The Night Mail

[DenysW]

I impulse-bought a biscuit-jointer from Aldi a few years back to make wooden planters. It lasted well and did the job. So did the planters. Only concern was replacement blades. It was probably 1/5th the price of a conventional brand, so worth the risk.

 

I detest table saws after an uncle-in-law sliced a couple of fingers off using one and I'd always go for the radial-arm alternative - so much easier to see where the blade is.

[Happy Hippo]

If one is going to buy a table saw, then this is one of the woodworking tools on which you do not want to skimp and save.

 

My definition of a table saw is a freestanding table into which a saw is placed protruding through the table top.  Most advertised 'table saws' are really bench top or work site saws, which are designed to be portable and taken onto building sites.  The former will be far more accurate than the latter.

 

The first question is:

 

What do you want it for?

 

They are generally used for ripping long boards into thinner sections or for cutting sheet materiel:  However to do so safely with the latter, especially if you are working single handed on your own, you need both an in and out table before and after the saw.

 

Avoid cheaper marques as they have a stamped steel table which although may be flat, the mitre slots are horrendous as the sides are not quite parallel.  this means that the mitre block is fitted with an undersize sled which rattles down the slot bouncing from side to side.  This is not good if you are trying t make consistent cross cuts.  Ideally  you want a cast iron bed on the machine, although some of the mid range machines will have a cast aluminium  bed: These are not too bad. 

 

The other real disadvantage with the sheet steel bed is that probably will have slight alignment issues with the saw itself.  the motor and blade unit has to be secured to the underside and it is possible that the saw will not be sitting perfectly perpendicular to the front edge of the bed. (All three of mine were like this.)  since the front face of the bed is the point at which the rip fence is aligned, and should be parallel to the  blade, you start having problems.  If the fence is of poor construction, then it is likely that it will also not be at right angles to the guide, so the alignment becomes worse with the blade and fence either squeezing together at the back of the saw or splaying apart.  These are only a degree or so, but over a long cut you can end up with a distinct difference between one end of the timber to the other.

 

These problems are not insurmountable, but are not the sort of issue that someone who is just starting out wants to have to sort out.

 

The table saw also needs to have a blade guard that is not attached to the riving knife.  The knife is essential as it prevents timber from closing back together as it passes either side of the blade, but if the guard is fitted to the knife, it prevents you making a slot cut, rather than a through cut.  It will also prevent you moving the fence close to the blade, which is very awkward when you want to make very thin cuts.  I keep mine on where possible, but will remove the blade guard if I feel that it's presence is more of a hindrance, and therefore compromises safety, rather than as a help.

 

Use of a push stick and push block are essential.  When you are handling large bits of timber all is well, but as soon as you fingers get within a palm width of the blade, you will lose fingers if you don't have them well clear of the twirly bits. My table saw has a tilting blade, so I can make angles cuts and it has a very handy bright yellow insert that fits around the blade.  Once my fingers get close, to that 'yellow zone' I switch to the sticks and blocks.

 

If you aren't going to be into cutting huge swathes of timber you might be better off investing in the likes of the Proxxon 

 

https://www.axminstertools.com/proxxon-fet-table-saw-210576

 

I have one and for miniature work they are superb.

 

I'll stop there.

 

 

 

 

[BoD]

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Currently, on my shopping list are:

…
Thought? Ideas? Suggestions?

A first aid kit?

Edited January 18, 2022 by BoD

[AndyID]

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Following on to a post made earlier today on ER, in which I confessed to watching woodworking videos on YouTube, this in turn means that I’ve started eyeing up (and in some cases - buying) inexpensive woodworking gear from Parkside (Lidl), Einhell and the like.

 

As practical folk on TNM, do you have any thoughts/recommendations regarding Parkside, Einhell and other budget gear (Lidl will be offering a portable table saw next Monday and I’m wondering should I/shouldn’t I?). It doesn't have to be Parkside (Lidl), Workzone (Aldi) or Einhell (most anywhere), but it should be reasonably priced.

 

At the moment, I'm buying inexpensive kit to see how much use I'll get out of it. If it gets a lot of use I'll upgrade to Makita, DeWalt, Bosch or another reputable brand.

