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4 minutes ago, Stubby47 said:

I quite like the 56xx class, but they never ran in the South West.  What was the reason for using those (0-6-2), instead of a 2-6-2 in South Wales?

In a nutshell, the pre grouping companies had all come to the conclusion that the 0-6-2T was the optimum loco for the coal workings in the Valleys.  The GWR created a standardised version. The initial batch were concentrated on Cathays shed, and were quickly redistibuted thoughout the S Wales sheds.  They did get to other parts of the system.

 

I would hazard a guess in that the furthest they worked in England was from Westbury, and anywhere else on the GWR system that would accept their Red route availability.  In Wales they were based as far west as Whitland.  At one point one was used for banking trains out of Knighton on the Central wales line but that would have been exceptional.

 

Their last stronghold was Croes Newydd, Wrexham, where 5605 and 6697 were probably the last two in steam in 1966. 

 

6697 is now a part of the GWS collection.

 

Their predecessors, usually rebuilt with Swindon accoutrements  remained a valuable part of the GWR/BR(W) fleet until they were culled in the early 1950's.

 

Two ex TVR  0-6-2T locos are still extant, one each of the 01 and 02 classes.

 

Nine 56/66xx locos are preserved.

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1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

There were a lot of early stations that were relocated once the railways got up and running properly.

 

My favourite name was Upper Boat on the old ex Cardiff railway.

 

I am sure the the sign for the disused station continued in existence long after the station had shut (1931).

 

Upper Boat station existed (albeit a ruin) until the middle 1970's. It now has a DiY store plonked on top. Northwards by 450 yards, and we arrive at where the Cardiff crossed over the Glamorgan Canal. The remaining west side abutment exists, and you can see it on the nearside as you travel up the A470. A further 500 yards, and you arrive at the abutments where the Cardiff crossed the River Taff. The south side abutment was removed about 1972-3, to make way for the A470. The north side is still in existence and is clearly visible from the norhtbound  A470. 

 

Returning quickly to Upper Boat, the bridge which spans the Cardiff still exists approx 300 yards south of the old station site. This was the upper limit of traffic for Nantgarw Colliery yard. 

 

Cheers,

Ian. 

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Right-ho - I'm happy to post under Research as that was what it was for - though I may not be able to give credit where credit is due as I just culled the picture without any additional notes - buqqer. The one lot are still pictures from a YouTube video - very informative as some show the launching of the steelwork of the viaduct from the Garth side over the Cardiff railway. To think that I thought steelwork launching was relatively modern!

 

I'll need to extract the pictures from an OpenOffice document, so I may be a little while .....................

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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Ah, while I think about it, I think Upper Boat takes its name from a ferry across the Taff that once existed there.

 

I lived in Tonteg from 1976 to '82 (hence my Saturday commute above) and I was quite surprised when I discovered a whole load of railway infrastructure just behind our estate. All swept away now by the new A473 bypassing Tonteg, Church Village etc using mainly the old railway alignment.

 

There were also some concrete-filled cast iron columns standing in the river bed at Rhydyfelin where the Cardiff Railway crossed the Taff in its abortive attempt to connect with the TVR. As the terminus of the CR was Rhydyfelin, I expect the bridge was only ever used the once and that was the day the CR made the only connection with the TVR and the junction removed thereafter.

 

There are pictures of the old Glamorgan Canal 'tunnel' that ran under the CR embankment - but I didn't save any of those.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Here's a Google view of the columns: https://www.google.fr/maps/@51.584703,-3.3175223,73m/data=!3m1!1e3

Edited by Philou
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Thanks for the Google earth picture. 

 

If you follow the river south, you can still see the remaining pillars and the western abutments of the Walnut Tree viaduct.

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On 13/08/2020 at 18:40, Philou said:

Ah, while I think about it, I think Upper Boat takes its name from a ferry across the Taff that once existed there.

 

I lived in Tonteg from 1976 to '82 (hence my Saturday commute above) and I was quite surprised when I discovered a whole load of railway infrastructure just behind our estate. All swept away now by the new A473 bypassing Tonteg, Church Village etc using mainly the old railway alignment.

