The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

A bit of scribbling on the back of a scrap piece of paper this morning.

 

I was attempting to visualise the new track plan.

 

Initially there was not much luck in getting it to fit end to end in the garage.  A diagonal across the garage was out of the question due to the placement of the new shelving.

 

Of course, eventually the penny dropped.

 

As it is a double garage there is nothing to stop me having the fiddle yard at right angles to the main boards, so I now have al 'L' shaped scheme to consider.

 

The sketch (nts) shows the general idea, and it can be seen as very similar to my original Rhech Capel Junction idea from earlier in the year.

 

The original RCJ would just about have fitted into the garage, but the addition of the curved section allows the other end of the loop and the second branch connection where the branch physically separates from the main to be modelled.

 

Another change from the original plan was to have the  'main line' as one which has been  singled.

 

No halt platform as yet.  One may be there as grassy remains.  It really depends on how everything shapes up and whether there is enough space.

 

The 'L' of the cassette table could be fitted to protrude out the other side allowing the whole model to be operated from the other side in the corner of a room if required. The DCC points could be mirrored on the other side of the board and the control panel could also be detachable and placed on the other side if required.  Of course that might be fanciful thinking, but is well worth planning into the design at the beginning rather than having to bodge up something later on.

 

 

 

 

[jamie92208]

It looks OK to me.  I would suggest having other old stuff around such as a water column and possibly a little coaling stage somewhere though out of use.  I think I've got a photo of a decaying sleeper built buffer stop somewhere.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

I think a water tank as well as at least one water column .

 

I deliberately left the scenic aspect off at present.

 

Using foam as the baseboard does allow some quite dramatic changes of level and I'd quite like some form of river to run through from the corner board on the diagonal across to the front.

 

Of course too much vertical height will make for a bigger storage cube when it is packed away.

 

I'd quite like an island platform with a footbridge from the top of a retaining wall to access it.

 

It's going to require a bit of careful planning and I'm going to farm out the scale track plan to Templot.

 

It might end up as freight only as at present I can envisage a sea of signals if I'm not careful and backdate it too far.

[jamie92208]

23 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I think a water tank as well as at least one water column .

 

I deliberately left the scenic aspect off at present.

 

Using foam as the baseboard does allow some quite dramatic changes of level and I'd quite like some form of river to run through from the corner board on the diagonal across to the front.

 

Of course too much vertical height will make for a bigger storage cube when it is packed away.

 

I'd quite like an island platform with a footbridge from the top of a retaining wall to access it.

 

It's going to require a bit of careful planning and I'm going to farm out the scale track plan to Templot.

 

It might end up as freight only as at present I can envisage a sea of signals if I'm not careful and backdate it too far.

Let me know if you want any help with Templot.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

There is a trick I know that allows you to tie scenic items to the track plan. Then if you have to adjust the curve the item moves. I used it with my platform canopies.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

52 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

There is a trick I know that allows you to tie scenic items to the track plan. Then if you have to adjust the curve the item moves. I used it with my platform canopies.

 

Jamie

The overall track plan will remain, but it is likely that every thing will  now shift along to the left and then 'south' as I've just remeasured the garage and found that it is quite a bit wider than I remember.  I'll call it 17', (17' 6" actually) which means that the cassette table at the fiddle yard end can now become a permanent fixture and the overall width of the layout will increase to take advantage of this newly found additional space.

 

Alternatively, I could reverse the whole it becomes a mirror image and lies across the garage instead of along it's axis.

 

However it fits, marks are being put on the walls which will delineate where permanent cabinets and shelving will fit, and what has to be moveable.

 

Exciting times ahead it would seem.

 

I now have to redraw it all to accommodate the stretch.

 

A large glass of Pimms will help!

 

 

[Dave Hunt]

I like the concept HH and as far as possible passenger workings go I think that a few workmen's trains consisting of an auto coach and (shudder) a pannier tank could fit that bill? Or is the timescale too late? I realise that the late '60s wouldn't have seen such a sight but 1960?

