The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

I was about to reply to HH's post concerning scale fidelity and modelling compromises with the smug retort that modelling as I do in S7 and building a Midland MPD of scale length (or rather scale length for the trackplan on which the layout is based) with scale pointwork, sleeper spacing etc. when I realised that I have still had to make significant compromises. When locomotives pull up to the coaling stage, there are no men to wheel the coal tubs out and fill the tender; similarly when alongside a water crane there is no fireman to put the bag in the tank (and even if there was, the tank filler won't open); when an engine is on the turntable the crew don't get down from the footplate, unlock the table, extend the pushbars, push the engine round and lock the table again; when an engine is over the ashpit etc. etc. Fortunately I don't have to bother with workong signals, vacuum pipe connections and the like but even so when my points change the adjacent hand levers don't move and so on. I suppopse that what I am producing is a diorama that as long as nothing is moving could be taken as a 3D depiction of a Midland MPD circa 1906. Oh, but I nearly forgot, the likelihood of the locomotive collection I have being seen in the same place at the same time is vanishingly small - they are simply models of engines that I like and wanted to build.

 

I guess that unless we try to do what Tony Wright has done with Little Bytham but in S4 and with even the goods trains being modelled on real formations, we are stuck with compromises all over the place but that doesn't stop me from admiring many a layout in allsorts of scales, be they S4, S7, 00, N or whatever, and getting a lot of pleasure from making my own flawed creation. At the end of the day, thank the good lord for rule 1!

 

Dave

 

 

[jamie92208]

I have a potential compromise, that had arisen on LGA.  There are already many.  I bought a lovely model of a Kirtley 0-6-0, double framed goods loco from a friend.  It is well made and painted and lined in thevpre 1907 livery. It's numbered 924 in brass numerals. It's also chipped but diesn't want to come to life on DCC.  my layout is set in 1923 ish so it is wrong for the layout. The loco was shedded at Kettering after renumbering. The quandary is whether to repaint it and renumber it as one of Lancasters own locos post 1920, or to leave a lively looking model as it is. I do already have a Baldwin 2-6-0 that was withdrawn in 1915. I already have a viaduct missing 7 of it's 11 soans, a curve at one end of the platform that should be staight, a goods shed that's one bay short plus a view of Inglebourough on the backscene.  The goods yard is also 10 feet too short and 2 sidings are missing.

 

Jamie

[TheQ]

On 11/01/2022 at 21:52, Dave Hunt said:

My RAF number ended with 005. I should have been 007 but the two guys in front of me were called out of the line for some reason.

 

Dave 

The two people I knew in the RAF with the last 3 of 007 were both surnamed Bond... and they were both, James  Bond, they were both in the same section too, so one got called jimmy..

[polybear]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I know there are some who will  have a fully interlocked lever frame in their signal box, and others who will insist on the correct lamps always being displayed on locos, brake vans and the tail of a passenger train, but there must come a point at which one must say I don't care!

 

So I suppose the question to you all is what compromises are you prepared to accept?

 

 

Please, no Bell Codes......

[Happy Hippo]

25 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Please, no Bell Codes......

[BoD]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

So I suppose the question to you all is what compromises are you prepared to accept?

I started to build my layout Crianlarich intending that it be as accurate as possible but from the very first I was faced with all sorts of compromises.  Space available forced compromise/compression of track plan which leads to compromise of train lengths.  It is not a case of being prepared to put up with them but having no option.  Having said that I am happy that the layout is starting to give, to me at least, a feel of the West Highland Line. For me that is possibly as important as 100% accuracy.

 

Plus Hornby have just given me a ‘get out of jail free card’.  I am now building a layout inspired by Crianlarich.

[TheQ]

I built a shed 53ft long by up to 16ft wide.. For an EM gauge  layout.. Even then both stations have had to have had some compression and one of the two towns only had a population of 542 when the station  was built..

