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If it is relevant at all, pubs, clubs & restaurants can open with certain guidelines on July 4th, but sports clubs may not.

This includes snooker clubs, which in the context of distancing are not very different from model railways clubs.

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The advice I have read is we can't open a Club at the moment. Problems with how many people can meet and where is one thing.. even with a minimum 1m social distance allowed on occasions routes in/out/toilets/etc  are a problem in most places. 

 

Our Landlord is not keen on cleaning communal stairways and doors so that is something to factor in.. Even afer the 4th July.. don't even contemplate having a club room open. Unless a single person canattend .. but then you need to worry about "Lone workers".

Baz

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The other one I have been seeing on work related social media is some local councils had written to shops to be aware of the potential for legionaries in water systems that had unexpectedly been unused for a number of months. 
 

Advice from different councils has apparently ranged from simply running them for 10-15 minutes and putting a cap full of bleach into toilet cisterns to full on you should get them tested....

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The current advice is still for a group to be a maximum of 6 people. Official walking and cycling groups are sticking to this as to exceed it would breach the insurance conditions.

Indoors it would seem to be even more restrictive. My local church hall will remain closed until September. Several local halls are taking bookings subject to restrictions while others cannot comply, or consider the extra work involved just to bring in a few quid not to be worth bothering about.

I reckon it will be a long while before things are back to normal.

Bernard

 

 

 

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Most of what I see on social media (including here) seems to be about what we are allowed to do, not what should really be for the best. Has anyone checked the UK figures lately?

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

The steady drop in Infection rates had stalled a couple of weeks ago, but this now seems to have recovered & is falling very slowly again.

The death rate is slightly behind this. Over the last 7 days, 3 had been higher than the same day the previous week.

Restrictions for businesses such as restaurants, pubs & shops reflect that these provide employment which does not apply to a social event or club such as a model railway club.

 

With these figures in mind, is it really such a good idea to be getting back?

I miss being able to see my friends & working on the club project together. Getting back together sooner rather than later will prolong the time it takes before many places are open properly again.

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There’s a parallel with how we work when building a model, a layout or any DIY;  rush into the job too quickly and you usually have to go back and do it again. Much as we’re all desperate to do all those things we enjoy, gradual is sensible in these circunstances. As a naturally cautious man I’m fine with that.

 

Davy.

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From my own MRCs  perspective we could run the Friday night meetings , as may be 10 people scattered down a 40 ft by 15ft room would not be a problem, no tea bar stop round the table for a chat of course... Tuesday night meetings. too many people so you'd have to have meetings every evening to spread people out.

 

My wifes Weaving group have solved their meetings by having them outside, six people per day, book in advance, only one allowed in the building at a time to use the facilities.. unfortunately not do-able with the model railways..

 

My sailing club is still waiting for official guidance, personnally I think with the 1metre + we could run racing, but no social events, no extra bods hanging around. Even as different house bubbles, in a 12 ft long cockpit of an open sailing boat (the majority of the club except for single handed dinghies) you could race together.. The problem, the rescue Boats in the rare case of having to fish someone out of the river..

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51 minutes ago, Mad McCann said:

There’s a parallel with how we work when building a model, a layout or any DIY;  rush into the job too quickly and you usually have to go back and do it again. Much as we’re all desperate to do all those things we enjoy, gradual is sensible in these circunstances. As a naturally cautious man I’m fine with that.

 

Davy.

Yes. As a vulnerable person with an extremely vulnerable wife, we are keeping ourselves to ourselves. My photo club has decided to not even try to reopen until 2021, so many of us are old and are carrying several conditions not conducive to catching 'the bug'. 

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I think there is need to differentiate between reopening the club rooms in a limited way and returning to what was 'normal'.

 

As the secretary of my local model railway club, this is a topic under consideration at the moment.  In the past, we met two evenings per week and the number of attendees any club night would range from barely half a dozen to at least a dozen members.  For the Annual General Meeting, we'd have upwards of twenty attendees.  Returning to opening the club as was normal in the past is not something that we can consider in the near future - I suspect that we might be looking at 2022 - because social distancing requirements means that we simply cannot accommodate these numbers in our club room.