 

There were also some concrete-filled cast iron columns standing in the river bed at Rhydyfelin where the Cardiff Railway crossed the Taff in its abortive attempt to connect with the TVR. As the terminus of the CR was Rhydyfelin, I expect the bridge was only ever used the once and that was the day the CR made the only connection with the TVR and the junction removed thereafter.

 

There are pictures of the old Glamorgan Canal 'tunnel' that ran under the CR embankment - but I didn't save any of those.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Here's a Google view of the columns: https://www.google.fr/maps/@51.584703,-3.3175223,73m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

That's the feeder leat that runs from Treforest, down to the old tinplate works. As you know, the weir still works! That, and the one at Meligriffith, would both be put back into working order, if need be. Tonteg platforms are still there, hidden in the undergrowth. You can just make out the platforms as you descend the new Power Station hill'. Just below that, the earlier Powells Tramroad crossed the hill, up until when the road improvements were carried out. It was closed in 1932, when the Western remodelled Tonteg.  

 

Revisiting Upper Boat, there is a photo of a Cardiff 0-6-0 at Upper boat. In the background are a set of steps leading upwards. These steps led to the Glamorgan canal. Thomas Powells Tramroad was constructed under the '6 mile clause' (3 miles? Need to check...) that allowed the tramroad to cross the River Taff, and up a rope hauled incline, up & across Maesmawr, up to Tonteg.

 

Cheers,

Ian. 

Edited by tomparryharry
Typo:- Changed 'waterfall' to Weir. So sorry!
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I can't find a way (at the moment) to extract the pictures from my OpenOffice document directly into a reply here - there is a way as I did in a PM ages ago to someone else. Failing all else, I'll do either a .doc or .pdf file which I shall reduce in size as presently it's 22Mb!!

 

Regarding the remaining pillars of the viaduct, I have some that were taken when the tree cover was much reduced. I was able to determine approx. dimensions from them for the viaduct (counting bricks for a start!). Recently I came across some design drawings of the viaduct and I was gratified to see that I was only inches out overall - not too bad for guess work and abstracting info from a few photos.

 

The photos of the erection of the viaduct showed the principle of the steelwork and details that were hidden. Interestingly, the photos seem to show that the steelwork was erected at near-ground level for some spans, others were 'launched' onto half-built pillars, and then using hydraulic jacks, the pillars were raised bit by bit. Shades of Brunel and the Clifton suspension bridge appear as the viaduct pillars were hollow - something that was only known to me by way of the drawings.

 

Regarding the catwalk, is there any way of knowing if handrails were provided? Nothing I have (not even the drawings) show the catwalk in detail.

 

I'll try and post up tomorrow.

 

Here's the 56xx as a Word .doc for the moment:

 

Walnut1.doc

 

and a photo of 'Emerald Isle' belonging to the Mellingriffith works that I think is a Peckett. The quality is poor:

 

421472395_1424-peckettEmeraldIsle.jpg.aec8916e3f8446994fd872a2e401bd63.jpg

 

I'll do 'Princess May' belonging to the Pentyrch ironworks tomorrow.It's an 0-4-0 but I don't know its provenance.

 

Having seen mention of TGV/other locos in the same breath here's a photo of the two grandson having a Grand Prix race last year between a TGV and a Holden - the Holden was fastest!

 

20181104_121500.jpg.b99d9487db51de5851ff76d0cde45d3d.jpg

 

Cheers everyone,

 

Philip

 

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@tomparryharry My reply crossed yours - sorry. I never knew about the rope/tramway! And despite living in Tonteg, I never realised the platforms were still there. I had an inkling of the general run of the railways that were there as I worked in what was the Mid-Glamorgan Highways Department had access to the OS maps for the area.

 

I was also one of those responsible for using most of the old lines for new roads (though not the Tonteg bypass, I hasten to add). Nelson, Tonyrefail to Trehafod, Talbot Green, Aberdare and Bargoed bypasses were all my (and colleagues) designs - sorry!