 

Currently, on my shopping list are:

• A band-saw
• A nail gun (not air powered)
• A crosscut/mitre saw (possibly)
• Guide rails for my circular saw
• Table saw

Thought? Ideas? Suggestions?

 

I'm on my second bandsaw. The first one was cheap junk. I replaced it with one from Sears (Craftsman) and it the Parkside one looks very similar. I can't tell if it has ball-race blade guides or not. If it does not, I would not buy it. I think the most important element of a band saw is the rigidity of the frame. It must not flex or vibrate under load.

 

I also have a pretty good Craftsman table saw but I don't use it much. Unless you are going to rip a lot of large sheets of ply etc you might not need a table saw. You can get similar results with a rip blade in a bandsaw. And if you are going to slice up large sheets of material you really need to incorporate a table saw into a large surface to support the material properly.

 

The other snag with the table saw is it's extremely loud. For occasional sawing of large sheets you might do as well with a hand held circular saw and guide rails.

 

I also have a chop/miter saw which is great for constructing framing etc from standard lumber. Mine has the smaller and much less expensive blades but it can still cut large lumber because the saw is mounted on slides. IIRC the blades for the chop saw are 8 inch diameter whereas the table saw has 10 inch blades.

[Happy Hippo]

I would not use a bandsaw for ripping long lengths of wood unless you have a decent sized in and out table at either end of the bandsaw.

 

Trying to feed a long length of timber into a bandsaw is going to be difficult with the timber tilting up as you try to feed in and then dropping down off the end of the bed of the bandsaw as you get past the balance point of the timber.

 

Basically it's a recipe for losing control of the timber and ruining the cut, plus the potential for injury (not necessarily one involving cuts from the blade.

 

When I did my timber machining safety course many years back, it was one technique (of many) that was 'discouraged'.

 

Regarding the cutting of sheet materiel:  I don't use my table saw for this anymore since acquiring a tracksaw.  In the past I've also had some success using a jig saw with a guide rail.

 

The secret to cutting sheet materiel is using plenty of support, and this includes the piece of timber that is being removed.  It doesn't want to sag down behind the cutting blade as it will start to twist towards the cut and close the gap up.

 

If you get a mitre saw, be careful setting when setting stops for repetitive cuts.  As the saw is lifted out at the end of the cut, it can pull a short piece of wood with it (between the stop and the blade) and throw it back in your general direction.

 

A lot of this sounds like more and even more doom and gloom, but it is advice gleaned from years of watching idiots trying to do themselves serious damage by underestimating the potential of the machine whilst simultaneously overestimating their competence as an operator.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Happy Hippo

[DenysW]

I agree with HH completely. My preference for radial-arm saws is 100% safety driven - I suspect from a quality-of-cut point of view they make him shudder. And I'd never try to use one to rip a long length of timber. Reproducible trimming and mitring was my need.

 

I've never been brave enough to acquire a router table - same concerns about not being able to see the cutter.

[Happy Hippo]

2 minutes ago, DenysW said:

I agree with HH completely. My preference for radial-arm saws is 100% safety driven - I suspect from a quality-of-cut point of view they make him shudder. And I'd never try to use one to rip a long length of timber. Reproducible trimming and mitring was my need.

 

I've never been brave enough to acquire a router table - same concerns about not being able to see the cutter.

Nothing wrong with the quality of cut from such a saw.  If you have a mitre facility on one so much the better.  They are  specifically designed to cross cut timber and they do it very well.  You can do short rip cuts along the grain as well providing everything is well supported.  My mitre saw has a short radial arm facility. It's an older version of one like this:

 

 

Router tables are fine as long as you remember that once you get within a certain distance of the cutter, make sure you are using  push sticks and blocks to create a safety zone around the sharp bits.

 

I would really like a good router table with a proper lifting mechanism, rather than the table with a hand router bolted to the underside.  Trying to set he height accurately without some form of fine feed is a nightmare. 

 

 

Sadly I'm short of the nearly £1k needed to get it, due to buying pannier tanks.

[polybear]

32 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

 

 

Bear used one of these (a different make - and not one of the "Big Name" brands, but not cheapo junk - to cut the pre-finished/painted kitchen unit coving, plinth pelmet.  Using a decent TCT blade with lots of teeth (80-ish) there wasn't a chip in the paint anywhere.  Happy Bear.

