RMweb Premium Northroader Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 I do hope our young friend doesn’t get carried away with tightening up when reassembling the safety valve after inspection. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 8 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: Richard, I have a problem. I realized tonight that my engine, while it does run, is chronically underpowered and short on steam. I mainly saw this after watching a video of a mogul of the same vintage as mine pulling 6 tinplate BR mk1s at speed on an oval. Mine struggles to make one rotation with a single coach. One trick I used when playing with Mamod jobbies many moons ago was to fill the boiler with boiling water from a kettle in order to give the poor little burner a head start... 1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said: PB and I are joint custodians of a secret cake mountain hidden deep in the hills of....................... The mountain is rapidly becoming a hill, sadly. How so? Well there is the very necessary sample testing at regular (very regular) intervals in order to confirm no degradation of stocks during storage. It's a tough job but Bear feels committed to such tasks, despite the very real personal risks involved (have you seen HH on the rampage?) 2 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Happy Hippo said: 1. Remove the safety valve and inspect it carefully, see if it is functioning properly and there is nothing that might be causing a leak, however slight, such as a damaged seal or perhaps some grit or scale that is trapped inside. 2. Remove the burner form the locomotive and clean it. Then test run the burner outside of the loco and make sure that once the burner is lit you have a blueish flame. This indicates the meths/spirit is burning at it's optimum rate. Thank you Richard, The safety has had many an inspection, and is working very well. However, it rarely actually gets used because there almost never sufficient pressure in the boiler to enable it to blow off. (This is not because the SV is sticking.) There are also no leaks. When I do get the SV to blow off, (after sitting for 2.5 min) then engine sets off at a giddy rate and can do maybe 5-6 circles at a stretch, before running out of steam. The burner seems to burn very well at a glance, with all the jets burning blue 98% of the time. But, I make my own pilot wicks. These pilot wicks I make from wick material that by itself is to thin for the wick hole, so is twisted over itself. However there is often still a gap around it. Could this be the problem? I can also send you pictures of the entire operating manual for the engine, which has many interesting comments. Douglas 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Another thing: I read in the manual that the amount of steam generated is governed by the fierceness of the pilot flame. Said wick should stick up 1/8 inch above its holder. Mine always does this, but doesn’t seem to generated the necessary pressure. Douglas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: Said wick should stick up 1/8 inch My brother's wife used to be an eBay trader. One of her best sellers was wick for oil lamps. What was very surprising was that she sold a lot to the US. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Happy Hippo said: Which one? If you mean the one in Turreff Avenue, Donnington, it closed years ago. It was too upmarket for the donors that live in the area. They already had Asda, Aldi and Co-op all with walking distance. Was telf land like a certain village in southern West Yorks where the price of a wrap of heroin was a jar of shoplifted nescafe. Jamie Edited November 25, 2020 by jamie92208 1 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) Douglas, The mogul uses a vapourizing burner. So you have two wicks. One external one for the pilot burner and a carrier wick that connects the meths tank and sump to the vapourizing tray. Once the large internal wick has lifted the fuel into the vapourizing tray, the pilot burner warms this so that the meths vapourizes and then when the vapour escapes through the vents, the pilot burner's secondary role is to light the vapour. Once it's alight, then the heat from the vapourizing tray is self perpetuating. However, as Neil pointed out earlier wick packing is crucial to the success. You should not double over any wick materiel as this will prevent the wick from operating properly. the wick should be packed tight enough so that there is no gap, but do not over pack as this will stop the wick from lifting sufficient fuel. This is especially critical of the internal wick that provides the fuel from the burner sump into the vapourizing tray. If it is too loose or too tight the burner will light up blue, BUT will not be delivering enough fuel to keep the steam generation up. Certainly what you are describing with the mogul would seem symptomatic of a fuel shortage. You can get it up to pressure, but lose it once running is a classic case of consumption over generation, which is the opposite of what you want at the moment. Try repacking both wicks so they are a firm fit into their respective wick holders and try again. Have about 1/8" of the pilot wick protruding with a skinhead cut, that is cropped, with no whispy straggly bits. Edited November 25, 2020 by Happy Hippo 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Wick repacked, now not doubled over. I shall now commence a test steaming. Many thanks to Richard. Douglas 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: Wick repacked, now not doubled over. I shall now commence a test steaming. Many thanks to Richard. Douglas Good luck or bon chance as my neighbours would say. Jamie Edited November 25, 2020 by jamie92208 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) This not insignificant leak from the lubricator plugs might have something to do with everything. The fiber washers have rotted away, so some silicone O rings need procuring. I had been wondering what the small plume of steam coming out the chimney when stationary was. Douglas Edited November 25, 2020 by Florence Locomotive Works 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 10 hours ago, rockershovel said: That’s a fascinating video. What radius are those live streamers running on? Also, what’s the occasion? I haven’t a clue about the radius, the occasion seems to be some sort of German vintage toy train get together around Dresden, or at least that’s were the channel is based. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simontaylor484 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 2 hours ago, polybear said: One trick I used when playing with Mamod jobbies many moons ago was to fill the boiler with boiling water from a kettle in order to give the poor little burner a head start... The mountain is rapidly becoming a hill, sadly. How so? Well there is the very necessary sample testing at regular (very regular) intervals in order to confirm no degradation of stocks during storage. It's a tough job but Bear feels committed to such tasks, despite the very real personal risks involved (have you seen HH on the rampage?) So there is the legendary strategic reserve hidden away after all. The reports of it being steam engines is just a cunning ruse a "steamscreen" to hide its true purpose 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simontaylor484 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, jamie92208 said: Was telf land like a certain village in southern West Yorks where the price of a wrap of heroin was a jar of shoplifted nescafe. Jamie Did it have South in its name i wonder 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: This not insignificant leak from the lubricator plugs might have something to do with everything. The fiber washers have rotted away, so some silicone O rings need procuring. I had been wondering what the small plume of steam coming out the chimney when stationary was. Douglas Let's put it another way: steam will follow the easiest and quickest route out of the pressurised system. It won't go through the cylinders unless you make it! Some ptfe tape will make a temporary seal. Edited November 25, 2020 by Happy Hippo 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2020 Having been somewhat criticized for my apparent slothfulness today, (I only stripped down and rebuilt my scroll saw, plus cutting out hearts for some ornamental pegs and staining them red, but that seems to have been overlooked.) I have been busy making dumplings. these will go into this evening's beef stew, which yesterday was a beef casserole. The last few drops have already been put to one side in order to make a beef soup for lunch tomorrow. My next task after the consumption of S&D will be to get the recycling out to the kerbside in advance of tomorrow morning's collection. Age is definitely catching up on me as after I had finished working outside, my feet were cold. not usually a problem when I'm moving around in either neoprene lined wellies or a decent pair of boots, but standing around is a different matter. I think I may have to research some lined boots................. Like the ones you get in old people's magazines for 50% off so they are only £29.99 a pair. 1 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erichill16 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said: Having been somewhat criticized for my apparent slothfulness today, (I only stripped down and rebuilt my scroll saw, plus cutting out hearts for some ornamental pegs and staining them red, but that seems to have been overlooked.) I have been busy making dumplings. these will go into this evening's beef stew, which yesterday was a beef casserole. The last few drops have already been put to one side in order to make a beef soup for lunch tomorrow. My next task after the consumption of S&D will be to get the recycling out to the kerbside in advance of tomorrow morning's collection. Age is definitely catching up on me as after I had finished working outside, my feet were cold. not usually a problem when I'm moving around in either neoprene lined wellies or a decent pair of boots, but standing around is a different matter. I think I may have to research some lined boots................. Like the ones you get in old people's magazines for 50% off so they are only £29.99 a pair. I’m surprised these boots aren’t advertised in the popular old person magazine, Railway Modeller! Robert 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said: S&D Ivo Peters won’t be happy with you eating his railway. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: Ivo Peters won’t be happy with you eating his railway. Not much he can do about it.................... Well, not in this world! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 hours ago, simontaylor484 said: So there is the legendary strategic reserve hidden away after all. The reports of it being steam engines is just a cunning ruse a "steamscreen" to hide its true purpose The steam loco reserve does indeed exist - that's how we manage to get the requisite amounts of cake into the mountain.... 2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said: Age is definitely catching up on me as after I had finished working outside, my feet were cold. not usually a problem when I'm moving around in either neoprene lined wellies or a decent pair of boots, but standing around is a different matter. Standing on a concrete workshop floor doesn't help - some form of insulated mat may do wonders... 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, polybear said: Standing on a concrete workshop floor doesn't help - some form of insulated mat may do wonders... The workshop is not too bad as it has an insulated floor under laminate sheet. I will certainly be looking at some form of heavy duty plastic matting to lay where the work benches are in the garage. I just need to finalize the bench locations and get them installed. Edited November 25, 2020 by Happy Hippo 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave Hunt Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 Liberal amounts of Penderyn could also help warm the extremities but beware that too much can get you steaming - or is that the ultimate goal? (note to Douglas - not advised for fifteen year-olds, even those with recalcitrant Moguls). Tomorrow looks like being a reasonable day as Jill and my Dad are going to the nearby Dorothy Clive gardens and leaving me to my own devices. I'll be off to the workshop like a rat up a drainpipe as they leave the drive. Dave 4 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Another run was just had, this time with ptfe etc on the plugs. It leaked, but slightly less, I’m not sure how a bad a leak the photos below shows. But it still had very little power, and towards the end of the run could only mange 1 circuit before running out of steam. But, as Yoda said, there is another [possible solution]. And that is priming. The engine primes absolutely everywhere. Could it be that I am overfilling the lubricator to the degree that most of the oil is primed out and there is no seal around the pistons? This doesn’t seem to add up to the lack of steam though. Douglas 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium J. S. Bach Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Happy Hippo said: PB and I are joint custodians of a secret cake mountain hidden deep in the hills of....................... Appalachia! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florence Locomotive Works Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 This just arrived a few minutes ago, HH may find the second photo of interest. Douglas 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 32 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said: Tomorrow looks like being a reasonable day as Jill and my Dad are going to the nearby Dorothy Clive gardens and leaving me to my own devices. I'll be off to the workshop like a rat up a drainpipe as they leave the drive. Dave Mistake Number 3 - assuming Mrs. H won't be leaving you a jobs list.... 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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