The Night Mail

[iL Dottore]

The city of Basel still has a few trolley bus lines, although the bulk of public transport in Basel is provided by the excellent tram network of BVB (in Basel) and BLT (for Baselland). For areas outside the tram network you do have an excellent bus service (and the city public transport system is integrated with the SBB which in turn is also integrated with other city public transport systems, private railways and the post bus network in rural areas [so, public transport as run by grownups]).

 

There have been some interesting statistics collected about how the installation of different types of public transport network impacts on the areas they go to. Apparently, by building a tramline to an area you permanently increase the value of the area served by the trams and ridership tends to be pretty stable if not slowly increasing over time. In comparison, adding a bus line to an area does no such thing: the reason being that once a tram line is (expensively) built it cannot be shut down with any degree of ease, whereas bus services to an area can be removed at a moments notice at no expense to the bus service provider (sound familiar?)
 

I would imagine that in regards to ease of build and ease of cutting services, trolley bus lines would be somewhere between the bus line and the tram line (and probably nearer the bus line).

 

One final thought: in certain countries there appears to be the stigma that only poorer people use public transport. Not so in Switzerland. One of the BLT tramlines (the No 10) serves an area of Baselland where there is a lot of serious money (and in Switzerland serious money really is serious). Ridership is pretty high from these areas and (unsurprisingly) the number 10 tramline always gets the brand new trams when BLT upgrades its tram fleet - which it does on a regular basis.

[BR60103]

I remember feeling, when I lived nearish the end of a TB line, that if I saw a bus go the other direction it would have to come back and pick me up. Same with a streetcar or tram.  But a gas bus could go down the road and then head off to the depot or who knows where.

 

[chrisf]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

The city of Basel still has a few trolley bus lines

Aha!  Something else for me to explore if/when I next visit.

 

Chris

[AndyID]

10 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

 

That's why I have grey hair.....it was a bit of a task! 

 

I had a couple of special parts custom made to make it a little easier after doing the prototype.  A few folk bought manual ones, realised they couldn't do the job themselves, then wanted me to sell them the parts. Ah, no.....but I'll fit it for you, for the same price as an RC version....

 

I'm glad to hear you got it all sorted out, but would it not have been simpler to connect the left-handed Knorten Valve to the tubular re-admission port?

[polybear]

8 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Just to show solidarity with Puppers, here are some piccies of my Sopwith. It's a little bit smaller than the stuff he makes though - just 17" wingspan and weighs a bit under 3 oz with an electric motor and R/C. It would probably sit on one half of the tail of his Triplane.

 

 

 

 

 

It depicts the aircraft that won the Schneider Trophy before WW1 after it was altered to have a wheeled undercarriage. 

 

Dave

 

 

 

That looks suspiciously like a proper model aircraft, built with bits of balsa and covered.  Seriously impressed, in a world where such model shops are now full of plastic and foam ARTF jobbies from China.

Now then, where's the air rifle?

 

Too late, gone.....

[jamie92208]

6 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

Ah, so more of a tramybus than a trolleybus

 

It took me some time to understand what they were doing. The sparks must have been really impressive. Just as well it was pre-telly time.

Leeds used the same system to get it's trackless trolleys back to the depot in 1911, from Aire Street back to Kirkstall Road depot.

 

As ID has mentioned above, public transport can be percieved as being for the poorer end of society. Twas not always thus.  The first trameay in Leeds was built to get the millowners and other monied classes from thdir new villas in Headingly, into town. Thry had moved out to avoid the smoke and pollution from their factories. In the process they left nice houses in town to be occupied by lawyers etc.  Park Square.  Later on as the tramway network expanded and was electrified  in the late 1890's they saw the trams as a means of getti g their workforces into the mills cheaply.

 

It has been shown in studies that trams are the only real system that gets people out of their cars.

 

Jamie

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

That looks suspiciously like a proper model aircraft, built with bits of balsa and covered.  Seriously impressed, in a world where such model shops are now full of plastic and foam ARTF jobbies from China.

Now then, where's the air rifle?

 

Too late, gone.....

 

Yes, PB, a project taken from preparing the drawings to completion of the model by my own fair paws. Construction is the old school balsa and tissue with a few bits of thin plywood and even the odd bit of plastikard. The trickiest bits were making the faux aluminium panels using stuff called Rub'n Buff to get the appropriate finish, making the wheels, doing all the rigging and hand painting the SOPWITH lettering on the fuselage. A very satisfying project, though, and she actually flies, although only in very little or no wind.

 

Dave

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, BR60103 said:

I remember feeling, when I lived nearish the end of a TB line, that if I saw a bus go the other direction it would have to come back and pick me up. Same with a streetcar or tram.  But a gas bus could go down the road and then head off to the depot or who knows where.

 

Back in the fifties my grandparents lived on a trolleybus route and if you were waiting for one you knew it was coming because the wires used to 'sing'.

[SM42]

The town of Zielona Gora has  electric buses with a pantograph on the roof. 

When the bus arrives at the terminus, the pantograph  is raised to charge the battery from an overhead gantry. 

 

Quite a neat solution. Freedom to divert off route if needed and no cables trailing around when top up  charging away from the depot

 

Andy

[rockershovel]

Early London Underground lines had First Class carriages, as did the Tower Subway 

 

It's probably significant in context, that the splendidly named Charles Tyson Yerkes, pioneer of underground mass transit railways in London, was American. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

Let's be fair about this. Buses are noisy, smelly, not spacious, frequently dirty, involve standing around in all weathers and stop and start constantly. They aren't a nice way to travel if you have any options.

 

I went to Stansted by long distance bus a while ago and it wasn't fun. 

[SM42]

18 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Let's be fair about this. Buses are noisy, smelly, not spacious, frequently dirty, involve standing around in all weathers and stop and start constantly. They aren't a nice way to travel if you have any options.