 

However, I did make amends somewhat, by getting a station built for me on the City Line (Waun-gron Park/Parc) - yes, for me, seriously.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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Interesting posts about all the historical railway stuff in Wales. I was reading about the local monorail. Apart from photos there is a bit of wall that was part of the ticket office. At one time developers were trying to suggest Canvey as an alternative to the South of France. 

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21 hours ago, Tony_S said:

If they were on different shelves the higher one would be travelling at a different velocity than the lower one so would display differently. It would probably have to be a very tall window though. 

 

You jest but the experiment has been done with a caesium primary frequency standard - though with just the one, and jacking it up, comparing the two positions with the local ultrastable frequency reference. The expected frequency shift was seen - its a relative frequency shift of 1 x 10^-16 per metre - it's actually a different acceleration due to gravity, rather than velocity, that causes the effect, unlike taking one clock round the world on an aircraft and comparing it with the clock left at home. Although each caesium primary frequency standard correctly realises the SI second in its own gravitational reference frame, when they are used to correct the timescale produced by the HP clocks etc. discussed previously, a correction has to be made for the height above the geoid - a gravitational equipotential surface which is the latter-day equivalent of mean sea level at Newlyn.

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22 hours ago, Tony_S said:

If they were on different shelves the higher one would be travelling at a different velocity than the lower one so would display differently. It would probably have to be a very tall window though. 

It was in one of those steel & glass shopping centres (the eagle centre in Derby so one of them might have been in a shadow. Would that have an effect Stephen?

Edited by laurenceb
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Bit of a long and wearying day sorting out the shed apres le deluge (and no, I've never been on 617). Apart from some damaged stocks of wood etc., areas of floor paint lifting and some of Jill's art stuff suffering there isn't any real damage but the smell is a bit 'orrid and I hope it will go away in time.

 

I was in the only profession where when you leave they take the watch back!

 

Since then I've had just one 25 quid Lorus that has no extraneous buttons or beepers but is waterproof and tells the time reasonably well, i.e., it needs a tweak about once every six months or so when it gets about ten seconds adrift. I don't have any panniers.

 

11 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

But at the time I was a fit, charming and just delightfully handsome young man....

 

Thought I'd wandered into the jokes forum for a minute there..... 

 

Stay safe and prosper as Mr. Spock nearly said.

 

Dave

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The Walnut Tree viaduct did have handrails on the catwalk.

 

Even in those far off days when H&S was a bit lax, there were certain standards that were accepted.

 

I think I have seen a photo of them somewhere.

 

I suspect someone from the WRRC would probably have the definitive answer as to their spacing, but I'd suggest they'd be pretty standard and were probably of the same make as the viaduct side railings at track level.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

 

Since then I've had just one 25 quid Lorus that has no extraneous buttons or beepers but is waterproof and tells the time reasonably well, i.e., it needs a tweak about once every six months or so when it gets about ten seconds adrift.

 

I have a broken watch.

It's better than one that is always ten seconds adrift.

 

At least mine shows the correct time twice each day.

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21 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I was in the only profession where when you leave they take the watch back!

 

 

My Dad had his RAF-issued watch stolen by a medical orderly when he was recovering in hospital at Onchan Head after his Anson crashed into the Isle of Man.  It always annoyed him, probably because it was a better watch than anything he could aspire to in civvy street.  Having heard so much about how the Air Force was run in those days I imagine that he got into more trouble for losing the watch than the Anson.

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8 hours ago, Philou said:

 

However, I did make amends somewhat, by getting a station built for me on the City Line (Waun-gron Park/Parc) - yes, for me, seriously.

 

I am sure that my late friend Alan Jarvis, who lived nearby, would have been grateful.

 

Chris

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Apparently  the phrase "If you want to know the tine. Ask a policeman" originated because it was alleged that bobbies in 19th Century London used to acquire watches either from corpses or drunks.  I  of course couldn't possibly comment but the reason I wear a Rotary watch is that, many years ago, I won fourvof them on Sale of the Century. Thecladies one was kept and I gave it to Beth a couple of years later as an engagement  present. Romantic old fool that I am.

