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British Rail Mk1 Sleeper


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Got a couple of older Hornby Mk1 Sleeper coaches, they're in a pretty bad condition, so I am thinking of restoring them. Both of them have the B5 bogies, so I was wanting to know how many liveries did the Mk1 Sleeper coach carry when they had B5 bogies under them?

 

I am also led to believe that the Hornby Mk1 Sleeper coaches didn't come with interiors, does anyone have a diagram of the interior layout and images so that I can 3D print an interior for the two coaches I have?

 

Lastly, is there any glazing kits for the Mk1 Sleeper coaches from Hornby?

 

TIA

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South Eastern Finecast have the glazing kit. Ref SF29.

 

Others here will be better qualified than me for the other detailed prototype info. Robert Carroll in particular.

 

I think that some Mk1 sleepers received BR5 bogies before repaint to blue grey. So that would be three livery possibilities: Maroon, Blue/Grey, InterCity.

 

For modelling purposes, you presumably don't want that much detail on the interior. But, then again, if you can do it in 3D print why not? Include the beds, sink etc. The partitions were between each pair of windows that are close together on the compartment side. The bed therefore not intruding on the window. Compartments could be configured with one bed or two (bunks). I think that the sink (and cupboard for pot) were under the window.

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7 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

South Eastern Finecast have the glazing kit. Ref SF29.

 

Others here will be better qualified than me for the other detailed prototype info. Robert Carroll in particular.

 

I think that some Mk1 sleepers received BR5 bogies before repaint to blue grey. So that would be three livery possibilities: Maroon, Blue/Grey, InterCity.

 

For modelling purposes, you presumably don't want that much detail on the interior. But, then again, if you can do it in 3D print why not? Include the beds, sink etc. The partitions were between each pair of windows that are close together on the compartment side. The bed therefore not intruding on the window. Compartments could be configured with one bed or two (bunks). I think that the sink (and cupboard for pot) were under the window.


Thanks...

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The last production of the old Triang/Hornby Mk1's introduced a flush glazing piece that was at one time available as a spare part and fitted the earlier production.  I know the BSK, CK and RMB got these, not sure about the Sleeper though but may be worth investigating if the SEF Flush Glaze cannot be found (some have been discontinued and/or are becoming rather scarce).

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12 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

The last production of the old Triang/Hornby Mk1's introduced a flush glazing piece that was at one time available as a spare part and fitted the earlier production.  I know the BSK, CK and RMB got these, not sure about the Sleeper though but may be worth investigating if the SEF Flush Glaze cannot be found (some have been discontinued and/or are becoming rather scarce).


I've managed to get hold of some SE Finecast glazing

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Hornby sleeping cars never had interior detail.  The thinking perhaps being "Why?  It adds to cost and cannot be easily seen"  

 

They only ever carried maroon or blue/grey livery.  The Mk1 sleeper fleet was entirely replaced some years before IC livery appeared.  

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13 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

South Eastern Finecast have the glazing kit. Ref SF29.

 

Others here will be better qualified than me for the other detailed prototype info. Robert Carroll in particular.

 

I think that some Mk1 sleepers received BR5 bogies before repaint to blue grey. So that would be three livery possibilities: Maroon, Blue/Grey, InterCity.

 

For modelling purposes, you presumably don't want that much detail on the interior. But, then again, if you can do it in 3D print why not? Include the beds, sink etc. The partitions were between each pair of windows that are close together on the compartment side. The bed therefore not intruding on the window. Compartments could be configured with one bed or two (bunks). I think that the sink (and cupboard for pot) were under the window.

 

Almost, the compartment partitions were mid-way between each window.

 

All had the same body design. First class compartments had a single bed, Second class a twin bunk, both to the plain wall side of the compartment, top bunk frame roughly level with the bar of window vent and ladder in the middle. The sink was in the corner under the window, quadrant shaped and with a lid that looks like would double as a table. A large rectangular mirror was mid-way on the wall opposite the beds. The attendants compartment was the non-toilet end one.

