The Night Mail

[New Haven Neil]

It is a true-ism that most electrical faults are carburation, and vice-versa!

[PhilJ W]

53 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

All sensible suggestions Tony, but yes I have changed the filter in the tank, and even tried without it.  Also the spark grid in the silencer.  The issue is it will run at full power, for about ten seconds, then stop dead. So that writes off most issues of back pressure, but points towards fuel starvation.  It could possibly be electrical, but the plug is OK and it fires right up again in a couple of pulls, so I doubt it is heat soak in the magneto, and the ignition cut out is operating correctly.  I can leave it ticking over no problem.

That certainly sounds like fuel starvation. One way to tell is can you smell petrol when it stops? if you can't its fuel starvation, if you can its possibly flooding. Have you checked that the float in the carb is operating properly? Whatever it is fuel is not getting to the engine. I had a similar problem with a car many years ago and it turned out to be a sticking float.

Edited February 15, 2021 by PhilJ W

[Tony_S]

8 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

It is a true-ism that most electrical faults are carburation, and vice-versa!

Or in the case of our Volvo, both. I loathed that car, or at least its engine. It had to go to the Volvo dealer for the replacement of the ignition module and carburettor. It didn’t come back as promised on the Friday. The service manager said the technician had pushed it to the back of the workshop and had gone home for a lie down. He had found the faults but was so stressed he came in next day to finish it. He had been supplied with both a faulty replacement carburettor and ignition module. Just a coincidence but that car did seem to have that kind of thing happen. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Tony_S

[Tony_S]

Stihl now make a fuel injection equipped chainsaw!

[polybear]

9 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

I too have noticed I am now some inch and a bit (a bit is an imperial unit of measurement, smaller than a bucketful) shorter than I used to be - according to the Dr's anyway.  Spoils my BMI. I used to be a shaving under 5'11" but am now high 5'9's. Debs nephew is 6'5", and built like a honey monster - he can adopt an intimidating presence, but in fact is a gentle soul.  

 

OK off for a walk to calm down, as having replaced everything replaceable or overhaulable on my chainsaw, it still conks out after 10 seconds.

 

Grumpy of Fraggle Rock.

 

Beary ideas....

Is the plug breaking down under load?

Is the breather hole in the fuel tank cap blocked, creating a vaccuum and so fuel starvation?

 

8 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I can recall many many years ago when chatting in the staff room, a new colleague mentioned that her husband couldn’t start their previously reliable motor mower since their move from Yorkshire. Apparently the spark plug sparked, there was compression and fuel getting to the cylinder. I made what I thought was a very sensible suggestion and got the response “he isn’t a complete idiot”.  A couple of days later she told me after hearing about my suggestion he went out and confirmed that he had been a complete idiot and it wasn’t petrol he had filled the tank with. 

 

Secretary at work - her husband and son refitted a gearbox to their car after having it rebuilt professionally.  Drove car.  A few miles later the gearbox was very, very sick.  Bozo's didn't know the gearbox would need filling with oil after refitting, despite the box having a "No Oil" label attached and warnings scrawled in large letters all over the receipt.....

[PhilJ W]

I had my jab today. Some people are taking other precautions.

[J. S. Bach]

Deleted.

Edited February 16, 2021 by J. S. Bach

[New Haven Neil]

Phil, the cab doesn't have a float, as it has to work in all sorts of odd angles.  It uses a diaphragm and a very light spring to control the needle valve, both have been replaced although there were no issues visible with them.

 

P-Bear, there is no breather hole, but a 'duckbill' rubber reed thingy, the tank works in a slight vacuum controlled by the beak.  It shows no sign of distress but will be replaced as it is the sole remaining item in the fuel system that hasn't been!

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

Phil, the cab doesn't have a float, as it has to work in all sorts of odd angles.  It uses a diaphragm and a very light spring to control the needle valve, both have been replaced although there were no issues visible with them.

 

P-Bear, there is no breather hole, but a 'duckbill' rubber reed thingy, the tank works in a slight vacuum controlled by the beak.  It shows no sign of distress but will be replaced as it is the sole remaining item in the fuel system that hasn't been!

 

The Harley Sportster had a Tillotsen carb of that sort at one time, although (wisely, IMHO) the Big Twin never received it. Often referred to as the “Toiletson” it functioned best in mid-air, on its way into the long grass - its ample weight providing full aerodynamic stability. 

 

I would offer a further category, from experience - most CV carb problems are caused by the breather hoses. 

[Adam88]

Is its orifice working properly?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Shilling's_orifice

[Happy Hippo]

Full of aches this morning: 

 

I have no idea why, so after cutting in the edge between walls and ceiling of the spare bedroom, I decided to have a hot bath and am now fully restored.

 

This will allow me to finish the ceiling tomorrow.

