The Night Mail

[AndyID]

7 minutes ago, zarniwhoop said:

 

Perhaps I should cross-post it, e.g. on the leccy cars thread.

 

 

Only if you have masochistic tendencies

 

(Somebody beat you to it.)

[Happy Hippo]

Andy starts off Page 500 of TNM

 

 

Didn't he do well?

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Gentlemen, (and ladies if any follow this thread)

 

I am looking at a lathe. More specifically this lathe.

 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/goodell-pratt/page2.html
 

 

 

What do we think? The one I’m looking at is missing it’s motor and tool rest, but it is under $250 and the rest is in good condition. The tail stock is present and functioning, along with what looks like a watchmakers collet. I would not be using this lathe for watchmaking though, probably just ornamental turning until an affordable tool post/cross slide arrangement for one comes up.

 

I know it is a small lathe, but it’s a lathe none the less.

 

 

Douglas

[AndyID]

1 hour ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

Gentlemen, (and ladies if any follow this thread)

 

I am looking at a lathe. More specifically this lathe.

 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/goodell-pratt/page2.html
 

 

 

What do we think? The one I’m looking at is missing it’s motor and tool rest, but it is under $250 and the rest is in good condition. The tail stock is present and functioning, along with what looks like a watchmakers collet. I would not be using this lathe for watchmaking though, probably just ornamental turning until an affordable tool post/cross slide arrangement for one comes up.

 

I know it is a small lathe, but it’s a lathe none the less.

 

 

Douglas

 

Depends what you want to turn. Probably not brilliant for metal but OK for hard wood.

 

I have one of these

 

 

It never gets used these days. It does not have the power feed or screw cutting attachment. It is a little jewel of a machine.

 

No idea what it's worth but it could be available with a TNM discount   (It is quite heavy.)

[rockershovel]

I'm no expert on machine shop tools or practice, but I would warn against buying anything on the basis that it is cheap and available. There is a non-zero chance that this is because it has no real, useful function. 

 

Don't buy anything unless it definitely meets your requirements. 

 

[AndyID]

30 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I'm no expert on machine shop tools or practice, but I would warn against buying anything on the basis that it is cheap and available. There is a non-zero chance that this is because it has no real, useful function. 

 

Don't buy anything unless it definitely meets your requirements. 

 

 

Excuse me for being a wee bit blunt but that's rubbish. I'm pretty sure Douglas only has a vague understanding of his actual requirements. It's a learning process and Douglas is trying to learn and that's how we progress. The idea that all the old farts like me have all the answers patently wrong. Future generations need room to make their own decisions. Some will be wrong and some will be brilliant but older generations need to step aside and let them get on with it.

[polybear]

9 hours ago, Tony_S said:

............with their pants embroidered  with “pogue mahone”. She said that I wouldn’t understand “being British” , but I said I did. 

 

Bear didn't.  But he does now....

 

8 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

There are tax free limits for bringing things through customs. 

Currently £390  on non excise goods

.

A few trips might be needed ( 20 wagons, 3 coaches or a pair of locos per trip and still have some left for your own things) and exactly how would a second hand piece of rolling stock be valued by a customs official?

 

 

Buddy ex.-next door has a place in France - they make regular trips with a Car (Honda CRV) absolutely RAMMED with personal stuff as they often go out for several months at a time.  I've yet to hear that they were bounced by Customs.

 

8 hours ago, AndyID said:

Would I do? I can weld (gas & electric) and I can write code. Just pick-up my travel expenses and I'll do it for nuthin'

 

Hmm, nice try but no Banana...

 

8 hours ago, AndyID said:

I pointed out that you can't necessarily trust experts because it was experts that left out one of the only four bolts that attached the engine in my dad's Fiat 125 to the gearbox when they replaced the clutch. Then there were the experts at the Volvo dealer in California who left one of the wheel bolts out on my brand new Volvo XC. Another expert told me the brake drums on my Vanagon had to be turned and he turned them eccentric and another one told me the rear brake calipers on my Ford Crown Vic would need to be replaced to fix the handbrake. (The handbrake is a little drum-brake inside the disk rotor. It has nothing to do with the disk calipers.)

 

 

There's a very nice (looking), very brand new, very big Volvo engine in the workshop at College - donated by a certain Dealership when one of their spanner monkeys forgot to re-tighten the sump plug after a service....

He no longer works there apparently.

 

31 minutes ago, AndyID said:

Future generations need room to make their own decisions. Some will be wrong and some will be brilliant but older generations need to step aside and let them get on with it.

 

Armageddon here we come....