[Gwiwer]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

Sadly I'm short of the nearly £1k needed to get it, due to buying pannier tanks.

 I would happily give a home to such a thing and would make good use of it.  But I lack the space required - or indeed any sort of space at all - and that has nothing to do with my ownership of just two pannier tanks   

[AndyID]

3 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I would not use a bandsaw for ripping long lengths of wood unless you have a decent sized in and out table at either end of the bandsaw.

 

 

Yes, I only use it for shortish lengths. Probably no more than three feet. Any longer than that I will use the table saw. Unless you have an extra pair of hands there is a similar support issue with a table saw. I should probably invest in a pair of those adjustable height stands with rollers on top. Or I suppose I could even make them. There's enough bits of metal here and I do have a welder. (Come to think of it I have three but it's a long story.)

[AndyID]

Woodwork is fine, but if you plan to do any serious metal torturing, get a metal-cutting bandsaw. I bought an inexpensive import model yonks ago for around $100 and I use it all the time. It slices through solid cold-rolled steel bar in no time at all and I can also use it as a vertical bandsaw on sheet metal.

[AndyID]

6 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

I'm on my second bandsaw. The first one was cheap junk. I replaced it with one from Sears (Craftsman) and it the Parkside one looks very similar. I can't tell if it has ball-race blade guides or not. If it does not, I would not buy it. I think the most important element of a band saw is the rigidity of the frame. It must not flex or vibrate under load.

 

I also have a pretty good Craftsman table saw but I don't use it much. Unless you are going to rip a lot of large sheets of ply etc you might not need a table saw. You can get similar results with a rip blade in a bandsaw. And if you are going to slice up large sheets of material you really need to incorporate a table saw into a large surface to support the material properly.

 

The other snag with the table saw is it's extremely loud. For occasional sawing of large sheets you might do as well with a hand held circular saw and guide rails.

 

I also have a chop/miter saw which is great for constructing framing etc from standard lumber. Mine has the smaller and much less expensive blades but it can still cut large lumber because the saw is mounted on slides. IIRC the blades for the chop saw are 8 inch diameter whereas the table saw has 10 inch blades.

 

Here's the bandsaw.

 

 

Internal plumbing.

 

 

The important ball bearing guides - six in all. Three top and three bottom.

 

[AndyID]

4 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Nothing wrong with the quality of cut from such a saw.  If you have a mitre facility on one so much the better.  They are  specifically designed to cross cut timber and they do it very well.  You can do short rip cuts along the grain as well providing everything is well supported.  My mitre saw has a short radial arm facility. It's an older version of one like this:

 

 

Router tables are fine as long as you remember that once you get within a certain distance of the cutter, make sure you are using  push sticks and blocks to create a safety zone around the sharp bits.

 

I would really like a good router table with a proper lifting mechanism, rather than the table with a hand router bolted to the underside.  Trying to set he height accurately without some form of fine feed is a nightmare. 

 

 

Sadly I'm short of the nearly £1k needed to get it, due to buying pannier tanks.

 

And here's the miter saw. Looks like somebody has been doing a fair bit of "value engineering" on that Evolution version

 

 

[J. S. Bach]

14 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

 ...snip... Guide rails for my circular saw

Thought? Ideas? Suggestions?

Start with the guide rails.

[J. S. Bach]

5 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

 ...snip... Sadly I'm short of the nearly £1k needed to get it, due to buying pannier tanks.

 

3 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

  ...snip... and that has nothing to do with my ownership of just two pannier tanks   

I only own one green pannier and one black saddle-tanker so I have absolutely no excuse.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Evening all,

 

Problems were solved and changes were made.

 

 

I ended up taking off all the wheels and boring the ID of the axles hub out to 1/4 inch and then I installed a brass bushing to help with running concentrically. It kind of worked, they aren't 100% dead on but much better than before. They are also within gauge tolerances now, or at least as far as i can get them. As there is only about 400 ft of surviving gauge 2 track in the world i'm not to worried.

 

I also made the decision to paint the engine in North British Railway livery as I was unsure about the upkeep the bare metal finish would require but more so I really like it. The lining isn't quite done yet but it was good enough for a photo. 