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

Yesterday's gymnastics at altitude were remembered this morning with a bit of an ache in the back.  I suppose that standing on a step stool and then curling the spine so you are effectively upside down to try and paint into a corner without moving the stool is not something that the more mature should attempt.

 

Still, it's all warmed up now, and since I knew what caused it, there's not a problem and the worry of thinking what caused it.

 

What has been more of a problem is trying to compose what would be the follow up to my deliberations on how I was moving forward with my railway modelling. Having come to the latest conclusion, I have tried to write it down a number of times over the past few days, but to no avail.  It ended up being very long winded, rambled about rather too much and just didn't gel.

 

However, this will be the fourth and final attempt so please excuse any hesitation, repetition or deviation:  This will take more than just a minute!

 

I am always planning for the next layout, so although the current one (Splott West Sidings (SWS)) remains unfinished, I keep looking at what I can do next.  This might not be the most productive use of my time, but it keeps me reasonably sharp, and I enjoy the challenge of trying to design something new.

 

Now what I have noticed is that my plans always seem to revert to a set theme.  The theme being quite simple:

 

A form of freight exchange, with the addition of passenger only through traffic.   The exchange means that, for instance a train of full minerals will arrive and be placed in the exchange sidings.  The loco and brake van from the train will then either depart or await re-tasking.  The full wagons are then removed off scene, and eventually are replaced by a rake of empties.  The resting loco and brake van can then make up a new train and then depart.  The same process can be used for van or tanker traffic.  This is just a variation on the John Armstrong principle of full in/empty out so is not ground breaking or original but it serves one of my pet hates which is where mineral traffic arrives in a yard, is shunted to a coal drop or staithe, and then eventually leaves without unloading.

 

Petty?  Most definitely!  More so when you consider that I prefer as little interference as possible from the 'hand of God', so would prefer not to be fiddling with 3 link or screw couplings and changing the loco and brake van lamps every time the train stops or changes direction.  In fact to avoid this I'm afraid my loco and brake vans tend to run without lamps, which is seen by some as terribly bad form........

 

And I sympathise with them.  But  I've never seen any model railway change the outboard lamp on a freight train which is in a refuge siding from showing red to the rear and replacing it with white as should be done.

 

So having digressed slightly, and reverting back to this repetitive theme, if I accept that the next line will be only a slight variation on the theme, one has to question why I would bother to want to change the current model?

 

The answer is I don't.  If I were taking this in isolation, then very little would change as far as SWS is concerned, but there are other factors which have to be taken into consideration.

 

When I designed SWS is was primarily a model railway designed for exhibition use, so it was built with consideration for ease of erection/dismantling transport, storage, viewer entertainment and presentation. But designing these factors in also have other implications.

 

SWS required a van to move it around, it requires at least three operators to function, and since it was first built has grown in length, which means it is no longer able to be erected in the garage unless it is placed diagonally across, which is impossible due to the amount of other stuff stored in there at present.

 

Ironically, the 24" extension was added, to enable the  original 3+4+4+5 board length to become 5+4+4+5, allowing the boards to face each other to both make storage easier and to give protection to the scenery.  This boxing has enabled SWS to sit safely in the garage for nearly 18 months!  Therein lies one of the problems!

 

The various lockdowns and  the impact of Covid 19 and it variants have made me reassess my railway activities, and this does have a significant impact on the what I see as the way forward. I've had to consider whether I wish to continues to take model railways to exhibitions, or if it is time to step back.  I'm well aware of my advancing years.  Older than some here, but younger than others!  But do I really need the lugging and tugging, the organising, trying to sort out transport and all the other little but vital aspects of going to an exhibition.  The lugging and tugging also have a bearing on when I'm at home. SWS is easy to put up and take down, but it was built along the lines of USS Missouri, so it very heavy in comparison with my later experimentation with baseboards.

 

I also need something that I can easily operate alone.  SWS went through a number of changes during it's creation including a number of alterations to the track plan, but more importantly the location of the point and signal console. It's current location makes single man operation very awkward.  Add to that the traverser, which I am not happy with both from the aspects of construction and operational efficiency (I'd prefer not having to handle stock too much) and it becomes obvious that changes need to be made.

 

The question is how?

 

Operationally, SWS ticks most of the required boxes, so it could be that making up new, lighter boards, and cutting out the  existing track bed (cess to cess) and reapplying these to the new lightweight fames is a possibility.  Rearranging the controls to a single man operating position could be easily achieved.  The redevelopment of the fiddle yard, would not be difficult, although the review of the current system would make the revised version about 8 feet long!  Considering that SWS is already too long for the garage, making it longer is not going to help.

 

But is all this remedial work worth it?

[skipepsi]

I think the question is do you want a layout that you can leave ready to operate either on your own or with a couple of friends or do you want to exhibit SWS? If you want to exhibit a layout possibly in 2022 at the earliest and maybe 2023 would it be SWS as it is?

