The Night Mail

[bbishop]

Tomorrow is another "read only" day.  So keep the chat going, guys.  Bill

[Happy Hippo]

As per Bill's request, I'm going to try and get the chat started:  I have to sit here for a time as the gas man has arrived to carry out the annual service of the boiler and the fire in the sitting room.

 

Of course the irony of this is that having done a lot of work with boilers and gas jets, I am probably better at the servicing that he is.  However, I lack the paper qualification.  This really grates, when for instance, I have to show them where the flues exit the house.  Which only goes to prove the old saying that time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted. 

 

Still if nothing else, that has warmed up my fingers.................

 

I know that some of the followers of TNM are members of the Gauge 0 Guild, and I'm sure they have been following this thread in MM&M with interest:

 

'Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild'

 

As I read through it, I came across a posting by SteveyDee68.

 

I did not reply,  because I needed time to cool down, as what I read was quite appalling.

 

I know Steve follows TNM so will no doubt pick up on what I have to say.

 

The treatment that his father and he received from that group of modellers was awful, and is exactly the attitude I have found in some elements of the G0G.  and yet these same people cannot understand why the Guild is seen by some as the preserve of the rich, aloof and condescending.

 

I saw it in some elements of G1MRA many years ago, so perhaps it is the larger scales that suffer from this superior and holier than thou attitude?

 

The gas man has gone, so more later, but has anyone else encountered the same clique mentality as Steve?

 

Not just in 0 Gauge, but in other areas of railway modelling?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

Following on from my comment about the clique mentality, reminds me that some modellers can be just too set in their ways to change.

 

Some years back I was a member of the railway group in Telford.  I joined because I wanted to be inspired:  I wanted to see other peoples efforts and improve my own modelling skills. To be blunt, I needed a kick up the backside to get modelling in the smaller scales as I was in full time procrastination mode.

 

Sadly, it was a disappointing experience, as I encountered a club that seemed to be frequented mainly by those happy to lay down set track, and the height of kit building seemed to be anything from the Superquick range.  So instead of getting my enthusiasm buoyed up, I realised the only way I was going to make progress was to try and lift the standards.  There were a few in the group that felt the same as I did, so we set about trying to improve the modelling.

 

We arranged some demonstrations about modelling techniques, and even ran a baseboard building seminar, where we used ply and proper pattern makers dowels for alignment.  We needn't have bothered, for despite out efforts, the next set of boards got made out of 2 x 1 and chipboard; alignment being by the same bolts (M6) they used to connect the baseboards together with.

 

The airbrushing demo we arranged, was a waste of time.  Some sat politely through it, but others just got on with the N gauge layout, chatting, sawing and hammering over the guest demonstrator efforts to show us basic techniques.

 

The straw that broke the camel's back was being asked to make a profile board to match the front of an exhibition layout.  I suggested a deeper frontage, but they wanted one which followed the ground profile.  This I made, and they they proceeded to bring the scenery profile on the boards above the carefully routed boards which they'd insisted on.

 

So I left.

 

I took with me, a few others and we formed our own group, and until lock down, had been meeting at least once a week and doing quite a bit of modelling.  we have taken on a couple of apprentices, who have found the transition to higher fidelity modelling  quite a challenge, but they admit thatt hey get far more out of what they are doing with us than 'down at the club'.

 

However, I have since joined a railway modelling club that does fit the bill.

 

More later.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Happy Hippo
spelling

[Doncaster Green]

3 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

but has anyone else encountered the same clique mentality as Steve?

 

Not just in 0 Gauge, but in other areas of railway modelling?