 

However, in Scotland at least, the Government are proposing to allow individuals to meet up indoors with members from up to two other households, with effect from 10th July.  That therefore presents us with the opportunity to allow three members to meet at the club room.  This would have to be managed by grouping those who are keen to return to 'normal' into 'bubbles' of three, who could then be allocated a specific time slot to attend.  At the moment, I've simply asked the membership to think about whether this is of interest.  Small groups reduces the potential risk of transmission, but similarly reduces the social enjoyment.

 

The problem is within all clubs there will be a range of opinions ranging from a desire to return to normal as quickly as possible to those who will be reluctant to set foot in the club room until a vaccine is found.  However, just because some members will not want to attend doesn't necessarily mean that some can't.  We just need to find the most workable solution moving forward.

 

However, for the moment at least, our club room remains closed.

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Posted (edited)

The extract from the government FAQ website about what can and can’t be done in England after 4 July that I reproduce below seems to hinge around The place being ‘Covid-19 Secure’, the same language used about a workplace, which may be quite difficult to achieve in practice.
 

The HSE guidance for workplaces is here https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/working-safely/covid-secure.htm but I would be willing to bet that it will soon include something about fresh-air ventilation, which seems not to be there now.


 

1.19 Can I attend an activity club or support group?

Yes, you can. Premises such as activity clubs, community centres and youth clubs can reopen, and will need to follow COVID-19 Secure guidelines. You should only attend these in groups of up to two households (your support bubble counts as one household). We recognise that you may know other people in these venues but you should try to limit your social interaction to your own household or one other, to help to control the virus.

 

Personally, I don’t find this crystal clear, but what I think it is saying is that, up to the broader limit of 30 that is set out elsewhere in the FAQs, any number of people can attend an ‘activity club’, but that the whole place must operate in a Covid Secure way, which means 2m or barriers between people, except that it is permissible to get closer, down to 1m, with people from one other household.

 

Do others read it that way?

 

Of course, what we are allowed or guided to do, and what we feel comfortable doing aren’t always the same thing.

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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 we are looking at reopening  and i was wondering if any clubs are reopened and what procedures they have put in place ?

 

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The problem is that people from no more than two households are allowed to meet indoors.

 

Geoff Endacott

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I don’t believe that has been the case for ‘activity clubs’ since 4 July. See my previous.

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9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I don’t believe that has been the case for ‘activity clubs’ since 4 July. See my previous.

Nope it is still in place.  Reading the info on cricket clubs it is different advice. Once gyms open it will change again.

 

Currently major concerns are cleaning and the number of people who can fit safely in your clubroom. Biggest one for our club is gaining access/egress via communal stairs and doorways

 

Baz

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Posted (edited)

Hmmm ....... what do you believe item 1.19 on this government website means then?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do#gatherings-public-spaces-and-activities

 

My interpretation of it is as I said before:

 

- that a model railway club is an “activity club”;

 

- that provided the place operates in a Covid Safe manner (Likely to mean 2m distancing, barriers, face coverings and a host of other precautions), any number of people can be present (“Businesses and venues following COVID-19 Secure guidelines can host larger groups provided they comply with the law”);


As I said before, the guidance seems less than crystal-clear to me, but I’ve read it multiple times, and I honestly believe that is what it is saying.

 

Sports clubs are a bit different, I think, because of questions of changing rooms etc.

 

In a practical sense, I agree that achieving Covid Secure on entry ways, corridors, stairs, toilets etc could be a real challenge, unless the place is hugely spacious.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nearholmer

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Posted (edited)

The two people rule still applies. The 30 people room is outdoors. When you read the rubbish on the Government website about being covid safe (which is also as clear as mud) you need to have cleaning and social distancing in place. 

When did any club tidy up or clean their clubrooms?

How mant people can visit the clubroom maintaing a social distance?