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

30 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I like the concept HH and as far as possible passenger workings go I think that a few workmen's trains consisting of an auto coach and (shudder) a pannier tank could fit that bill? Or is the timescale too late? I realise that the late '60s wouldn't have seen such a sight but 1960?

 

Dave

With the additional length I've found, a pannier and 'B' set could easily fit into the scheme.  Especially as we could run 'through' services

 

Nothroader's comments about Aberflyarff should not be discounted as with this increase in  size, it is a possibility.

 

Brian (br2975) and I have drawn up a number of schematics of Aberflyarff  over the past few months that could also fit the bill if required, including  abnother complete reversal of how things were done and including both the line  up the valley was singled, and where all services now terminated on a truncated double track.

 

As I said to the Jamie, interesting times ahead.

 

Of course the first thing to do is make the space and carry out the demolitions to allow reconstruction.

 

You might be able to put your rail inspector's hat on and make independent reports as to the progress, once promotion and funding has been agreed.

 

 

[jamie92208]

38 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I like the concept HH and as far as possible passenger workings go I think that a few workmen's trains consisting of an auto coach and (shudder) a pannier tank could fit that bill? Or is the timescale too late? I realise that the late '60s wouldn't have seen such a sight but 1960?

 

Dave

He could have a former Midland Loco in I dustrial service doing shunting to provide a bit of class.

 

Jamie

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

He could have a former Midland Loco in I dustrial service doing shunting to provide a bit of class.

 

Jamie

Probably keep derailing on the point work as it's the wrong gauge.

 

Historically, the shed at Abercynon had a few L&NWR Coal Tanks on stock, which were loaned out to the various NCB collieries in preference to letting them get their grubby little mitts on a Pannier tank.

[Northroader]

Footbridge, island platform, and station on bridge and I think of Ynyshir, maybe trim the up line off, and have the centre line as twoway passenger and the right hand as goods plus shunt siding?

[Happy Hippo]

3 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

I like the concept HH and as far as possible passenger workings go I think that a few workmen's trains consisting of an auto coach and (shudder) a pannier tank could fit that bill? Or is the timescale too late? I realise that the late '60s wouldn't have seen such a sight but 1960?

 

Dave

Further to my earlier comment about the pannier and the 'B' Set, the Valleys passenger services had a radical overhaul in the 1950's with some 4575 locos being autofitted and drafted in for various services.  I believe they were introduced for what were known as interval services.  All changed in 1958 when the first of the  DMU's were drafted in (Class 116?) These took over virtually all scheduled passenger trains, although excursions and extras were still steam hauled.

 

Chrisf is my go to authority for such matters, and I'm sure that he'll be along to gently correct me if I've got it wrong.

 

Workman's trains which did not appear on the public timetable were a different kettle of fish and consisted of superannuated passenger stock, or in some cases, converted goods vans!

 

Brian did cover these trains way back in 2011 in the Standard Gauge Industrial Modelling section of RMW.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Happy Hippo

[Happy Hippo]

3 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Footbridge, island platform, and station on bridge and I think of Ynyshir, maybe trim the up line off, and have the centre line as twoway passenger and the right hand as goods plus shunt siding?

If you delete the platform that is at the front of the photo and call the left hand most line the exchange line, the centre line the loop and the rh line the main, you have what I was trying to achieve.

 

Any part of the bridge to the left of VIM, would cease to exist .

 

Nice TVR style diagonal boarding on the station building.

 

If that is Ynishir, then the line nearest the lh side is the down relief, the centre line is the down main and the rh line is the up main

[Northroader]

Mind, the Cardiff Valleys treated “up” as up, and “down” as down, unlike the GWR, so the Lynfi & Ogmore, or the Western Valleys used the opposite sense of up and down, I.e.from London. It was a carryover from pregroup days.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Northroader

[Dave Hunt]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

You might be able to put your rail inspector's hat on and make independent reports as to the progress, once promotion and funding has been agreed.

