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Hornby - Signal Box Announcement 1st July 2020

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

Anyone else surprised at that price?

 

Even allowing for a possible desire to undercut Rails? 

 

Not really given its no bigger than a plank wagon is it? Doesn't look particularly complex either.

 

The Rails one was dear because if how it would be made. And fair play to Rails for trying something like that too.

 

I don't think any desire to undercut would have come into it TBH.

Edited by TomScrut
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17 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Which it is a shame they feel they way TBH, but best to be clear on it given what has happened before. If they have a painted sample and Rails had CAD then it's obvious who was ahead of who in everything other than announcement really!

 

Do they have a painted sample? All the pictures on those links look like 3D renders to me. I can't find a picture of a painted sample.

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30 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

Almost every time I see a Hornby article showing, supposedly, how they measured up a real loco/coach/wagon I CRINGE when the photos show the awful way the levelling staff ("measuring stick") is held.  Almost every time it is not held vertical, or level, but at an angle (sometimes at quite a large angle) thus totally invalidating any measurement thus taken.

 

Please will Hornby teach their surveyors how to use the staff, and teach their photographer to snap the shot ONLY when the staff is properly aligned.

 

Try to be professional.

 

.

 

Ever thought that might be deliberate!

 

The measurements Hornby take on their visits are crucial to producing an accurate product and are part of Hornbys intellectual property - if they can be viewed by 3rd parties then said 3rd parties could use them to improve the accuracy of their offerings or to cut down on the amount of research needed and Hornby have no redress.

 

Deliberately make the pictures of the measuring process useless for accurate measuring and the problem goes away while at the same time putting out some nice pics for consumers.

 

Think of like 'map traps' where cartographers deliberately introduce small mistakes so they can spot rival manufacturers who have stolen their intellectual property

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32 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

I suspect the bit I've put in bold is the problem. The person holding up the stick may not even be the one who does the measurements.

 

Last year I came to work and found a nice poster up showing someone studiously making some measurements in a lab.

 

They were actually "measuring" something I was responsible for, but the person photographed had nothing to do with the project and as for what they were actually supposed to be doing...?

 

 

 

Anyone remember the Railtrack Station Regeneration Programme ? The site hoardings usually included a massive blow up of some hard-hatted RT bod checking a spirit level. It wasn't even nearly level, which explains some of the output from the SRP.

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Just now, RBE said:

 

Do they have a painted sample? All the pictures on those links look like 3D renders to me. I can't find a picture of a painted sample.

 

You may be right, I thought it didn't look perfect enough for a CAD render TBH but looking again it might be.

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Does anybody know exactly what this "social media takeover" is? In terms of how long it is going on for and when we may see something else if there is something else?

 

You'd think they'd get more hype etc. by giving more information out rather than dripfeeding.

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I've looked again on the big screen rather than my phone and I'm not 100% sure on whether its a CAD render or not tbh at this point. There are things on it that make me think it is then some things that make me doubt a little. They do pretty good renders to be fair.

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Just now, RBE said:

I've looked again on the big screen rather than my phone and I'm not 100% sure on whether its a CAD render or not tbh at this point. There are things on it that make me think it is then some things that make me doubt a little. They do pretty good renders to be fair.

Not specifically talking about this example, but I think renders are now so good they could do with labelling as renders or 'real' images as appropriate. The Hornby Terrier renders are another example.

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Yes agreed, We are now at a point where we can do photoreal renders which is great to see what the final model will look like but does fool a lot of people into thinking painted EP samples are ready when in reality they are not.

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17 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Ever thought that might be deliberate!

 

Never.......if they were that worried about IP in a photo like that as a photographer I’d just tell them to lift the staff a bit clear of the ground or rest it in a small stone/rock/block........or take it from an angle that looks correct but couldn’t be used to read the measurement......no.....it’s just sloppy.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Not really given its no bigger than a plank wagon is it? Doesn't look particularly complex either.

 

The Rails one was dear because if how it would be made. And fair play to Rails for trying something like that too.

 

I don't think any desire to undercut would have come into it TBH.

 

I appreciate that the Rails one will cost more to manufacture because it's 3-d printed.

 

But £16 is a lot less than I'd have expected for an unusual limited edition like this, never mind one which "features etched brass components and separately fitted parts". Manufacturing costs will be less than Rails due to the different manufacturing technique, but that doesn't necessarily help with design costs, though of course they will be shared with the 1st class coaches to some extent.

 

And just because something is cheap to manufacture doesn't mean it has to be sold at a low price if people will pay more.

 

I also don't think it's particularly cynical to suggest a company might look at competitor's prices before setting their own (like "Railroad" 66's that mysteriously come in non Railroad boxes...)

 

(Edited for clarity)

 

Edited by Coryton
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24 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

Does anybody know exactly what this "social media takeover" is? In terms of how long it is going on for and when we may see something else if there is something else?

 

You'd think they'd get more hype etc. by giving more information out rather than dripfeeding.

Trying to break the internet (not hard these days with everyone at home!!)

 

It will be a pic of a scantily clad Simon K opening a bottle of Champagne.

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Looking closely at the images In the engine shed blog, I think it is an actual prototype but main body colour maybe slightly glossy which does make it look like its a render. In one of the pictures where you can see the interior, you can see the hole where the door handle is fitted into. 