[Mike Bellamy]

8 hours ago, AndyID said:

I pointed out that you can't necessarily trust experts because it was experts that left out one of the only four bolts that attached the engine in my dad's Fiat 125 to the gearbox when they replaced the clutch. Then there were the experts at the Volvo dealer in California who left one of the wheel bolts out on my brand new Volvo XC. Another expert told me the brake drums on my Vanagon had to be turned and he turned them eccentric and another one told me the rear brake calipers on my Ford Crown Vic would need to be replaced to fix the handbrake. (The handbrake is a little drum-brake inside the disk rotor. It has nothing to do with the disk calipers.)

 

A bit like the restoration company that did a lot of work on my son's 1979 Mini - they did a great job on replacing various panels (most of front end) and the respray but then made a number of mistakes putting all the mechanicals back together. I drove it back and the steering didn't feel right - no split pin in the castle nut holding the hub together so the front wheel almost fell off. Some months later, a number of electrical problems seemed to indicate a poor earth and I suggested checking the earth strap between the engine and the body - but there wasn't one. Adjustable suspension (Hi-Lo) had been fitted and when it had all settled down, we went to make some adjustments to find there was no adjustment left as the butchers had used an angle-grinder to cut part of the thread off to make it fit !! These were so called experts who had previously had their work featured in Mini magazines.

 

[AndyID]

18 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Armageddon here we come....

 

Yeah, like we have done such a brilliant job?

[SM42]

Back to customs

 

Yes there are limits and paperwork if large amounts of stuff are exported / imported. ( one of the problems facing touring musicians and trade exhibitors.)

 

However, as PB  said,  what are the chances?

 

Certainly with 2nd hand its value will be diminished and the French valuation  my be a good idea. Maybe split into lots. 

 

I've brought stuff through without issue so far, but I have the receipts with me just in case and of course there are two of us, so we have an allowance each. 

 

Also don't forget that the UK government is currently running a light touch transition  customs regime.

When that will change who can tell and that's when the problems with things like rules of origin could really start.

 

Andy

Edited November 21, 2021 by SM42

[SM42]

Further to the above.

 

I don't know how far you friend's dementia has progressed Jamie, but I would be reluctant to separate them from the familiar too soon and if not too far advanced, now would be a good time for some preparation work to be done to make things easier as his condition  progresses.

 

With mum we got things like power of attorney sorted whilst she  still had mental capacity  and as time went on, I started hunting out and sorting paperwork that would be useful when the inevitable happened as well as researching what help and resources were available.

 

It made the journey a lot easier to have everything you needed to hand and organised. 

 

It's a cruel condition that has effects on everyone close to the sufferer.

It can bring out both the best and the worst, it can strain family relationships, it's a heart wrenching emotional roller coaster that doesn't seem to stop.

 

It took me a while and a lot of help from the Admiral Nurses to get over the feelings of guilt and inadequacy.

I couldn't have done it without them.

 

 

Andy

[Danemouth]

Living in Cardiff I avoid the city centre when there are major events on particularly of a sporting nature. I have never been to a rugby or football match or any other sporting event for that matter 

 

I may be the only man in Wales who loathes all sport!

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

Back onto the lathe saga:

 

As Andy has so rightly pointed out, it's a case of horses for courses when you start turning in timber or metal.

 

The lathe illustrated has no screw controlled x or Y axis controls, which would make repetitive turning somewhat of a problem. 

 

I note from the the original documentation that various attachments were available to upgrade the lathe, which included a cross slide and saddle for the X-Y fine control.  Whether these are still available is another matter, and if they were, at what cost?

 

The watchmakers collet looks more like a Stanley (other makes are available) standard 3 jaw hand tightened chuck, more often seen on hand drills.  They are not precision built and the 'run out'  is quite impressive, so trying to turn something might be rather entertaining if you wanted something that was truly parallel  and not slightly tapered.

 

One of the problems with lathes/mills/routers and any other machine tool is the exponential cost of the accessories. The add ons you will find you require are not cheap.

 

My advice as always is to think twice before you buy once.

 

When I first started, I made some duff purchases, because they were at the right price.

 

But why were these purchases duff?

 

Because the various machines I bought had no compatibility, and if you intend to machine components, then interoperability between machines will save you a fortune.

 

For instance being able to swap out a collet holder between lathe and mill will save you quite a bit of money, until you can afford to purchase a separate collet chuck for the lathe.  The same goes for other accessories.

 

If you can, when you are looking at lathes, try and get one which the chuck screws onto the headstock spindle and is not bolted to a faceplate.  I hate changing chucks so much, because it took so much time, with all the fiddly bolts etc, that I ended up getting a second lathe! 

 

If I were in the USA and was looking for a good small machine system I'd go to Sherline.  they are not cheap, but do offer a very comprehensive range with the ability to upgrade and, of course, with cross range compatibility:

 

https://www.sherline.com/

 

 

But, and there is always a but, Sherline's interoperability does not extend outside their range.  like Emco (Unimat) they want to tie their customers into their product.  And with this comes a cost as their parts can be slightly more expensive.