 

Since the Railway Inspectoratevhas traditionally been from the ranks of service officers and I know John Poyntz, I guess I could give it a go. I'll nip out and buy a bowler once you've started work.

 

If you have any trouble with planning permission, I can recommend a decent jewellers.

 

Dave

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

Probably keep derailing on the point work as it's the wrong gauge.

 

Historically, the shed at Abercynon had a few L&NWR Coal Tanks on stock, which were loaned out to the various NCB collieries in preference to letting them get their grubby little mitts on a Pannier tank.

 

 

I've got an OF Jinty doing nothing....

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

16 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Mind, the Cardiff Valleys treated “up” as up, and “down” as down, unlike the GWR, so the Lynfi & Ogmore, or the Western Valleys used the opposite sense of up and down, I.e.from London. It was a carryover from pregroup days.

There were a lot of down relief lines, but not so many up reliefs!

 

On the four track section between Walnut Tree Junction (Taffs Well) and Radyr it was not uncommon to have the down relief line nose to tail with coal trains under the permissive block method of working.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Happy Hippo

[Happy Hippo]

1 minute ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

I've got an OF Jinty doing nothing....

 

Dave

Situation normal for a Jinty.

[Dave Hunt]

1 minute ago, Happy Hippo said:

Situation normal for a Jinty.

 

There goes the first inspection then....

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

 

9 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

There goes the first inspection then....

 

Dave

Think of the saving I've just made in cake and whisky.

[Adam88]

20 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

and I know John Poyntz,

 

Sad;y that should be knew as he passed away recently.  Some top notch obits appeared in the Telegraph and a few other places.

[Happy Hippo]

I first met John when I was commissioned and sent to the Ordnance Depot at Antwerp.

 

He was responsible for the coordinating  with the Belgian authorities for the LSL's that came in and out of the docks.

[Dave Hunt]

17 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

Think of the saving I've just made in cake and whisky.

 

There goes the second inspection too....

 

 

11 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

 

Sad;y that should be knew as he passed away recently.  Some top notch obits appeared in the Telegraph and a few other places.

 

Sorry, that was an unfortunate typo, I meant knew. John was a great bloke and a few years ago we went on several outings to various European railway museums with a few other people. I recall sitting at a pavement table of a bar in Amsterdam with John one day when a bloke who overheard us talking tried to pick him up on a point and John retorted, "I'm sorry but this is a discussion among senior officers, so if you'll excuse us....." Exit third party in some confusion.

 

Dave

[br2975]

4 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

I like the concept HH and as far as possible passenger workings go I think that a few workmen's trains consisting of an auto coach and (shudder) a pannier tank could fit that bill? Or is the timescale too late? I realise that the late '60s wouldn't have seen such a sight but 1960?

 

Dave

The last 'workmen's' service running in South Wales, that I'm aware of was that which served the NCB Duffryn Rhondda Washery, located on the former R&SB just south-west of Cymmer Afan.

.

As late as 1966, certain workings of the Bridgend - Treherbert DMU service stopped at Cymmer (Afan) then disappeared down the remains of the R&SB for about a mile and a half to the washery..... at shift change times.

.

These workings didn't appear in the public timetable, and I found them by chance in a 1966  Cardiff Valleys DMU Diagrams booklet, care of ChrisF of this parish.

.

The nearby Cymmer Corrwg - Glyncorrwg-Glyncorrwg Colliery pannier propelled workmen's service had only ended some two years earlier ISTR.

.

So, if HH has a Class 121 'bubble car' this will suffice.

.

Brian R

Edited July 18, 2021 by br2975

[br2975]

Full signalling ?

OR

C2 working ? (post rationalisation)

.

Exit stage left, pursued by a Hippo.................