 

 

I have to admit that I have, but not so much a 'clique' mentality but a 'superiority' one.   Before I explain let me set the context.   I am very much a lone actor when it comes to modelling as, for various domestic reasons, it is not feasible for me to be part of a regular group and as such, apart from a couple of notable exceptions, I am not 'known' as a proponent of the art.   So, I beaver away in my own little world in my chosen scale, improving my skills through trial and error and progressing to a point  where I consider myself to be a semi-competent bodger who can turn out something halfway decent.   I am a member of two Scale/Gauge societies but not enough to get involved in the politics!   Up until a few years ago my local model shop ran a very convivial evening session once a fortnight where everyone, no matter how skilled or otherwise, was welcome and a couple of lasting friendships were forged there.   

Unfortunately the shop is no more and my public involvement in the hobby has become limited to visiting about half a dozen exhibitions a year and the odd foray on RMWeb.   As these are, for the most part, local to me I do see and chat with a few that I know but for most of the exhibitors I am a punter of unknown provenance and, as I have not been observed chatting with the great and the good, tend to be viewed as a casual visitor and treated as such.   On a number of occasions I have attempted to ask a question of an exhibitor only to be blatantly ignored because their mate has come bumbling up!   This is not only rude, it risks alienating someone who may have only a passing interest in the hobby but after such treatment will have no interest!   On one occasion, I was studying  a layout closely as it portrayed a prototype I was very familiar with (in fact my own, very slowly, developing opus is set less than a mile from the subject layout) and asked the exhibitor if he had seen the photographs of his subject in a particular book, to which the rejoinder was 'I don't use coffee table books for my sources!'.   I finished the conversation there and then.   Which is a pity because it would have shown him he'd got his timeline slightly wrong and two things he had modelled could not possibly have co-existed!   I know, Rule 1, but not when you have said it is accurate for whatever date!   These days I no longer bother; I observe, take note of details and generally appreciate the workmanship but, otherwise, life is too short!

Sorry for the rambling, but I do feel strongly that exhibitions are the showcase for the hobby and exhibitors should go out of their way to make all welcome, particularly the casual visitor.   Most do, but there is a significant minority who seem to be saying  I am only here to show the plebs how good I am!

 

Regards

John

 

[Happy Hippo]

I don't think there is anything wrong with ploughing a solitary furrow when it comes to railway modelling.  An excellent modeller, with whom I have an email friendship, has never been a member of a club, and of late has put less and less on line.  He does post on his own website very occasionally, and I can't recall the last time he visited a model railway exhibition.  But he is still enjoying himself.  It is a hobby, and we are supposed to enjoy it not suffer because of it!

 

But what John has mentioned about going to exhibitions has struck a cord, mainly as it was one of the points I was going to make later on, but since it's been mentioned, I'll write about it whilst I can remember what I was originally thinking about.

 

If you are not going to an exhibition to exhibit or demonstrate, you are going there to be entertained.  That entertainment should also encompass a learning experience.  The exhibition might be put on to make money for either the club or a good cause, but it should also be there to entertain and educate.  Putting on a good show where an individual, or a family walk away wanting to build a model railway should be ticking all the boxes.  The exhibition has encouraged an interest that will help keep the hobby alive.  That is because that individual or family will in themselves become ambassadors for model railway, even if only in a very small way.  They will support the model railway industry, so that encourages that trader or manufacturer to invest more, and that leads to better clubs and exhibitions.

 

Well, that's a very simplistic view, but I hope that one can see the logic behind the sentiment.

 

However, for the actual visitor, the  model railway exhibition experience can be  very different.  I think this boils down to the actors in the play, those who are there to give demonstrations or to display their model railway to the visitors.  They sometimes forget that they are not at the show to benefit themselves,  but as the entertainment!

 

How many casual visitors to the Colosseum would have been disappointed if the Lions had all sat down and talked about their time in Africa, rather than setting about the hapless Christians?

 

Of course I can take something of the moral high ground here as I have made it a policy that at shows I attend, then accessibility to what I have done and how I go about doing it takes priority over operating the railway.  Of course I am able to do this only because I have an operating team who are like minded.  we have taken model railways to exhibitions that are virtually bare boards, and covered with bits of paper and cardboard to represent scenery and come away with very positive comments, especially from those who were just starting.  Likewise having bits of scenery that were in various degrees of finish also went down well.