 

So look at what you want to do now, and then look at what you are likely to want to be doing in the future and buy appropriately.

 

(I use ER Collets as they are the most widely used, but collets are a subject all of their own!)

Edited November 21, 2021 by Happy Hippo
punctuation!*%^!

[Happy Hippo]

15 minutes ago, Danemouth said:

Living in Cardiff I avoid the city centre when there are major events on particularly of a sporting nature. I have never been to a rugby or football match or any other sporting event for that matter 

 

I may be the only man in Wales who loathes all sport!

 

Dave

Fibber, I have seen you taking part in that most hallowed of Welsh sports:

 

Beer drinking!

 

Yes dear readers, He loves it!

[Danemouth]

18 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Fibber, I have seen you taking part in that most hallowed of Welsh sports:

 

Beer drinking!

 

Yes dear readers, He loves it!

I have been known to quaff the odd pint of Brains Not recently due to lockdown and canned beer is unappealing to me.

 

Of an evening at Castell Danemouth I drink dry white wine and Penderyn. At one time I loved red wine but it no longer agrees with me

 

Dave

[tetsudofan]

3 hours ago, SM42 said:

It took me a while and a lot of help from the Admiral Nurses to get over the feelings of guilt and inadequacy.

I couldn't have done it without them.

 

 

Andy

 

Andy, agree with you regarding the Admiral Nurses.

 

I had had a difficult day with Mum when my Admiral Nurse phoned and she realised that I needed help..... and she got Mum into temporary care within three hours. Hate to think what would have happened if she had not made that call.......

 

Keith

[jamie92208]

3 hours ago, SM42 said:

Further to the above.

 

I don't know how far you friend's dementia has progressed Jamie, but I would be reluctant to separate them from the familiar too soon and if not too far advanced, now would be a good time for some preparation work to be done to make things easier as his condition  progresses.

 

With mum we got things like power of attorney sorted whilst she  still had mental capacity  and as time went on, I started hunting out and sorting paperwork that would be useful when the inevitable happened as well as researching what help and resources were available.

 

It made the journey a lot easier to have everything you needed to hand and organised. 

 

It's a cruel condition that has effects on everyone close to the sufferer.

It can bring out both the best and the worst, it can strain family relationships, it's a heart wrenching emotional roller coaster that doesn't seem to stop.

 

It took me a while and a lot of help from the Admiral Nurses to get over the feelings of guilt and inadequacy.

I couldn't have done it without them.

 

 

Andy

Thanks Andy.  The point you made has already been recognised.  I offered to help Kate as she obviously had concerns.  Grant enjoyed our visit and the fact that we played trains with him and was more animated than normal.  All I am trying to do at the moment  is to let Kate know that there is a feasible route forward when the time comes.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

As suspected, a session of fiddling about with the disc signal resulted in the tail of the white metal balance parting company with the rest of the casting.

 

I suppose it does go to show that using margarine rather than metal can have it's disadvantages.

 

That is not to say that white metal is not  a good modelling medium as it has some good attributes, but in this case, making a very small unit to try and cope with quite a lot of stress and strain was not the best option.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I will replace the balance weight with an etched brass version; although I will use the white metal balance weight to beef up the etch.  The bearings for the balance weight pivot will also be replaced with some brass tube.

 

By the time I've replaced the white metal lamp casting with a hollow (for illumination) version from the Modelu stable, there won't be much of the original kit left!

Edited November 21, 2021 by Happy Hippo

[Dave Hunt]

How many signals will you be making HH? Depending on quantity it may be worthwhile producing a master then getting lost wax brass castings made. I believe that there are still several casters in the Birmingham jewellery quarter that will uindertake small volume work and then there are model concerns such as Slaters who do LWCs.

 

Dave

Edited November 21, 2021 by Dave Hunt

[polybear]

5 hours ago, SM42 said:

Also don't forget that the UK government is currently running a light touch transition  customs regime.

When that will change who can tell and that's when the problems with things like rules of origin could really start.

 

Andy

 

Just load up a rubber boat and nip across to Blighty in that.  Border Force will probably meet you somewhere in the middle and give you a hand....

 

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

If I were in the USA and was looking for a good small machine system I'd go to Sherline.  they are not cheap, but do offer a very comprehensive range with the ability to upgrade and, of course, with cross range compatibility:

 

https://www.sherline.com/

 

 

 

Sherline are also available in the UK; the other option in the US are Taig Lathes and Milling machines - not quite a "GT" as a Sherline but very good - and with cheap(er) accessories too.  (Taig are also available in the UK - but are called "Peatol" over here - something to do with "Taig" being a derogatory word in Irish I think).