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30 minutes ago, RBE said:

Yes agreed, We are now at a point where we can do photoreal renders which is great to see what the final model will look like but does fool a lot of people into thinking painted EP samples are ready when in reality they are not.

Not to mention the crashing disappointment when the painted livery doesn't match up to 'the artist's impression'! ;)

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14 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

It will be a pic of a scantily clad Simon K opening a bottle of Champagne.

Ewwwwwwww :bo_mini:

 

Thank you for that mental image that I now cannot unthink! :mad_mini:

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24 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

I appreciate ......

 

....Railroad boxes...)

 

No I wasn't suggesting that they didn't consider what Rails were up to, and I definitely agree it isn't too cynical to think like that. I just think if they are making 1000 of these that they will want to sell them all, and so I think it's unlikely they would be anywhere near the Rails one and therefore if they knocked something off it would be for the sake of it rather than competition.

 

And given they knew Rails weren't committing to tooling they would also have a pretty good idea it wouldn't be happening, so why drop the price to compete with something that you think won't be happening?

 

Whilst it does have some brass fittings etc it's has no interior, has no bogies, looks like it's on an existing chassis (according to a post near the start) so whilst I do think it's a good price it's not like they are giving them away IMO.

 

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3 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

No I wasn't suggesting that they didn't consider what Rails were up to, and I definitely agree it isn't too cynical to think like that. I just think if they are making 1000 of these that they will want to sell them all, and so I think it's unlikely they would be anywhere near the Rails one and therefore if they knocked something off it would be for the sake of it rather than competition.

 

And given they knew Rails weren't committing to tooling they would also have a pretty good idea it wouldn't be happening, so why drop the price to compete with something that you think won't be happening?

 

Whilst it does have some brass fittings etc it's has no interior, has no bogies, looks like it's on an existing chassis (according to a post near the start) so whilst I do think it's a good price it's not like they are giving them away IMO.

 

 

Exactly !   Hornby will be making money on those . Its just a different manufacturing method . It does kind of hint at more to come . Given the success of Rocket I wonder if Lion will be next . Certainly seemed to be a lot of people asking for it in Jennys Monday Club . And , of course , there is the tie in with the Titfield Thunderbolt.

 

I feel sorry for Rails . They had a great idea  , but unfortunately Hornby are ahead of them . They have handled it very well though and I hope they can go onto develop their 3D printing in another way .  As other have pointed out , could they announce a range of Mk4 coaches..............................

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Posted (edited)

Can anyone clear up the confusion I see?

The 2nd/3rd class name I can follow, but it seems that 3rd class in the Hornby model means standing room only ? (Maybe it should be offered in Cross-Country livery, now there's a thought!). Didn't the Rails ones have benches, can anyone confirm? Am I right in thinking one or more of the replicas (the real ones) have benches?

 

Stewart

Edited by stewartingram

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Just now, stewartingram said:

Can anyone clear up the confusion I see?

The 2nd/3rd class name I can follow, but it seems that 2nd class in the Hornby model means standing room only ? Maybe it should be offered in Cross-Country livery, now there's a thought!). Didn't the Rails ones have benches? Am I right in thinking one or more of the replicas (the real ones) have benches?

 

Stewart

The 2nd class coaches had benches and 3rd was standing room only apparently. So that is the only difference between the 2 from what I've read in other threads. 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Looking closely at the images In the engine shed blog, I think it is an actual prototype but main body colour maybe slightly glossy which does make it look like its a render. In one of the pictures where you can see the interior, you can see the hole where the door handle is fitted into. 

 

The presence of a hole that the handle fits into is no evidence of a sample as the CAD model will also have the hole.

 

I am however convinced at this stage that it is a sample due to other things that I've spotted.

Edited by RBE

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The main picture shown on the Hornby Pre-order page here:

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/l-mr-open-third-class-carriage-era-1.html

 

This is also shown on the 'Engine shed' after the following paragraph

 

'The arrival of the engineering samples is always a watershed moment in a project, representing the point that a model leaves the ‘drawing board’ and takes on a physical, tactile form and even though the development team were prepared for the moment, the diminutive size of the models still surprised everyone.'

 

This does indicate it is a physical model, not a computer generated image

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Folks, from the horse's mouth - they're samples, not renders.

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1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Ever thought that might be deliberate! .......

 

 

.

 

Errrrr ......   No !

 

It is something that ANYONE who knows about surveying will laugh out loud at immediately, much like trying to brush a floor by holding a broom by its brush.  It is a joke.

 

.

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2 hours ago, phil gollin said:

.

 

Almost every time I see a Hornby article showing, supposedly, how they measured up a real loco/coach/wagon I CRINGE when the photos show the awful way the levelling staff ("measuring stick") is held.  Almost every time it is not held vertical, or level, but at an angle (sometimes at quite a large angle) thus totally invalidating any measurement thus taken.

 

Please will Hornby teach their surveyors how to use the staff, and teach their photographer to snap the shot ONLY when the staff is properly aligned.

 

Try to be professional.

 

.

 

I an unsure as to why they are using a surveyors levelling staff in the first place. Outside of high tech 3D laser scanning a simple tape measure would be more accurate.   It’s not the right tool and I suspect Hornby knew that and were just using it for dramatic effect.

 

The last  time I used a levelling staff was in 1987 on a road and bridge construction site on Foulness Island.  At University we were told to sway the staff slowly backwards and forwards so that the person using the level could ascertain through the sight the true “vertical” reading as the lower bound value.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

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