 

At one show we stopped operating so the half dozen or so that were around the layout at the time could have a go at using using the Dingham couplers.  We've also had girls, YES GIRLS, spend ages with us because we were prepared to give them the controller and let them have a go.  Whether they became avid enthusiasts afterwards or went away with better understanding of DCC I don't know, but they did enjoy themselves and actually came back to say goodbye before they left!

 

Now. it is not feasible for all exhibitors to operate in this way, and for some of the bigger layouts it would be totally chaotic and just wouldn't work, so what we did was to employ another theatrical device, and that's 'Front of House'.  Something that Olddudders and Ashcombe can easily relate to and know of it's importance.  For us the FoH is a spare bod, on a 'rest' from operating who patrols the front of the layout and answers any questions.  If they cannot answer, then it is within their remit to ask one of the other operators to  help or explain.  We've found It works very well and allows the operators to get on with their job.  So we try to entertain and help or educate through out the day.

 

Another idea we came up with was an enforced break.  We operate to a set sequence, which last for (I think) 45 loco moves.  at the end of which the operators change around and we take a break to go to the lavatorial facilities, get a tea or answer questions.  This is somewhat different to the complaint of a layout that just sits there nothing with all the operators in a huddle in the corner.  At least two of us will be out front talking to people, some of whom may  be friends but we try our best to include casual visitors.  One chap asked about our point operating system, at the time a temporary arrangement of ply rods and micro switches.  So the layout skirt was lifted, and he was able to take some photos of her ladyship's nether regions.

 

We have found that by making ourselves accessible, making sure that we engage with viewers and not necessarily wait for them to ask, and be visible by wearing polo shirts with the railway name embroidered on the left side, that we spend quite a bit of time in meaningful conversations about how they can do this or that.

 

Does this create a favourable impression?

 

Judging by the comments we get from organisers after the show I think it does.  Certainly it usually results in an invite to return.

 

Is it a unique way of doing things?

 

I hope not.

 

 

[New Haven Neil]

I have found both G1MRA and GoG to be clique-y even in their publications - I no longer am a member of either as a result.  The Vintage Motor Cycle Club is worse.... and yes, they have the same editorials about enticing younger members and letters on the next page decrying youth and 'new' bikes, that are in fact older than the 'vintage' bikes were when the club was set up. #sigh#

 

I used to be a member of a MR club before we moved away, and it had a range of members and interests, who all basically got on, so it can be done.  We had a large G scale layout we took to shows which was operated from the front and the interaction with the public was always so much better.  At one show (Halifax I think, it was 20 years ago!) the ended up putting a row of seats in front of us as there was a very large aisleway, and the 'elder' public loved that, being able to sit and watch, and interact with the crew.  We took Public Choice and Best Locomotive trophies away from that one.

[New Haven Neil]

Them wer't days....

[Happy Hippo]

I've always tried to model railways as I remember them.

 

I'd quite fancy doing something Taff Vale, but to be honest, the TVR had ceased to exist before my father was born, and I doubt that even in G1MRA or the G0G are there any members who are still actively modelling who have actually seen the stuff and remember it.

[Happy Hippo]

3 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

 

I know they are an odd scale and gauge combination: of 45mm gauge and a 1:29 scale, but  the likes of a GP 9 or a GP 38 in the garden tugging about 40 various assorted bogie wagons quite floats my boat.

 

What would not be so appetizing, is the cash required to convert fantasy into reality.

[New Haven Neil]

There were 5 of us pooling stock, we ran 26 cars once, 4 loco lash up......made quite a roar.  I've got a GP9 somewhere!  And an NW2.....oh dear, look what you've done!

 

There wasn't any seriousness in the layout, mixed scales etc (Merioneth Society where are you) but it ran well and was a great spectacle.  The car float floated.  My work, as you may imagine!