[Happy Hippo]

52 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

How many signals will you be making HH? Depending on quantity it may be worthwhile producing a master then getting lost wax brass castings made. I believe that there are still several casters in the Birmingham jewellery quarter that will uindertake small volume work and then there are model concerns such as Slaters who do LWCs.

 

Dave

I used to have access to a jeweller who was also a modeller and he was always prepared to make masters and cast up any essentials and 'would likes'.  These later entered the market under various brand names.

 

Sadly he died some years back, so the initial cost for the patternmaking went up quite considerably.

 

Although I have quite a few signals that I need to build, getting brass castings made up is not really viable, especially as there are a number of other manufacturers who are out there already producing items I want.

 

As far as lamp castings are concerned, you can buy brass ones that have already been drilled out to accept a bulb, whilst the 3D printed versions by Modelu are printed with a hollow body which makes them ideal for popping a LED inside.  They are also very highly detailed compared to castings

 

What  I would like is bracket that slides over the signal post that has the signal arm pivot on the one side, and a horizontal plate on the opposite side to  hold the lamp in the correct position so the lens lines up with the spectacle plate.  It would make alignment of the various components a doddle.

 

If I did the calculations, then it would probably end up as a brass or nickel silver etch.

 

However, although such a bracket would work for basic single posts and bracket signals it would have to be company specific as the various dimensions would vary between designs.  Specialist signals would also need a different etch made up.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Happy Hippo

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Back onto the lathe saga:

 

As Andy has so rightly pointed out, it's a case of horses for courses when you start turning in timber or metal.

 

The lathe illustrated has no screw controlled x or Y axis controls, which would make repetitive turning somewhat of a problem. 

 

I note from the the original documentation that various attachments were available to upgrade the lathe, which included a cross slide and saddle for the X-Y fine control.  Whether these are still available is another matter, and if they were, at what cost?

 

The watchmakers collet looks more like a Stanley (other makes are available) standard 3 jaw hand tightened chuck, more often seen on hand drills.  They are not precision built and the 'run out'  is quite impressive, so trying to turn something might be rather entertaining if you wanted something that was truly parallel  and not slightly tapered.

 

One of the problems with lathes/mills/routers and any other machine tool is the exponential cost of the accessories. The add ons you will find you require are not cheap.

 

My advice as always is to think twice before you buy once.

 

When I first started, I made some duff purchases, because they were at the right price.

 

But why were these purchases duff?

 

Because the various machines I bought had no compatibility, and if you intend to machine components, then interoperability between machines will save you a fortune.

 

For instance being able to swap out a collet holder between lathe and mill will save you quite a bit of money, until you can afford to purchase a separate collet chuck for the lathe.  The same goes for other accessories.

 

If you can, when you are looking at lathes, try and get one which the chuck screws onto the headstock spindle and is not bolted to a faceplate.  I hate changing chucks so much, because it took so much time, with all the fiddly bolts etc, that I ended up getting a second lathe! 

 

If I were in the USA and was looking for a good small machine system I'd go to Sherline.  they are not cheap, but do offer a very comprehensive range with the ability to upgrade and, of course, with cross range compatibility:

 

https://www.sherline.com/

 

 

But, and there is always a but, Sherline's interoperability does not extend outside their range.  like Emco (Unimat) they want to tie their customers into their product.  And with this comes a cost as their parts can be slightly more expensive.

 

So look at what you want to do now, and then look at what you are likely to want to be doing in the future and buy appropriately.

 

(I use ER Collets as they are the most widely used, but collets are a subject all of their own!)

You have made my point exactly. For a novice who doesn't understand the skills OR the tools, the best course is to seek informed advice and on that basis, spend a moderate sum on a reasonably new, fully functional spread. Then apply yourself to learning good technique. 

 

We've already HAD the BL mogul story. 

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

9 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 Then apply yourself to learning good technique. 

 

 

 

 

From my experience, being able to use any tool well is about 10% knowledge and 90% practice.

 

This is particularly important with parachutes.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Happy Hippo

[DenysW]

As Canal Digger got no response to that Great Bear post, I give you ( warning) a foreign green pannier tank: the Saxon D XV, modelled by Trix. An 0-6-6-0, with slinky low-line tanks by the look of it. And yes, failed to be maintainable.

 

[rockershovel]

7 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

From my experience, being able to use any tool well is about 10% knowledge and 90% practice.

 

This is particularly important with parachutes.

Agreed; but I refer you to a common problem in music sessions, the self-taught player with thoroughly rehearsed, basic mistakes (usually wobbly timing or the inability to identify the correct key).

 

I agree that this probably doesn't tend to be a problem with parachutist.