 

I went to Stansted by long distance bus a while ago and it wasn't fun. 

 

Sounds a bit like the train I caught yesterday morning.

 

Andy

[DenysW]

The tram museum (at Crich, Derbs) is closed until March 2022 for maintenance. The trolleybus museum (at Sandtoft, Lincs) appears to be open normally.

[bbishop]

4 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

L

 

It has been shown in studies that trams are the only real system that gets people out of their cars.

 

Jamie

 

Early days of Croydon Tramlink, especially on Addiscombe Road!  A woman got out of her dented Lancia to ask the tram driver why he hadn't swerved to avoid her.  Bill

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

It has been shown in studies that trams are the only real system that gets people out of their cars.

 

Hum. I wonder where such studies were done.

 

2 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Early London Underground lines had First Class carriages, as did the Tower Subway 

 

All three classes, I believe - at least the Metropolitan and Metropolitan District. There's an incident in The Forsyte Saga where the two bothers, who have not seen each other for years, happen to bump into each other at an Underground station. Their different financial habits are stronger than the ties of blood; despite travelling in the same direction, one persists in buying a first class ticket and the other, second.

 

2 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Let's be fair about this. Buses are noisy, smelly, not spacious, frequently dirty, involve standing around in all weathers and stop and start constantly. They aren't a nice way to travel if you have any options.

 

I would say that is deeply unfair; it certainly does not reflect my experience. I'll give you that they stop and start frequently - that's very much the point of their existence. I'll use one to travel into town over driving any day, in any weather. But Reading Buses are reputedly one of the best operators in the country, with a modern fleet.

[polybear]

5 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

As ID has mentioned above, public transport can be perceived as being for the poorer end of society.

 

The last time this Bear went on a Bus I nearly had a Cardiac when told the fare.....

 

4 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

Yes, PB, a project taken from preparing the drawings to completion of the model by my own fair paws. Construction is the old school balsa and tissue with a few bits of thin plywood and even the odd bit of plastikard. The trickiest bits were making the faux aluminium panels using stuff called Rub'n Buff to get the appropriate finish, making the wheels, doing all the rigging and hand painting the SOPWITH lettering on the fuselage. A very satisfying project, though, and she actually flies, although only in very little or no wind.

 

Dave

 

Seriously impressed, as I'm sure a certain young canine will be when he reads your post.  The thing that puts me off such fun is the thought of crunching it though.....

I could easily be tempted by an R/C Wokka though, as bashin' the dents out of them is basically nuts and bolts; however the last time I looked most of these seem to have gone over to The Dark Side (a.k.a leccy motors) 

[TheQ]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Let's be fair about this. Buses are noisy, smelly, not spacious, frequently dirty, involve standing around in all weathers and stop and start constantly. They aren't a nice way to travel if you have any options.

 

I went to Stansted by long distance bus a while ago and it wasn't fun. 

To use the bus to get into town it is long distance, three hours by bus going all over the place to get there.. 30 minutes by car to 

 town to the south west... The bus spends it's first 30 minutes driving north..

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

To use the bus to get into town it is long distance, three hours by bus going all over the place to get there.. 30 minutes by car to 

 town to the south west... The bus spends it's first 30 minutes driving north..

That sounds like some of the old Welsh railways that traversed the wilder parts of the Principality.

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, TheQ said:

To use the bus to get into town it is long distance, three hours by bus going all over the place to get there.. 30 minutes by car to 

 town to the south west... The bus spends it's first 30 minutes driving north..

It's a common problem around here. The buses run from the estates into town. There is no bus service around the Parkway, so to make any useful journey takes ages. Covid has made this worse, because the town is effectively shut and no-one goes there 

[Happy Hippo]

When we had a bus service some years back,  it was twice a week on Tuesday and Thursday.  The bus went from the village to all points before arriving at Telf Central at around 10am.  The return journey left at 1030, which meant if you didn't  manage to do all your shopping and get back on the bus within 30 minutes, you had to wait until Thursday morning for the next bus home.  It was dreadful if you had frozen goods to get back for the freezer!

 

As you can all imagine, no one used the service so it was withdrawn.

 

I suspect it was deliberately planned thus.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Morning all,

 

I got treated to a free air display at lunch today, courtesy of our resident T6 Texan squadron. Very enjoyable but I didn’t get any decent photos.

 

 

Douglas

[AndyID]

8 hours ago, SM42 said:

The town of Zielona Gora has  electric buses with a pantograph on the roof. 

When the bus arrives at the terminus, the pantograph  is raised to charge the battery from an overhead gantry. 

 

Quite a neat solution. Freedom to divert off route if needed and no cables trailing around when top up  charging away from the depot

 

Andy

 

There was a bus that picked up power at the bus stops and used it to spin up a flywheel which powered it to the next stop. Sweden possibly?

 

Depending on the orientation of the flywheel the bus would either resist changes in direction or changes in attitude.

 

Edit: the Gyrobus. Switzerland.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by AndyID

[Happy Hippo]

Food for thought:

 

[PupCam]

21 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

Just to show solidarity with Puppers, here are some piccies of my Sopwith. It's a little bit smaller than the stuff he makes though - just 17" wingspan and weighs a bit under 3 oz with an electric motor and R/C.

 

 

Very nice indeed!   And it has the distinct advantage over mine in as much it is finished, has flown and hasn't been "Under construction" for ~ 13 years!

 

21 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

It would probably sit on one half of the tail of his Triplane.

 

A bit like this ......

 

 

Alan

[laurenceb]

In the early days of the Nottingham trams (NET) a motorist pulled out of a side road and hit one plum centre! You might say that it's hard to miss something so big, that motorist certainly didn't