 

[Dave Hunt]

11 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

As per Bill's request, I'm going to try and get the chat started:  I have to sit here for a time as the gas man has arrived to carry out the annual service of the boiler and the fire in the sitting room.

 

Of course the irony of this is that having done a lot of work with boilers and gas jets, I am probably better at the servicing that he is.  However, I lack the paper qualification.  This really grates, when for instance, I have to show them where the flues exit the house.  Which only goes to prove the old saying that time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted. 

 

Still if nothing else, that has warmed up my fingers.................

 

I know that some of the followers of TNM are members of the Gauge 0 Guild, and I'm sure they have been following this thread in MM&M with interest:

 

'Non member view and thoughts about the Gauge O guild'

 

As I read through it, I came across a posting by SteveyDee68.

 

I did not reply,  because I needed time to cool down, as what I read was quite appalling.

 

I know Steve follows TNM so will no doubt pick up on what I have to say.

 

The treatment that his father and he received from that group of modellers was awful, and is exactly the attitude I have found in some elements of the G0G.  and yet these same people cannot understand why the Guild is seen by some as the preserve of the rich, aloof and condescending.

 

I saw it in some elements of G1MRA many years ago, so perhaps it is the larger scales that suffer from this superior and holier than thou attitude?

 

The gas man has gone, so more later, but has anyone else encountered the same clique mentality as Steve?

 

Not just in 0 Gauge, but in other areas of railway modelling?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What happened HH?

 

Dave

[Erichill16]

On a similar type of theme, when I’m ‘scouting’ out layouts for my local exhibition often the owner/group in keen to come until I mention my clubs whereabouts. There’s nothing wrong with our show I just think people thing they’re too good for our show. Could go on, perhaps tomorrow, but I’m at work tomorrow so need an early night.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

What happened HH?

 

Dave

Well, I've taken my medication if that helps.

[Dave Hunt]

I was a member of the G0G many years ago but I left because I became disaffected with the way it was being managed. I have been a member of the S7 Group since it's inception (and was it's chairman for a few years in the 90s) and the ethos there has always been to try to make S7 as attractive a proposition as possible and to stress that it is not the pursuit of an elite but is attainable by most modellers. It is also a friendly and supportive group, which to my mind is what any hobby organisation should be but sadly too many get taken over by those who seem to delight in politics and tribalism. 

 

Unfortunately that can happen in RMW as well; a year or so ago I posted in a forum mildly disagreeing with the OP and the response was as if I had doubted his parentage, eventually telling me to f-off back to Shropshire . Luckily, though, the vast majority in this hobby are decent, friendly and helpful people who just want to get on with enjoying life and railway modelling and are dismissive of the few bad apples. Which brings me to what this post is really to say (and about time I should imagine you are undoubtedly thinking) - ignore the petty, the rude, the self-opinionated and the self-important pillocks and concentrate on the majority of decent folk.

 

Mind you, anyone who models the GWR ........... 

 

Dave

[Tony_S]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

I'd quite fancy doing something Taff Vale, but to be honest, the TVR had ceased to exist before my father was born

Definitely old enough to count as history even in the 1960s. I suspect I am not the only person who recalls having to write about the Taff Vale Railway for the British Economic and Social History O level. 

[bbishop]

A general and a personal point about the GOG.  Even though many of the groups incorporate an "O" and two "G's" in their name, they are all separate entities to the Guild, which can take no responsibility for the actions of group members, who need not actually have Guild membership.   Then on a personal level, I may have a stupidly early number, but I've always steered clear of any involvement in Guild organisation or politics.  All I do is write our groups report for the Newsheet.  Possibly why I'm still a member .....   

 

We try to keep our group low key.  And yes, we have a member who unwraps his stock whist we put up the test track, sets it out whist we do the electrics,  and will happily run it all evening to the exclusion of everyone else.

 

Bill 

[chrisf]

6 hours ago, Tony_S said:

Definitely old enough to count as history even in the 1960s. I suspect I am not the only person who recalls having to write about the Taff Vale Railway for the British Economic and Social History O level. 

