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Help Required Please - Hornby B12/3 cutting Out


Steve51769
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Has anyone else had a problem with their new version Hornby B12/3 cutting out? It will run for a short while then stall. If I leave it with no power for a few seconds and it will move again when power applied, the longer you leave it the longer it runs for. It's not the controller (H&M Duette) as a second loco on the same circuit continues to move even when the B12 has stalled. I've checked the tender feed, by swapping it for the one on my D16, the D16 runs okay with the B12 tender, and the B12 still stalls with the D16 tender. Is there a thermal cutout on the loco? This problem started in the hot weather last week so I did wonder if it’s heat releated, though the weather is cooler this week. Any suggestions/help gratefully received.      

 

Thanks

 

Steve

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Does suggest heat build up as a possible cause of the cut out, but I haven't recognised any component to cause thermal cut out on mine.

 

Might be heating on the motor leading to a motor bearing or a brush seizing, when it cools function is restored.

 

Worth contacting Hornby service with this question I feel. I don't recall much in the way of trouble reported on this model, now going to find the main thread.

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Does the motor ‘hum’ when it stalls? That would suggest something binding. If it doesn’t it seems more likely there is a pickup issue with the loco. I’d start with the basics though, clean the wheels, inspect the pickups and look for any damage to the very thin and delicate plug wires.

 

If it’s new though there remains the possibility of returning it to the dealer of course. 

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Thanks for the replies. It doesn’t hum when it stalls it’s dead. I saw the reference to the flywheel and wondered if that was the cause. As I mentioned I’ve tried swapping the tenders with the D16 (as current collection it through the tender not loco) and it makes no difference. All wheels are clean as new. I think I need to strip the loco down and check all connections with a multimeter. I was hoping that this was an easy fix.

 

regards

 

Steve

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Update - I’ve stripped it down. Plenty of room between can motor and flywheels. Tried disconnecting the capacitor but it makes no difference. Motor runs then stalls even when run out of frames. Since testing it out of the frames it’s got worse. Conclusion is that it’s the motor failing. So now on the lookout for new motor unit. Any ideas where I can get one from?

 

regards

 

Steve

 

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5 minutes ago, Steve51769 said:

Update - I’ve stripped it down. Plenty of room between can motor and flywheels. Tried disconnecting the capacitor but it makes no difference. Motor runs then stalls even when run out of frames. Since testing it out of the frames it’s got worse. Conclusion is that it’s the motor failing. So now on the lookout for new motor unit. Any ideas where I can get one from?

 

regards

 

Steve

 

Try soldering the motor to a separate power supply (ie totally independent of the B12). Optimist that I am I still think its a pick up issue - maybe I am lucky but I have yet to encounter a duff Hornby motor in 20 years collecting and far too many loco's bought :)

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OThank you Mike, You got me to investigate further. You are correct the motor runs fine when power is applied direct to it. This would point to a wiring fault. As the tender works fine with the D16 I will assume it’s the loom on the loco at fault. I’ve looked up the part on the Hornby service sheet (X6113) and checked Peters Spares site where sadly it is listed as out of stock. Any ideas if anyone else would stock/sell these? (Update found a source of equivalents on Ebay for £1 each).

 

At least it is a step forward.

 

regards

 

Steve

Edited by Steve51769
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I thought I'd add a postscript to this saga. Having ordered and fitted the new wiring loom for the loco it didn't fixed the issue. Using a multimeter I worked my way carefully through the wiring on the tender and discovered a dry joint in the PCB for the decoder. I resoldered the errant joint and tried the loco - in fifty years of modelling I've never seen flames from a loco as the joint on the opposing polarity decided that it too had had enough and started to burn. After extinguising the flame (fortunately no damage done) I resoldered that joint too and the loco now runs like new. To my mind Hornby need to beef up some of the wiring and soldering in these models as in this loco it was decidely poor. The loco could have caught fire in the normal course of running - not something that I would wish on anyone.      

 

Regards

 

Steve

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I had a similar issue with my B12, but didn't comment earlier as the posts suggested the fault was at the loco end. I also found the fault in the  DCC socket/blanking plug. With some power on the track I was testing  with a multi meter and suddenly the loco leapt forward. I suppose I could have  resoldered as you did, but as I don't do DCC, I bypassed the  socket/blank and rejoined the pairs of wires in the tender. Now it runs happily, I'm pleased to say, Though I still don't know exactly whether the fault was in the blank, socket or both, it matters not for me. Glad you have a happy running loco now.

 

Tod

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  • 2 years later...
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Reviving old threads seems to be a habit of mine. 

The old B12 was the first Hornby train I had as a kid. My dad had been out in Dubai working for two years and when he came home took me to Beaties. Naturally I ran it into the ground and was excited when the new one was announced. To be honest I found the price tag unbelievable and have never paid more for a train before or since. The other day I was struck with disbelief followed by anger when it kept failing.

So, it needs looking at and from experience my first suspicions were that it might be the DCC Socket interface.

 

Thanks for sharing your findings...

Regards Shaun.      

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15 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Why would you automatically assume it’s the DCC socket? Have you done the obvious things. Checked pickups, checked wires between tender and loco, cleaned wheels and track. 

I do still need to look into it!

The loco is almost brand new still for one thing. It will run really well and then just give up. 

 

One other point that makes a difference to some locos (such as Oxfords J27) is that I'm using Gaugemaster feedback controllers. There can sometimes be interference between both types of gadgetry!

I have found that swapping out the controller fixes these issues but removal of the DCC interface gear is still necessary if I want locos to behave on all my inclines!

The B12, a green one has run without problems on my other layout which has a regular DC controller.

 

A lot of the time, obtaining a good runner depends on the assembly line. I've worked on and run assembly lines, some people do good work, others sloppy and some excellent. The more detailed and complex the loco gets, the more workers there are involved and thus the more chance there is of problems.

As a devote analog guy I resent having to pay a higher price for the DCC interface blanking, something that only causes grief.

 

There's an old tender drive Sir Nigel Gresley on the work bench (dining table 🤭) at present, so when I'm done with that, I'll do The B12.  Incidentally, the A4 has developed a problem since I resprayed the wheels and reassembled the chassis. The sprung tender draw bar and pony mount need bypassing with a soldered hard wire from the brush retainer to the loco chassis block.

 

Regards Shaun.         

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  • 2 weeks later...

Idly flicking through Youtube I came across S*m's Tr**ns attack on one of the recent batch of B12/3s. I had just bought a third one about the same time and it got me worried. However it's been up and down my point-to-point showing no power loss on curves or points. Tomorrow I'll take it to the Railway Club for a long run on their test track just to be sure but it seems the same as  its 2 mates.

I do worry about the shortage of Hornby spares on Peter's website - not his fault, of course.

En passant, the original R150 version, fitted years ago with new wheels, centre driver flanges ground down to just kiss the  track, has been passed to my great-grandson who is young enough to be delighted with it - vive le X04!

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