 

The first exhibitions will probably be minimum expense ventures so that if cancelled or restricted the organisers don't bankrupt their club. This may restrict invitations until a new normal emerges.

 

If SWS were mine I would lop off a length so it would fit in the garage and make a corner section and attach the pruned section across the back of the garage.

At the end of the day it is your time, money and enjoyment.

[simontaylor484]

Skipepsi has beaten me to the answer i was going to suggest regarding the first exhibitions.

I think you will soon be able to have running sessions with others though. 

You have sws to a point where you want it operationally would it be worth breaking it up or is there an alternative way of fitting it in the space you have

[Dave Hunt]

When you ask is your suggested remedial work worth it, Richard, the short answer in my opinion is that if you aren't happy with the current SWS then yes, it is worth it.  And I agree with Skipepsi's points.

 

But whatever you do, don't forget to include room for  cake stand.

 

Dave 

[Happy Hippo]

One of the troubles with 7 mm scale is that you can't really get away with really sharp curves, so even allowing for a 5 foot radius curve, I'd need to lop off a six foot section.  Since SWS is 18 foot layout, which is 2 feet too long for the garage I'll be lopping off eight feet in order to create a curved board to access the fiddle yard.

 

This would mean rebuilding the last scenic board and a lot of track realignment.   It would end up with having to make another two or three curved boards  and a 90 degree throw is not really going to work in what was supposed to be a straight configuration in a particular Cardiff location around Tyndall Street.  Danemouth knows where I'm referring to, so my mental image of the greater picture, would not allow it to fit into the new configuration without a major reordering of the Cardiff area!

 

Regarding the exhibitions, I have been lucky enough to have a friend who will lend me his van, and failing that I do have ready access to a trailer, so I do try to keep costs down to the organisers, but I do feel that if I am going to exhibit in future, I need to be able to put a lightweight easily transportable model railway into the back of the car, probably with one man operation in mind.  I'm not suggesting a micro layout, so this would have to be carefully thought out.  In 4 mm scale it would not be an issue! 

 

Dave's point about not being happy with the current layout is very pertinent.  SWS was never intended to be the be all and end all, but was a stepping stone off to greater things.  Rather than  a lot of rebuilding, perhaps it would be better if I stopped any further scenic work on the boards:  Operationally it's fully working,  so I can use it as it stands, whilst I develop a more up to date replacement.

 

If needs be I can combine the suggestions about shortening the layout so it fits into the garage longitudinally, and adjust the fiddle yard to cater for this.  Much as the new traverser design, much of which I've gleaned from Jamie, would be the route I would wish to follow, perhaps a cassette based system would be of more use.  It would certainly save space, and would cut down on excess stock handling.

 

Of course, to do this I first need to clear out all the excess junk from the garage.

 

I'll get there, like I always do.  It's just not necessarily by the most direct route.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jamie92208]

There was a layout in the Wakefield club based on Towyn, called Eastgate. It was about 24' long straight at exhibitions.  In the clubroons a small square board with a 90 degree bend was used to erect it spaced at roughly the 16' point. That worked well but of course being 7mm NG the corner radius was about 15". You would need  board with whatever your minimum radius is.

 

On thevother points, why go for coal loads. Most coal near to puts would cone in via landsale in riad vehicles. However your goods yard would deal with general goods traffic. This would be dealt with in the goods shed where a magnet could take loads out.  You could also have a loading chute where local opencast coal is tipped into empty wagons, using some sort if powder valve or conveyor belt.  This of course would be removed off scene. Similarly a local factory could send goods out by rail.

 

Certainly arrange the controls for one person operation.

 

Have fun.

 

Jamie

[Tony_S]

My contribution to exhibitions was limited to supplying locos and rolling stock for club layouts. I don’t think I could produce something of exhibition quality so I am not sure how valid my opinion would be.  However Mick’s (SkiPepsi) sounds very sensible. I do mean sensible as a compliment. When praised for an idea at a staff meeting I said I couldn’t take credit as it was another colleague’s (not at the meeting). Our boss said he wasn’t surprised as “Liz Is so sensible “. When I told Liz she informed me that she was fed up of being “sensible “ , she really wanted to be “exciting or dangerous”. 

[Happy Hippo]

18 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

You would need  board with whatever your minimum radius is.

 

On thevother points, why go for coal loads. Most coal near to puts would cone in via landsale in riad vehicles.

 

Jamie

Agreed, I was looking at a main line radius of five foot, which is sharp if you consider the old G0G minimum recommended radius of 6 feet.  An Ex GWR B Set is not comfortable below 4' 6" although it did stagger around South Greenwood's four footers.  The issue there was the slightest reverse curve resulted in buffer locking.