 

You're not.  The Taff Vale case was something of a landmark in Trade Union law.  I am reminded of a disagreement with one of my lecturers at university which resulted in him knowing much more about the Taff Vale Railway and its importance at the end of the lecture than at the beginning.

 

Chris

[Stubby47]

Just askin'

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, chrisf said:

 

You're not.  The Taff Vale case was something of a landmark in Trade Union law.  I am reminded of a disagreement with one of my lecturers at university which resulted in him knowing much more about the Taff Vale Railway and its importance at the end of the lecture than at the beginning.

 

Chris

I picked the TVR because it did have a family connection.  My great grandfather, on my father's side worked in the Works at West Yard, and his three sons all apprenticed into the TVR works via the family connection.  With the GWR in charge they were dispersed to where their skill sets were most needed, my grandfather working at Cathays shed whilst his two brothers worked at either the old Rhymney works at Caerphilly, or at the Barry works.

 

As a boy my father had a pet rabbit:  the hutch bring adorned with a miniature brass loco name plate: 'Sunny Warren'.

 

One wonders what such a plate would  bring these days at auction?  Of course, it went as scrap during WWII.

 

But the family connection made sure I didn't really have a choice when it came to picking a place to model did I?

[Happy Hippo]

47 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

Just askin'

 

 

In the layout thread there is an excellent layout based on Midland practice, in the Tewkesbury area,  but I find that two things about it just grate slightly.

 

The line represents a double track secondary route that has been  singled and there is  what would have been a leading connection into part of the goods yard, which I doubt would happen on a Midland line.  I could have accepted it if the turnout was part of a replacement panel when the line was singled, but  it obviously isn't.  The second grate point is the most incredibly laid sections where only the sleepers and chairs exist, the rail having long gone.

 

A lot of care and detail went into this, even to the extent of carefully balancing the keys back into their original chairs once the rail has been lifted. 

 

Can I claim the miserable unfriendly git title this morning?

[jamie92208]

11 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Can I claim the miserable unfriendly git title this morning?

Most definitely G(for Grumpy) Hippo.  Obviously all this Midland talk is getting to you.  Anyway I'm off out to do battle with a fly screen kit.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

1 minute ago, jamie92208 said:

Most definitely G(for Grumpy) Hippo.  Obviously all this Midland talk is getting to you.  Anyway I'm off out to do battle with a fly screen kit.

 

Jamie

Railway tribalism is like a set of traffic lights:

 

Wait on the red, get ready with  the yellow, but only go when it's green

[Dave Hunt]

When in 1975 I attended the RAF JC&SS (junior command and staff school) one of the first tasks we were given was to prepare and give a fifteen minute presentation on a subject of our choice. The guidance was that it should not be service orientated and since we had just one day to prepare (in pre-internet days so no Google etc. to help) it had to be something we knew about. "Ah-ha," thinks I, "Something about railways then. I know, I'll talk about Quintinshill, that'll be something they won't have heard about before." So that's what I did. It went well and I was quite pleased but when the debrief began with, "Well done, that's about the best talk on Quintinshill we've had recently," I was taken aback. It turned out that it was one of the more popular topics people chose. Just goes to show how widespread Railway interest is, or at least was 40 years ago.

 

Dave

[Dave Hunt]

7 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Railway tribalism is like a set of traffic lights:

 

Wait on the red, get ready with  the yellow, but only go when it's green

 

Bearing in mind that green means no need to do anything positive whereas red involves stopping and paying attention.

 

Dave

 

PS - probably worth remembering that a grumpy hippo is one of the most dangerous things around.

[Happy Hippo]

Just now, Dave Hunt said:

 

Bearing in mind that green means no need to do anything positive whereas red involves stopping and paying attention.

 

Istr that  at 500 feet in a Hawker Hunter, if all the lights go red on the dashboard, it is time to vacate the premises. Pronto!