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I knew a PC 7, and PC 1 was dinger Bell.  The obe that e ero e knew was 1001.  When paradi g for football duty in the gym at Elland Road, as our numbers were called out, when 1001 was called the who.e parade would chime in with the corre t line from the advert fot the eponymous cleaner.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

45 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I knew a PC 7, and PC 1 was dinger Bell.  The obe that e ero e knew was 1001.  When paradi g for football duty in the gym at Elland Road, as our numbers were called out, when 1001 was called the who.e parade would chime in with the corre t line from the advert fot the eponymous cleaner.

 

Jamie

I'll bet you were paid more than half a crown for your activities that afternoon!

 

For BoD:  the last time I was up in Scotland, I went to Crianlarich for a nose around.  We parked in the old woodyard and had lunch in the cafe that was on the platform:  It was very good.

 

Nyda sat and read a book whilst I had a good nose around.  Whilst we were there there was a partial crossing of trains.

 

The Oban bound train having to wait until the Fort William to Glasgow train had cleared the single line section.  The driver of the Oban bound train had been working the line for some years and pointed out that  prior to the rationalisation of the track layout, would not have required to enter the single line section to go to Oban as the junction at the North end would have allowed separate arrivals and departures.  Once the Glasgow had arrived, he showed how he communicated with the various signalmen to gain clearance to enter the single line section using the RETB system. 

 

Obviously what I call an old fashioned railwayman. Friendly, took a pride in his work and very happy to explain the intricacies of his job.

 

After the trains had departed we went down to  the site of the lower station, and after a bit of nosing around found a small bridge over a culvert.  If you didn't know a railway had once been there, you would not have realised it.

 

I can understand why you are now building something 'inspired by Crianlarich' as an absolute scale model would take up a huge amount of space.

 

I'll admit to a soft spot for the West Highland Line, thanks to the writings of the likes of Ian Futers and Gary (Hanson?) of the Cradley Heath MRC who modelled 'Glenuig' in EM: 

 

 

 

 

I could easily have been tempted to do something similar; Even down to the Class 26 and Class 27 Sulzers, although it would have been a through station.  A West highland version of Georgemas Junction perhaps?

 

The truth is I could model in many different scales, gauges and locations if I were given unlimited time, space and funding.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Happy Hippo

[jamie92208]

My late friend, Peter Marshall modelled Crianlarich in 00 and made a good job of it. I have some photos somewhere. The layout went to Dave Tanner of South Greenfield memory and I believe that he still has it.

 

As to payment by Elland Road, I have no interest in football but 5.5 hrs at time and a half on rest days came in very handy when the kids were young (3 under 5) i used to do as many matches as I could but was happy to sit in the cash office on gaurd rather than freeze on the touchline.

 

Jamie

Edited January 13, 2022 by jamie92208

[TheQ]

Been through Crianlarich many times, but never had time to stop, I had the Oban Ferry to the outer Isles to catch.. or head somewhere from..

Followed the snowblower through one year, I was driving the first car through in 3 days....

[woodenhead]

My only memory of visiting Crianlarich is spiders, all over the walls and ceiling of the bed and breakfast bedroom, and my mother killing them one by one with a shoe.

[BoD]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I'll admit to a soft spot for the West Highland Line, thanks to the writings of the likes of Ian Futers and Gary (Hanson?) of the Cradley Heath MRC who modelled 'Glenuig' in EM: 

 

A very interesting post HH.

 

Strangely enough, in my original plans both northbound lines would simply return to a fiddle yard but as I diverged more and more from the original one of the branches led to an imaginary terminus which was based very much on Glenuig.  So I am now working on a two part layout one part  'inspired' by the prototype the other entirely fictitious but still true to WHL structure, stock and architecture.

 

Back to your original post one compromise I have not made is that anything included in the layout - from buildings to railway infrastructure to rolling stock - must be based on the real WHL  - and can be backed up by photographic/written evidence.  

 

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I could easily have been tempted to do something similar; Even down to the Class 26 and Class 27 Sulzers,

 

You want Sulzers?