 

The trouble with South Wales is that the main traffic source up until the 1990's was coal.  If I had a continuous run then there would be two trains that  permanently ran in opposite directions, one full and the other empty.  due to my space constraints lines are invariably fiddle yard to fiddle yard or some form of terminal arrangement. All my plans allow for full wagons into the scenic section, and then tripped out off scene to be unloaded.  Their reverse traffic being a train of empties which cycle through in the opposite direction.  It requires careful management in the fiddle yard, so from that aspect, a cassette based system would make it much easier, but it is why I've tended to build exchange sidings or yards, with minimal passenger facilities.  Perhaps it is not wanting to  build a mineral unloading facility.  I do not have the skill set of the likes of Giles Favell!

 

Some  South Wales valley stations were bereft of freight facilities, and a single siding with a good shed in which to store perishables or high value items was sufficient.  As you have pointed out the land sales were not generally rail served. As an example, Abergwynfi, a passenger terminus, had no goods yard on the site; this was dealt with by a single siding further up the Avon colliery branch.

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

Not guilty!

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9266873/Archaeology-Pharaoh-ruled-Egypt-3-500-years-ago-caught-battle-executed.html

[bbishop]

So far as exhibitions are concerned, I think we must await Covid-19 becoming endemic.  This means an annual jab for those at risk, probably the cohort presently entitled to a flu jab.  There will still be huge risks given the vaccine deniers, the ability of viruses to mutate and Bozos refusal to manage the process.  We need to have a robust vaccine passport, no doubt the deniers will attempt to go on holiday with photocopies of their parents' vaccine cards and will be aggrieved when turned back on arrival on the continent.  Headlines in the Daily Express!  Only then will the government attempt to lash up a system, no doubt outsourcing to Dido Harding plc, who will charge us £100-00 for a process costing £5-00 and still getting it wrong.  Cynic, me?

 

Hopefully, exhibitions such as Guildex will then require a Covid passport for entry.  Still doubt if there will be exhibitions before autumn 2022.

 

So to your problems, which seems to be weight of baseboard and length of layout.  I did a risk assessment of setting up baseboards of 2'8" x 4', made of 3" timber and 9mm marine ply.  I could manage a single board with my "putteruperer", but made the decision to concentrate on the small layout (invited to the next Guildex) which has 4' x 1' boards.  You don't state your width.  Sorry, you've already told us it is 5'11", but what about Splott?  I would be comfortable setting up 4' x 2' on my own, it is the extra 8" that's the problem.  (Stop sniggering at the back). 

 

Could you reduce to four 4' lightweight boards?  Save your back, operable at home and you have 18 months to build it.  Bill

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

TOn thevother points, why go for coal loads. Most coal near to puts would cone in via landsale in riad vehicles. However your goods yard would deal with general goods traffic. This would be dealt with in the goods shed where a magnet could take loads out. 

 

The local pits would quite probably not produce all the types of coal required for local consumption.

[Happy Hippo]

Thanks Bill, The smiley was becasue of my width as opposed to the SWS width.

 

There are two board sizes 4' x 2'6" and 5' x 2' 6".  The like sized boards bolting together for transportation and storage purposes.

 

The larger boards are on the absolute limit for getting up onto the frame they reside on at shows and really need to be reduced in weight somewhat.

 

One option I did consider was having narrow boards, with the track and signals thereon and much lighter boards that bolded onto the front and rear faces of these 'track board' in order to add the non railway scenery and backscenes.  these no structural units would be very light and also would create real depth both in the vertical and horizontal planes.

 

It is a scheme I intend to follow through with Pantmawr Sidings once it has been dismissed from G0G 'small layout competition' status.

[bbishop]

Richard, could you run fiddle yard - scenic boards at home and fiddle yard - scenic boards - fiddle yard at exhibitions.  The second small fiddle yard for the through passenger and local freight services only, the latter including the household coal.  A nice touch would be for the household coal to be in a side door wagon whilst all the wagons in the exchange sidings would be side & end for the bunker traffic.  My plan for the "last great project" is to have the operating positions at the juncture of the scenic boards and fiddle yard, would that help with the number of operators?  Also if you use cassettes, the fiddle yard boards are pretty much two dimensional.  Jamie has seen my Höchstädt boards, where the fiddle yard folds out, meaning a 7' usable length out of a 4' board.  Bit heavy though.   Bill

[bbishop]

6 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

One option I did consider was having narrow boards, with the track and signals thereon and much lighter boards that bolded onto the front and rear faces of these 'track board' in order to add the non railway scenery and backscenes.  these no structural units would be very light and also would create real depth both in the vertical and horizontal planes.

 

That's what I do on Höchstädt, but only at the front.  I have eight boards of 2'9" x 1', using a sort of sliding hinge.  Problem at the back would be tired operators leaning on them - insurmountable.  Problem at the front is tired punters leaning on them, despite the notices!  Not a problem with transportation but a bore to carry from car to layout.  Bill