Compartment windows had horizontally sliding shutters.

 

There's good pictures in the Parkin Mk1 book if you can access a copy.

 

3 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Hornby sleeping cars never had interior detail.  The thinking perhaps being "Why?  It adds to cost and cannot be easily seen"  

 

They only ever carried maroon or blue/grey livery.  The Mk1 sleeper fleet was entirely replaced some years before IC livery appeared.  

 

Agree it probably was a case of 'Why?' The most you would normally see of a sleeper interior would be either the corridor wall, or the window shutters, depending on which side.

 

Sounds right on liveries, they didn't first appear until after Crimson/Cream had ceased, and their Mk3 replacements appeared in Blue/Grey

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On 30/06/2020 at 06:38, Titan said:

Pretty sure all the Mk1 sleepers were withdrawn before intercity livery was introduced, so only the two liveries.


Mk1 sleepers were withdrawn in the early to mid 80’s in blue and grey.  As they contained Asbestos (I think), they had to be disposed of by the likes of Mayer Parry in Snailwell or Vic Berry in Leicester who were able to safely remove it.

 

They had all gone before the new InterCity livery was rolled out.

Edited by jools1959
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12 hours ago, John M Upton said:

There was one more livery, two were used for the Royal Train if I recall correctly.


Got any images of it? I don't mind painting up one to look like that. Got a Royal Class 67 it can be with.

EDIT: found an image of it, Bachmann apparently did a collector's club edition of it a few years ago.

Edited by MGR Hooper!
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36 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:


Got any images of it? I don't mind painting up one to look like that. Got a Royal Class 67 it can be with.

There was one Mk1 sleeper used in the Royal Train, but I think it was withdrawn before 67s entered service.  It was at Southall Railway Centre for many years but scrapped recently.

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8 hours ago, Northmoor said:

There was one Mk1 sleeper used in the Royal Train, but I think it was withdrawn before 67s entered service.  It was at Southall Railway Centre for many years but scrapped recently.

 

There were two royal Mk1 Sleepers 2908 (SLF 2013) Feb 1977 and 2909 (SLSTP 2500) March 1982. Both were withdrawn in Feb 1986 but seem to have been mostly superseded by 2914/15 (which originally going to be the last two Mk3a SLEs 10734/10735) by early 1985. 2908 was the one at Southall (cut 2012); 2909 (which is the last SLSTP) is in a dire condition at WCRC Carnforth/

Edited by Bomag
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I think you will find the last of the blue and grey Mk 1 sleepers were the 2 used on the Scottish internal service which were replaced by Mk3's at the end of summer 1984.

 

If you are interested in obscure liveries and want a challenge, how about the Mk1's that were used in the original version of the Royal Scotsman seen at Achasheen in 1988. Alternatively I believe that the current Scotsman has Mk1 sleepers in its consist if the 2018 picture below is anything to go by.

 

The Royal Scotsman

 

The Royal Scotsman

 

Edited by young37215
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One minor variation which is very easy to model, was the sleeper compo. On the blue/grey variant just run a yellow stripe along the guttering and a 1 on the corresponding door. Not really relevant from a model perspective but there was also an either first or second, the steward would just adjust the bedding contents etc as required . I can give numbers for b5 examples from a circa 1983 coaching stock book if you want.

At least one survived in blue/grey(SC2452 on CW bogies sleeper compo) as a dorm coach for the Jacobite crews in the first couple of seasons ('86 '87), there are pictures of the whole support train on the way upto Fort William on Flickr.

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Maroon SLCs also gained yellow lines above their first class compartments as did the SLFs during the 1960s  

 

Unlike the Mk3 cars the first class in Mk1 sleepers was a single fixed bunk not having the hinged upper one as Mk3 does for operation as either class.  

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3 hours ago, Peter Eaton said:

Hi.

Believe Bachmann collectors did the 00 Royal train sleeper

 

It was a Collectors Club special and was the standard Mk1 sleeper painted in Royal Train livery - so presumably not accurate as not based on the Mk1 Pullman.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

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