Recently renumbered and ready for the weathering shop.

 

 

I hope that this is allowed here?

Edited January 13, 2022 by BoD

[BoD]

20 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

My only memory of visiting Crianlarich is spiders, all over the walls and ceiling of the bed and breakfast bedroom, and my mother killing them one by one with a shoe.

 

I cant decide whether to click on supportive or funny... so have one of each.

[PhilJ W]

21 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

My only memory of visiting Crianlarich is spiders, all over the walls and ceiling of the bed and breakfast bedroom, and my mother killing them one by one with a shoe.

I never kill spiders and try to avoid killing them accidently. They do a good job of clearing up the real nasties such as flies.

[woodenhead]

Just now, PhilJ W said:

I never kill spiders and try to avoid killing them accidently. They do a good job of clearing up the real nasties such as flies.

There comes a point where when you multiple the number of spiders and spiders legs and you get a number in the thousands, at that point co-existence in the same space is an impossibility and culling is the only option.

 

Ps this was in the mid 1970s and I was a nipper.

[Northmoor]

For nearly a year and a half I lived in Dunfermline and on two evenings, Crianlarich was my destination for a motorbike ride after finishing work.  In mid-summer it was broad daylight until after 10pm, so made for excellent riding.  Across via Alloa to Bridge of Allan, Callander (where my Mum went to school, by train), Crianlarich, A82 to Balloch (stop for chips), back across to Stirling in the shadow of the Fintry hills, back to Dunfermline.  160 miles in four hours, including several stops to admire the view.  I still miss being able to do that, you just can't get as far in the evening in SE England, all the other traffic gets in the way.

 

To answer the exam question, I think you answered it yourself.  Never compromise on what you want a model of, only how you represent it.  There's no point building a small BLT if you're interested in main lines; you'll never be inspired to finish the build.  You just have to "cut your cloth" as it were.  Although if you insist you want to model Clapham Junction in Gauge 1, without any selective compression, you're going to need somewhere big to build it - like Clapham Junction........

Edited January 13, 2022 by Northmoor

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, BoD said:

 

A very interesting post HH.

 

Strangely enough, in my original plans both northbound lines would simply return to a fiddle yard but as I diverged more and more from the original one of the branches led to an imaginary terminus which was based very much on Glenuig.  So I am now working on a two part layout one part  'inspired' by the prototype the other entirely fictitious but still true to WHL structure, stock and architecture.

 

Back to your original post one compromise I have not made is that anything included in the layout - from buildings to railway infrastructure to rolling stock - must be based on the real WHL  - and can be backed up by photographic/written evidence.  

 

 

You want Sulzers?

Recently renumbered and ready for the weathering shop.

 

 

I hope that this is allowed here?

We have no restrictions on postings regarding trains.

 

Please stop posting Sulzers or else I will have to post a picture of my favourite...

 

A Heljan Class 26 in Engineer's Dutch Livery!

 

My version is in 4mm scale and has no real place in my line up apart from the fact I really like it...

 

And that is justification enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[br2975]

3 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I knew a PC 7, and PC 1 was dinger Bell.  The obe that e ero e knew was 1001.  When paradi g for football duty in the gym at Elland Road, as our numbers were called out, when 1001 was called the who.e parade would chime in with the corre t line from the advert fot the eponymous cleaner.

 

Jamie

 

In South Wales, at Canton, I worked alongside "The Owl Man" - PC.2820 who answered the telephone "Canton - two, eight, two, oh !"

.

At Ely, I worked with PC. 20, aka Cedric Morgan who would answer the telephone "Ely, PC. Morgan......Large M, small organ !"

.

I also worked with 'The Devil' whose number was PC.666

.

An officer on my initial course, was allocated the number 2978, which I'm glad I didn't get, as it was my wedding date !

.

We also had an array of nicknames

eg

"The Seal Pup"............. when you met him, you felt like clubbing him to death.

