ForeverAutumn Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) Hello, i am in the process of building an OO gauge Layout (branchline and a section of mainline) and wanted to know what the best point motor for a DCC Layout, i want something that can be wired to a control panel, lasts a long time, works well, and isn't too hard to obtain in the United States, if you need details its a code 75 track with my controller likely gonna be something from GaugeMaster or the NCE PowerCab as I have used it in the past and found it pretty decent. -regards Pat Edited June 29, 2020 by ForeverAutumn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Tortoise by Circuitron is a US product. It is a slow motion turnout motor and can be adapted to DCC by the addition of a stationary decoder. I'm using these and Wabbits for my 7mm layout. However, they are more than 20 years old and still work, so that's something. http://www.circuitron.com/ https://store.sbs4dcc.com/DCCSpecialtiesWabbitStationaryAccessoryDecoderVer.1.aspx If you want something simpler, Blue Point turnout controllers are also US. My friend has these on his layout and I was impressed when I was on his operating team a couple of years ago. https://ppw-aline.com/collections/blue-point-manual-turnout-controller With DCC operated turnout control you don't need a control panel. I'm using momentary switches to control turnouts. These are mounted adjacent to the turnouts. You can also remotely control turnouts using the stationary decoder address function. Also note the fascia panels that permit loco control from anywhere on the layout. The buttons and panels are duplicated on the opposite side. There are more modern systems such as Cobalt by DCC Concepts. Not sure of the availability in the US. Tony's Trains is a good resource: https://tonystrains.com/ John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted June 29, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 29, 2020 I am using servos now controlled by Megapointscontrollers servo controllers (https://megapointscontrollers.co.uk/?v=79cba1185463). If you need a few, they work out much cheaper and I like the control you get from them. I am just in the process of converting my last layout to them. It did have DCC Concepts surface mount point motors, but they were so unreliable that they had to go. Roy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, brossard said: Tortoise by Circuitron is a US product. It is a slow motion turnout motor and can be adapted to DCC by the addition of a stationary decoder. I'm using these and Wabbits for my 7mm layout. However, they are more than 20 years old and still work, so that's something. http://www.circuitron.com/ https://store.sbs4dcc.com/DCCSpecialtiesWabbitStationaryAccessoryDecoderVer.1.aspx If you want something simpler, Blue Point turnout controllers are also US. My friend has these on his layout and I was impressed when I was on his operating team a couple of years ago. https://ppw-aline.com/collections/blue-point-manual-turnout-controller With DCC operated turnout control you don't need a control panel. I'm using momentary switches to control turnouts. These are mounted adjacent to the turnouts. You can also remotely control turnouts using the stationary decoder address function. Also note the fascia panels that permit loco control from anywhere on the layout. The buttons and panels are duplicated on the opposite side. There are more modern systems such as Cobalt by DCC Concepts. Not sure of the availability in the US. Tony's Trains is a good resource: https://tonystrains.com/ John i've heard good things about the tortoise, much thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: I am using servos now controlled by Megapointscontrollers servo controllers (https://megapointscontrollers.co.uk/?v=79cba1185463). If you need a few, they work out much cheaper and I like the control you get from them. I am just in the process of converting my last layout to them. It did have DCC Concepts surface mount point motors, but they were so unreliable that they had to go. Roy ill look into that, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2020 Tortoises are not cheap, but the dozen or so I installed circa 2007 with Hare decoders work perfectly with either local switch control or DCC addressing. They have all been under power 24/7/365 continuously since installation without a failure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 looks as though most are suggesting tortoise, looks like ill most likely be getting them! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 One thing to be aware of with Tortoises is that they come with 0.020" steel operating wire. My experience with 00 is that this is too wimbly and should be replaced by 0.032" wire (I actually used 0.055" for my 7mm turnouts). The other thing is that the connections are rather crude and prone to shorting (ask me how I know ). D connectors are recommended. Now Cobalt fixed these issues by coming with pre bent 0.032" steel wire and no solder connections. Our club layout has Cobalts and there has been no problem AFAIK. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted June 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, brossard said: One thing to be aware of with Tortoises is that they come with 0.020" steel operating wire. My experience with 00 is that this is too wimbly and should be replaced by 0.032" wire (I actually used 0.055" for my 7mm turnouts). Had the same experience, especially once the turnouts had been ballasted and painted. But replacing the steel operating wire is very simple. Just go to Ebay and scan for "piano wire". A couple of metres (0.032", .825mm, size 14) will easily do a dozen or more Tortoises. The instructions have a template to bend them to shape. Unless you want to operate these via DCC then a simple DPDT switch on your control panel is all you need. Edited June 30, 2020 by RFS 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Quite right RFS. My first layout started as DC but I hated how it ran (always forgetting to select blocks) so quickly converted to DCC. The Tortoise motors (now recycled into the new layout) were controlled by a separate DC power supply and DPDT switches on a control panel. This is pretty complicated requiring a lot of wiring. Plus, I had a switch fail during a show. IMO, more efficient to use stationary decoders set up as in the pic above. Or, as I mentioned, use a manual system like Blue Point. Cheaper and no wiring at all. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) replacing the wire might be a bit of a drawback (which i wouldn't mind doing really) however i will consider all of these facts, Blue Point seems alright from what you say, ill look into them a bit more edit: ive started to browse the cobalt on DCC concepts and it looks appealing, but i would rather your input on them, Edited June 30, 2020 by ForeverAutumn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexAshton Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Tortoises are guaranteed for life - not that I know anyone who's had a failure. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, RexAshton said: Tortoises are guaranteed for life - not that I know anyone who's had a failure. that should help in deciding then, that's always a factor I'm looking for 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Guarantees don't enter into it for me. Not really worth the bother of claiming. Most things I can fix myself. Many of my Tortoises have been disassembled at least once. Then again, I never had one fail. I have no direct experience with Cobalt other than the club layout has them. Never heard a complaint. Their design does address the annoyances that Tortoises have (I think DCC Concepts reverse engineered them). John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 Cobalt is starting to appeal to me, lets just hope DCC Concepts does worldwide shipping! Any complications with cobalt that I should be aware of? Pat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) I can recommend Hattons without reservation. I've used them for years, low shipping cost and same day shipping. Email feedback for the order progress. Good support. https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000511/1000594/1551664/0/dcc_concepts_any_or_multiple_scales_point_motors/prodlist.aspx Only drawback is that the motors are on pre-order. This seems a common thing just now. Oh and a very important point is that UK pricing includes 20% VAT. If you are outside the UK and EU, Hattons take off the VAT. You need to factor that in. John Edited June 30, 2020 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, brossard said: I can recommend Hattons without reservation. I've used them for years, low shipping cost and same day shipping. Email feedback for the order progress. Good support. https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1000511/1000594/1551664/0/dcc_concepts_any_or_multiple_scales_point_motors/prodlist.aspx Only drawback is that the motors are on pre-order. This seems a common thing just now. Oh and a very important point is that UK pricing includes 20% VAT. If you are outside the UK and EU, Hattons take off the VAT. You need to factor that in. John Thats not too bad, i noticed on DCCC's website that there are several types of motors: a Classic, IP Analogue and an IP Digital, would i be correct in guessing these merely for different controls like DC and DCC? Pat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 DCC Concepts are very good at throwing a bewildering array of choices at you and I just get confused. My guess is the "digital" comes with a DCC decoder. If you've been on DCCC website that might tell you. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, brossard said: DCC Concepts are very good at throwing a bewildering array of choices at you and I just get confused. My guess is the "digital" comes with a DCC decoder. If you've been on DCCC website that might tell you. John after reading a bit, we were correct, and the IP digital claims to be the best and most expenisve, right now the Classic Omega seems good for me, Pat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 OK, I also read the DCCC blurb. Looks like it is analogue and for DCC operation will require an additional stationary decoder. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, brossard said: OK, I also read the DCCC blurb. Looks like it is analogue and for DCC operation will require an additional stationary decoder. John ah i see i would likely be better off getting the pre-fitted ones being my first time and all pat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Seems that it would be easier, less setting up. How many are you looking at? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, brossard said: Seems that it would be easier, less setting up. How many are you looking at? John im not clear on that, the layout will expand over time, im definitely gonna buy only one at first just to see how i like it the wire up everything else lets assume around 10 or more pat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Good idea, if you like it then you can get more. If this is your first layout, I suggest you keep it small, maybe a shunting plank just a few feet long. This will give you the experience and knowledge to go bigger later. We all have dreams of making Euston or some such. Even a small layout takes an incredible amount of time and effort, not to mention money. My layout build is documented in the link below. It is 7mm but the principles aren't different. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 30, 2020 Author Share Posted June 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, brossard said: Good idea, if you like it then you can get more. If this is your first layout, I suggest you keep it small, maybe a shunting plank just a few feet long. This will give you the experience and knowledge to go bigger later. We all have dreams of making Euston or some such. Even a small layout takes an incredible amount of time and effort, not to mention money. My layout build is documented in the link below. It is 7mm but the principles aren't different. John thats a good idea as well, i had a baseboard was already built for me already, the room its in needs renovating so its not too late to make a small practice layout, a 2x6 foot depot should be pretty good practice :] Pat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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