How do you safely enter/exit the clubroom (easier to do if you have only your clubroom in a building)

How do enforce toilet access and cleaning?

Who books you in?

Checks you bring your own refreshments?

Checks that you clean all work surfaces, doors etc before you start?

Who sets out when you can visit? B(earing in mind the numbers are limited)

 

It really isn't simple. The Government has, like everything else, put the onus on the volunteers who act as Club Committees and Trustees.

 

Cricket (and shortly soccer) clubs have added needs. Changing facilities are not allowed. Again though the onus is on achieving "Covid 19 levels of safety"

 

I don't agree with your interpretation and at least one other large club I know doesn't either.

It won't be this week that you can go to an "old" normal club night. Perhaps next year when people also feel safe to attend and we finally get a real grip on the pandemic we my see more changes.

 

Baz

 

Edited by Barry O
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I must confess none of this makes any sense regarding the government's guidelines. Our clubroom is based on a first floor gallery of an 18th century church off the Walworth Road in London. The government have now opened churches again as long as they social distance and do no sing?!  Yet we at our model railway club are not allowed to enter our clubroom due to the government's rules, yet we only have six active members in our club at any time and can easily social distance!

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3 hours ago, Spam Can Man said:

Yet we at our model railway club are not allowed to enter our clubroom due to the government's rules,


Are you sure?

 

I seem to be in a minority of one, but that’s not what I read the following, copied direct from the current “government rules” applicable to England to say:

 

“1.19 Can I attend an activity club or support group?

Yes, you can. Premises such as activity clubs, community centres and youth clubs can reopen, and should follow COVID-19 Secure guidelines. It is important to maintain social distancing and good hand hygiene in these circumstances. You should continue to limit your interactions with those you don’t live with outside of these formal activities to help control the virus.”
 

Of course, it may be that the issue is that nobody can devise a way of complying with Covid Secure guidelines for the premises in question, but if that is the case, then I can’t imagine anyone wanting to to attend it.

 

Kevin

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That's the problem. In theory clubs could make a lot of adaptations to comply with Covid-19 guidelines. In practice it's just too much hassle.

 

Geoff Endacott

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25 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:


Are you sure?

 

I seem to be in a minority of one, but that’s not what I read the following, copied direct from the current “government rules” applicable to England to say:

 

“1.19 Can I attend an activity club or support group?

Yes, you can. Premises such as activity clubs, community centres and youth clubs can reopen, and should follow COVID-19 Secure guidelines. It is important to maintain social distancing and good hand hygiene in these circumstances. You should continue to limit your interactions with those you don’t live with outside of these formal activities to help control the virus.”
 

Of course, it may be that the issue is that nobody can devise a way of complying with Covid Secure guidelines for the premises in question, but if that is the case, then I can’t imagine anyone wanting to to attend it.

 

Kevin

Big problem is it may say that in one bit but eleswhere it is till saying only 2 people at a time. indoors. Currently we can play cricket but the guidance for the cricket changing rooms are.. keep them shut. Toilets are something else and the Umpires and Scorers have no help at all!

 

As the government are being very quick to put the onus on anyone but them to do anything of use Clubs need to follow a worst case scenario. 

 

Baz

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Posted (edited)

“In practice its too much hassle”.

 

Now that I can fully understand, and when combined with a natural reticence On the part of members about going into indoor or spaces with other people It could well mean that most clubrooms don’t reopen for a long while yet.

Edited by Nearholmer

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13 hours ago, Barry O said:

 

Nope it is still in place.  Reading the info on cricket clubs it is different advice. Once gyms open it will change again.

 


Easy, isn’t it?

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We've restarted Thursday Club nights at Keen House, after undertaking a risk assessment and setting limits for the maximum number of people in Keen House overall, and in each part of the building. To help, we're using Doodle to enable members to "book" - so they know they will be allowed in before travelling. It also gives us a handy record for T&T should it be needed. 

We've got a polycarbonate screen around the bar, and sanitiser and wipes readily available.

Next stage is to follow the same process for our layout groups, and other groups who use our building. 

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