"Kingsway" ...................because the biggest public toilet (sh*thouse) in Cardiff was underneath Kingsway.

"The surf board"..........because he was long, thick and had to be carried

"Elastic man"................linked to the station by an invisible length of elastic that pulled him back in once he'd walked half a mile.

"Lard Head".................due to the amount of grease he used on his slicked back hair.

"Little Lard Head".......his son.

"The Laptop"...............A short officer, who was "a small PC"

.

I could go on, but sensitivities must be considered.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by br2975

[petethemole]

I stayed at Crianlarich Youth Hostel in 1964 on the last night of a cycling holiday.  I had a walk round the village in the evening, visiting both stations and I bought the first issue of the new SUN newspaper, rebranded from the Daily Herald and long before Murdoch. 

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, br2975 said:

 

In South Wales, at Canton, I worked alongside "The Owl Man" - PC.2820 who answered the telephone "Canton - two, eight, two, oh !"

.

At Ely, I worked with PC. 20, aka Cedric Morgan who would answer the telephone "Ely, PC. Morgan......Large M, small organ !"

.

I also worked with 'The Devil' whose number was PC.666

.

An officer on my initial course, was allocated the number 2978, which I'm glad I didn't get, as it was my wedding date !

.

We also had an array of nicknames

eg

"The Seal Pup"............. when you met him, you felt like clubbing him to death.

"Kingsway" ...................because the biggest public toilet (sh*thouse) in Cardiff was underneath Kingsway.

"The surf board"..........because he was long, thick and had to be carried

"Elastic man"................linked to the station by an invisible length of elastic that pulled him back in once he'd walked half a mile.

"Lard Head".................due to the amount of grease he used on his slicked back hair.

"Little Lard Head".......his son.

"The Laptop"...............A short officer, who was "a small PC"

.

I could go on, but sensitivities must be considered.

 

 

 

We had many similar ones.

 

The Olympic torch,  she never went out.

Wing Nut.  With big ears.

The human vacuum cleaner,  i won't enlarge on how she got that nickname.

Ernie, he had been a milkman

TC, she thought it meant Top Cat, it actually meant Two Chairs as she was rather wide.

Junction 33.  The Knottingley turn off.

 

And of course we could go on.  The other thing was peopke whose names were totally inappropriate.  A lad called Moderate who had a rather short temper.

 

Happy days.

 

As to Crianlarich, the first time I went there was summer 1967. We had driven up from Perth folliwing the Callendar and Oban and there were still tracks running back under the viaduct forva short distance full of empty timber wagons.

 

Jamie

 

 

 

[br2975]

16 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

We had many similar ones.

 

The Olympic torch,  she never went out.

.

The human vacuum cleaner,  i won't enlarge on how she got that nickname.

 

"Olympic torch" = "Station Cat" in South Wales.

.

We also had a female officer who was christened Franz Klammer - as she was once discovered impersonating the famous downhill skiier, using two firemen as her poles..........

She once told me on a driving course "You'd like my SISTER, shes' a bit of a girl !"

.

Alas, those days are long gone.

[simontaylor484]

@br2975 The Ark Royal was the first ship kit I built, it went together fairly well but I remember struggling with the aircraft with my fat fingers and the "aerials" that come out of the side just below the flight deck I kept snagging them o  my sleeves as I was painting it 

[jamie92208]

20 minutes ago, simontaylor484 said:

@br2975 The Ark Royal was the first ship kit I built, it went together fairly well but I remember struggling with the aircraft with my fat fingers and the "aerials" that come out of the side just below the flight deck I kept snagging them o  my sleeves as I was painting it 

Funnily enough I've got Revell kits for both Ark Roya (ww2 version) and Graf Zeppelin, sitting on the shelf of shame.

 

Jamie

Edited January 13, 2022 by jamie92208

[Canal Digger]

9 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

So I suppose the question to you all is what compromises are you prepared to accept?

OK, below what scale is modelling point rodding with GEM levers impractical? 12inch/ ft?