more and more common, and 47 wise there can’t have been many that didn’t reach here.

[dogbox321]

My pleasure, at the end of the day you have some lovely 2mm modelling which you should be rightly proud of!

 

RE Rich, with the loop and even sidings at Lapford having trap points, you would have thought it very possible to lock a train in.  I suppose the main question is, how the release for loop and sidings was given - a key on the token, or to get a release from a signaller (such as Bardon for the quarry sidings).  I know for example on the Matlock branch its no signaller token- its a token machine at Ambergate platform, and if necessary you can lock a train in the siding next to the peak rail connection if required, with the token machine at Matlock to allow this.

 

My initial thoughts - with no knowledge of the immediate area was that a signaller would release the frames and upon shunting being complete, could check everything was correct when the groundstaff advised them they had completed the shunts and ready to return.  (Perhaps Eggisford before closure?)

 

I take it freight at Lapford always used the platform track on arrival and departure (suggested in a couple of photos I've seen - with freight using the platform)?  Whilst I would say that is pretty unusual, from a risk perspective I suppose it ensures points are correctly set for the next passenger train into the platform.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris.

 

 

[Cowley 47521]

Hello everyone. Hope you’re all doing well?

 I thought I’d better provide a brief update on things that have been happening over the last few months...

 

Well all in all not a great deal actually, but one thing that’s for sure is that the amount of time and effort I’ve expended on the house over the last year has put a stop for now on my original plans of building a cabin in the garden to house the railway and my other half’s hobby stuff.
 

That said I have taken the spare room over now and built a trolley for the layout to sit on with some rather natty fold up extensions at each end so that when I want a running session I can pull the whole lot out into the room and I’ve got an extra 75cm of scenic section each end to get my teeth into once that thing called Christmas is done with. 
 

Here’s a couple of photos showing the trolley (I call it my railway gurney) and the new fold up bits ready to go:

 

 

 

And put away:

 

 

At the Barnstaple end of the layout you’ll notice that I’ve made a wider board around the back because I’ve decided to use something that’s slowly been making my brain hurt over the occasional evening... I’d originally wanted to make a reasonably good scale version of Eggesford and I’ve been attempting to grapple with making some of the buildings, but obviously now that the shed plans have changed I didn’t really know what to do with them, so for a bit of fun I’ve decided to stick it on the fiddle yard side of board and change geography slightly by putting a bridge at the north end of the platforms (sacrilege!) which will be the scenic break into the fiddle yard. 
What we’re basically looking at is a cameo of Eggesford really (or “Eggishford” as Sean Conery might have said). 
I’d like to get the short staggered platforms, signal box and level crossing in etc, and as it curves away behind the backscene into the Lapford section I want the line to gradually disappear into a tunnel of trees. 

Here’s my attempt at the buildings. Not perfect but with a bit more work hopefully they’ll do the job:

 

 

And then a couple of photos of things placed to see if it could work:

 

 

 

 

So there you go, the other thing to mention is that I managed to get my uncoupling magnets working after I ended up having to dig them out and reset them, but I’ll post a video of that when I get a minute. 
Thanks as always for reading.
 

Right then. Does anyone know where I can buy 1.2 million N gauge trees for not very much money..?

[Cowley 47521]

I don’t know why the pictures are so fuzzy. I’ll post a couple of better ones tomorrow.

[Ramblin Rich]

Very nice! Good to see you're still making progress.

Have you got actual plans of Eggesford station, or are you working from photos?

[Cowley 47521]

2 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Very nice! Good to see you're still making progress.

Have you got actual plans of Eggesford station, or are you working from photos?

Thanks Rich. I’ve done a couple of visits and taken a load of photos but I haven’t measured it or anything sensible like that!

I’m going for if it looks right then I’m happy enough (I’d never get round to starting it if I thought about it too much).

[jcredfer]

4 hours ago, Cowley 47521 said:

Thanks Rich. I’ve done a couple of visits and taken a load of photos but I haven’t measured it or anything sensible like that!

I’m going for if it looks right then I’m happy enough (I’d never get round to starting it if I thought about it too much).

 

You do have the outstanding advantage, that the majority of the country {majority, although there are some of us from thereabouts} don't even know where Eggesford is, let alone what may lurk behind the screens of coniferous trees.   

 

Julian

 

[Cowley 47521]

Right here’s a couple of photos I just took showing the Eggishford buildings a bit clearer. 
 

 

 

(I’m actually happier with the roadside view at the moment but as with Lapford that’s the side it’ll be viewed from)

I’ve also got a little Lapford sign now made by a friend of a friend that I’m rather pleased with (and an Eggesford one too which could be seen as a statement of intent):

 

 

Here’s a little clip of a freight drop off using the magnets. I’ll do a better one when my Christmas present arrives. 

 

 

[Cowley 47521]

3 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

 

You do have the outstanding advantage, that the majority of the country {majority, although there are some of us from thereabouts} don't even know where Eggesford is, let alone what may lurk behind the screens of coniferous trees.   

 

Julian

 

What are you saying? It’s the centre of the universe!
It’s where the monoliths come from...

(I’m sure that reference won’t age)

[jcredfer]

2 hours ago, Cowley 47521 said:

What are you saying? It’s the centre of the universe!
It’s where the monoliths come from...

(I’m sure that reference won’t age)

 

Centre of the Universe, just so true!!  The centre of a real civilisation, where peaceful folk could exist with mutual support, with sensible caution about the monoliths and much social fun in the village hall - something which suffers a natural diminishing return - inversly proportional to the distance from Eggesford. 

 

Also one of the start points for the RAC Rally, in 1971, which included an additional steam roller hazard round the second bend from the start.   Oooopps!!  It claimed the first three off the Mark.  The moral of the story is - don't mess with the Eggesford monoliths!!

 

julian