Cost to 3D print a 4mm Mk1 coach

[SteveyDee68]

Hi

 

I am wondering how much it would approximately cost (in terms of raw materials) to 3D print a 4mm scale model of a coach - floor, sides, ends and roof - similar to a Mk1 coach?  The print would need to be as smooth as possible, with minimum detail (e.g. a couple of doors per side, mounting points for bogies in the floor).  All other details - cable connectors, under frame details, roof vent, bogies etc - are to be separately printed or available commercially elsewhere.  A "blank canvas" vehicle, if you will...

 

Appreciate that any suggestions will be approximate depending upon material chosen.  This is to aid a complete novice - me! - to work out if this is a route worth pursuing for an ongoing project.

 

Many thanks in advance for any help, information or advice given.

 

Steve S

[Phil Parker]

Look at the prices for Rails 3D printed box vans as a guide. The printing they use is as good as it gets at the moment.

[rdr]

first off there are several methods of 3D printing, FDM, SLA, DLP, ect. All have different results and in the hobby level considerably different costs. FDM is probably the oldest system where a line of plastic is extruded and placed onto a bed in specific places to make the product. It is inherantly slow and leaves a visible array of lines that will need considerable work to be smooth. SLA is probably just as slow as FDM, as a laser is fired into a medium and a spot is cured each time eventually making a product. DLP is usually the faster 3D printing process as it exposes a layer of resin the size of the screen in one go. FDM machines are relatively cheap, SLA machines tend to be costly, and DLP is a bit more expensive than FDM increasing in price with screen size.

Raw material costs are very low but in each method of printing there is a certain amount of post printing work to be done. It is time consuming to 3D print, and on a commercial basis not very efficient.

To print a coach you may need a fairly large printer and for a good finish i would recommend the DLP resin printer.  There are DLP printers with 10" screens that would probably be big enough to print a MK1 coach in 4mm scale, but beware you need a good understanding of CAD programs to draw the part originally.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited July 1, 2020 by rdr

[MGR Hooper!]

35 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Hi

 

I am wondering how much it would approximately cost (in terms of raw materials) to 3D print a 4mm scale model of a coach - floor, sides, ends and roof - similar to a Mk1 coach?  The print would need to be as smooth as possible, with minimum detail (e.g. a couple of doors per side, mounting points for bogies in the floor).  All other details - cable connectors, under frame details, roof vent, bogies etc - are to be separately printed or available commercially elsewhere.  A "blank canvas" vehicle, if you will...

 

Appreciate that any suggestions will be approximate depending upon material chosen.  This is to aid a complete novice - me! - to work out if this is a route worth pursuing for an ongoing project.

 

Many thanks in advance for any help, information or advice given.

 

Steve S

From experience, a OO scale Mk1 coach is about the size of any other HO scale coach that measures 21m long. A highly detailed 3D print of such a size with an interior and so on should be around $40 from our supplier in China.

 

These individual coaches cost approximately $50-60 to 3D print based on the volume, the have interiors and so on. We designed these and had them 3D printed by our supplier in China. CAD images added to give you an idea as well.

PS: The coaches have been assembled and painted by the client, we only did the design work and then arranged for the 3D printing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SteveyDee68]

Thank you for all the replies. Obviously this is an area that requires serious study to even begin to understand the process/methods/techniques/materials/hardware/software involved, but having a heads-up (so to speak) is a starting point.

 

MGR Hooper! (Hayley Anne?) has in the previous post provided CAD drawings of a coach project and from those might I ask one more question?

 

Rather than model the entire coach body as a single shell, is it (a) quicker (b) easier and/or (c) cheaper to instead print separate parts ie 2 x sides, 2 x ends, 1 x floor and 1 x roof - like a set of parts for a kit - to be put together post printing?

 

Regards

 

Steve S

Edited July 1, 2020 by SteveyDee68
Typos!

[MGR Hooper!]

2 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Thank you for all the replies. Obviously this is an area that requires serious study to even begin to understand the process/methods/techniques/materials/hardware/software involved, but having a heads-up (so to speak) is a starting point.

 

MGR Hooper! (Hayley Anne?) has in the previous post provided CAD drawings of a coach project and from those might I ask one more question?

 

Rather than model the entire coach body as a single shell, is it (a) quicker (b) easier and/or (c) cheaper to instead print separate parts ie 2 x sides, 2 x ends, 1 x floor and 1 x roof - like a set of parts for a kit - to be put together post printing?

 

Regards

 

Steve S

The supplier I use in China (no connection and no benefits, just the usual satisfied customer) uses a resin based material. The models I design to have 3D printed by him have a minimum wall thickness of 1mm and all embossed/engraved detail is 0.5mm. The quality of the 3D print IMHO is second to none, I can share more images if you'd like to see?

As for single piece body or number of parts etc, it depends on who you get your 3D printing done from. If you're using a source like Shapeways who factor in machine space, then a kit would make sense. However the supplier I use in China only factors in the amount of resin used, so whether it's a whole shell or just sections, you'll have the same price. The supplier I use also have a minimum order price of $15 and they give their quotes in increments of $5 so its 15, 20, 25, 30 etc.

Personally, we've tried both methods i.e. kits vs. full bodies and I must say the full body approach is far better. Images below. Once again, kits we designed for the same client mentioned above.

 

The kit type one was done by Shapeways and ended up costing about $70 a pop, which is extremely expensive, images below:-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MGR Hooper!]