 

 

(that is a very cruel photo)

 

You may have noticed that the coupling rods are missing. The new bushing takes up the new hole I drilled for crank pins as the bosses I spec'd to Andy were 2mm oversize and I'm pretty sure if I  put a rod end on them they would foul the side valances. So this requires some thought. Of course the engine could run as a single driver but that would be very disappointing. And there's also the problem of my not being able to remove the wheels with any real ease, so this needs some thought. Suggestions very welcome.

 

Douglas

[AndyID]

History is important (or at least entertaining). MrsID and I are rapidly approaching our 50th. A couple of pics from '72 in Seefeld, Austria.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Oddly enough we have not changed in the slightest. (OK, so my jeans are now a 34" waist, but.............

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by AndyID
nonsense

[AndyID]

I know. It's hard to imagine how anyone could possibly resist me.

 

[iL Dottore]

My thanks to all for such useful and informative feedback. So for the moment I’ll just set my sights on guide rails for my circular saw and a decent nail gun (any suggestions as to a decent electric nail gun?) - which should cover most of my woodworking needs (part of the reason for these acquisitions is that I want to build a decent router table - but it can wait)

 

i note that in @AndyID 70s polaroid (I’m assuming it’s a polaroid due to shape and colours) his lower legs are (conveniently?) obscured - leading to the somewhat impertinent question: are those polyester bell-bottom jeans?

  

Rest assured it is not a criticism, but rather a commiseration - I too committed “crimes against fashion” in the 70s* - for which I am truly, sincerely, guilt-riddenly, repentful…

 

* a polyester chocolate brown three piece suit - with flares! There - got it off my chest!

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by iL Dottore

[br2975]

"And now for something completely different......"

.

My son and his colleagues playing football on pack ice, at 84'N

.

The players required  "security" measures, in the form of three other crew members, with rifles.

.

There was a fear of a pitch invasion, by polar bears !

[PhilJ W]

The 70's, the decade that fashion forgot, or is it the decade that fashion tries to forget? I likewise committed crimes against fashion in that era. I'll have to find some of the pics taken on my Greek holiday in the late 70's. 

[Winslow Boy]

6 hours ago, AndyID said:

History is important (or at least entertaining). MrsID and I are rapidly approaching our 50th. A couple of pics from '72 in Seefeld, Austria.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Oddly enough we have not changed in the slightest. (OK, so my jeans are now a 34" waist, but.............

 

 

 

 

I have tried to work out the significance of the dead tree that you appear to be propping up. Is it a large piece of fire wood that you are proudly showing off, prior to stripping off your shirt to reveal your rippling muscled torso aka Mr Putin and then attacking it with an axe so as to impress the memsahib.

 

Speaking of the memsahib she does have a passing resemblance to a Tyrellian chalet maid. Are you sure these are the correct photos?

[bbishop]

25 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The 70's, the decade that fashion forgot, or is it the decade that fashion tries to forget? I likewise committed crimes against fashion in that era. I'll have to find some of the pics taken on my Greek holiday in the late 70's. 

Phil, will these include the a-fashionable lass on the Club 18-30 holiday?  Bill

[Happy Hippo]

Again, another change of subject, but those that follow 'Royal' news might have read that, 'unlike other Veterans'. Princes Andrew and Harry will not be receiving the Queen's Platinum Jubilee Medal.

 

Messrs Hunt and Ough* would have been delighted to have received such an accolade after our many years of loyal service, but I don't believe the press.

 

Although it was originally mooted that Veterans would receive such, the MoD very quickly, and if I may say so rather mean spiritedly,  watered down the eligibility to those who had served in the military a minimum of five years, up to and including Feb 2022.

 

Anyone retired before that date are ineligible:  However, it would appear that you can buy one!

 

I'm going to enjoy going around the next parade I attend saying: 'You bought that, you bought that....'

 

Still I've got my GC (Gobbling Cake), the DFC (Destroyer of Flans and Croissants)  MC (Marzipan Coveter) and the DCM (Distinguished Cake Munching)  plus many other bars to these awards for repeated bravery during the heroic destruction of cakes, pastries and biscuits in the face of falling crumbs.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Happy Hippo
*I forget The Q in my rush to go to press.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, bbishop said:

Phil, will these include the a-fashionable lass on the Club 18-30 holiday?  Bill

Yes and no, Boots refused to print them.