Forgot about the uploading file size limit...

 

Here's images of the 3D printed coaches with the body and chassis being individual pieces...

 

 

And just one more image of the kit build one below to offer as a comparison... note the slightly warped body side where it meets the coach ends.
 

 

I don't know if it's visible from the pics, but there's very obvious lines in the kit build ones, you will have a lot more post processing work to do. You will need to add filler and do quite a lot of sanding. If you do indeed choose the kit method, my suggestion would be to design the edges of the body, coach ends and roof at a 45 degree angle, Firstly it'll give you a larger surface area to glue and secondly it'll give you a less noticeable line dividing 2 or more parts.

 

HTH? Feel free to ask if you have any more questions. I'll answer to the best of my ability.

 

Cheers

[SteveyDee68]

7 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

 

HTH? Feel free to ask if you have any more questions. I'll answer to the best of my ability.

 

Cheers

 

Once again, thank you for the response and the pictures - especially the one of the 'warped' coach side, as a picture really is worth a thousand words!

 

It would appear from your experience that a whole body approach is best, and your costings from an external supplier give a good idea about "commercial" printing.  What I also wondered about was which was the easier route for home printing using the kind of 'hobbyist' 3D printers which modellers buy?  From the little I have picked up so far, a whole coach body would be beyond most printers - I'm not even sure if they can handle a whole coach side unless one of the larger and more expensive machines?!  

 

As to what type of material gives the best finish? I'm guessing there is a world of difference between a home 3D printer and a commercial one!

 

Many thanks

 

Steve S

[MGR Hooper!]

2 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Once again, thank you for the response and the pictures - especially the one of the 'warped' coach side, as a picture really is worth a thousand words!

 

It would appear from your experience that a whole body approach is best, and your costings from an external supplier give a good idea about "commercial" printing.  What I also wondered about was which was the easier route for home printing using the kind of 'hobbyist' 3D printers which modellers buy?  From the little I have picked up so far, a whole coach body would be beyond most printers - I'm not even sure if they can handle a whole coach side unless one of the larger and more expensive machines?!  

 

As to what type of material gives the best finish? I'm guessing there is a world of difference between a home 3D printer and a commercial one!

 

Many thanks

 

Steve S

Desktop 3D printers are certainly a no-go as of now.... Industrial sized ones are far better.

[MGR Hooper!]

1 hour ago, Lantavian said:

 

Where do you get models of women in saris, please?

That was hand-crafted...

[Pete the Elaner]

If you are thinking of trying 3d printing in order to produce some coaches, then I expect you will be overwhelmed & disappointed with how difficult something like that is.

 

I started a few months ago because I wanted window frames which I found very difficult to get consistent by making them from styrene. What I wanted was different to anything available commercially.

The first windows took me hours to design because I was also learning how to use the software and that was only straight lines & right angles. I have got that down to about 5-10 minutes.

I have also designed a few other things like detail parts but the subtle curves of coach sides make it something I would not consider.

It is not a cheap solution but good for making bespoke items, especially when you need several identical ones.

[Steven B]

@SteveyDee68 what do you have planned? If you want something that's roughly Mk1 shaped to detail then rather 3d print a body shell, why not just start with an old Hornby or Triang coach? You could buy several for the price of one 3d printed body shell.

 

Steven B

[Steven B]

The body shells of the Mk1 SO and SK are the same. Likewise the most common types of FO and FK. The main difference is in the location and number of roof vents.

 

Rework the roof and build a new interior and you'll have a SO.

 

Mk1 BSO were less common than BSKs, had an extra window and smaller parcels area but could still be made from a couple of coaches with some effort.

 

Steven B.

[MJI]

I find that 2 Triang BSKs can produce a TSO and a BG.

 

CUt and shut modelling

[Arun Sharma]

Have you considered a modified Ian Kirk-style coach?

 

Since Mk1 coaches consist of modular sections based around a passenger door, double guard's doors and basically two types of windows, why not just 3D  print these bits and the duplicate them in resin. Then whatever type of coach you want [with a few exceptions such as some restaurant cars/sleeping cars/bullion coaches] can be assembled from the relevant bits onto whatever length underframe you want.

[Enterprisingwestern]

6 hours ago, Arun Sharma said:

Have you considered a modified Ian Kirk-style coach?

 

Since Mk1 coaches consist of modular sections based around a passenger door, double guard's doors and basically two types of windows, why not just 3D  print these bits and the duplicate them in resin. Then whatever type of coach you want [with a few exceptions such as some restaurant cars/sleeping cars/bullion coaches] can be assembled from the relevant bits onto whatever length underframe you want.

 

Then again, as already mentioned, with the number of cheap, sub £5, rtr coaches available, cut and shut makes more sense?

 

Mike.

[njee20]

Bit of an old discussion i realise... but there are a raft of home printers coming to the market in the next 3-4 months which will handle a mk1 coach body. The Anycubic Mono X and Elegoo Saturn, with the bigger still Elegoo Jupiter being hinted at. 
 

The finish i get out of my home printers far surpasses anything ive had from Shapeways; don’t assume commercial is inherently better. That said, size certainly remains the limitation. Hayley’s prints look good too. 
 

I think you may need to re-think the point of 3D printing. It’s no easier to print a plain body shell than it is to make one with every single rivet meticulously drawn. Equally turning them into a kit is pointless. The entire advantage is that you can (space allowing) print the whole thing in one go.