 

Jamie

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Good morning chums,

 

Our heatwave has broken and it's raining at the moment and so no scaffolding until it eases off.

 

Here is 'Princess May', an 0-4-0ST loco (of unknown provenance to me), 'one of the locos' used at the Gwaelod-y-Garth foundry, so the name Gwaelod-y-Garth was also in use in the early days. I've just noticed that in the background of the photo it says 'Keen & Nettlefolds'. Were these small ironworks part of the GKN group?

 

Princess May.pdf

 

This one concerns the 4-track Mellingriffith works flat crossing with the TVR:

MellingriffithCrossing.pdf

 

An unusual shot taken from an ex-GWR hauled passenger train over the viaduct:

WalnutTree1958.pdf

 

Here is a more usual view of the viaduct but with an ex-LNWR hauled passenger working:

WalnutTree exLNWR.pdf

 

Here"s a little something to test your weathering techniques:

WalnutTree Dolomite works.pdf

 

I also have OS maps of before and after the viaduct showing two Pentyrch Ironworks - possibly one of them is the Gwaelod-y-Garth works referred to above. There is shown a continuous rail link between these two sites and the Mellingriffith works that was broken after the viaduct was built.

 

There you go, Mr Hippo. I have other photos if anyone wants to have a look.

 

Cheers and have a good day everyone. Rain has stopped my play indoors and I'm off onto the scaffolding.

 

Philip

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Her is a clip of drone footage of the remains of the viaduct.

 

 

At 1:57 you can clearly see that the pillar was not rectangular but was shaped in order to make the curve at the southwestern end.

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34 minutes ago, Philou said:

I also have OS maps of before and after the viaduct showing two Pentyrch Ironworks - possibly one of them is the Gwaelod-y-Garth works referred to above. There is shown a continuous rail link between these two sites and the Mellingriffith works that was broken after the viaduct was built.

 

 

The RA Cooke GR/BR(W) Track Layout Diagrams Section 46B shows some of tramway tracks with their closure dates.

Originally the Tramroad, converted to Railway in 1871/2 according to Cooke, ran from the Melingriffith Works in Llandaff, to Taffs Well Siding to the north of Taffs Well.

 

The line of this to the west and north of Pentyrch Crossing being cut off from the rest of the system by 1900.  This left  a single stretch of track to the west of PC which appears to have been used as a siding to TYnant quarry.  However this siding would also have been needed as the single exchange siding  on the up side at PC was the sole connection to the national rail network.  Any train coming up from Melingriffith would cross the  TVR at PC proceed up to Tynant quarry, and then reverse back into the exchange siding.  The tramway from Melingriffith to PC was taken up in 1961 which preceeded the closure and removal of the crossing and the closure of the signal box a year later.

 

Further north the parts of the tramway serving the Pentyrch steel and Tinplate works are listed as removed by 1943.

 

What is not clear is whether other elements of the old tramway were still in use after that as the connection to the old TVR line at Taffs Well sidings was not severed until 1964.

 

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11 hours ago, laurenceb said:

one of them might have been in a shadow. Would that have an effect Stephen?

 

Yes, there is a frequency shift due to interaction of the caesium atoms with thermal radiation. Although it's a small effect, the primary standards are at the level where it has to be corrected for - the definition of the second specifies that the frequency of the caseium-133 ground state hyperfine transition at 0 Kelvin.

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Sorry to be thick Stephen but I thought that 0 Kelvin is unobtainable and even if it was the laws of physics get somewhat altered as it is approached?

 

Maybe I should stick to locomotives and aeroplanes?

 

Dave 

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It's nice to be an honarary member of the WRRC or have I strayed into the wrong thread.  Yes Keen and Nettlefold were the K and N of GKN. Gwas Guest, no relation.  I did read somewhere that it became Guest Keen before Nettlefold was added.  I once shut someone up in the pub who was name dropping, by casually mentioning the G and Guest connection.

 

Jamie

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Meeting 'names'...

 

When we moved to Cornwall, ECC HQ was John Key House, a 1/4 mile long, 6 story high building that overlooks St Austell.  I left ECC, IMERYS took over (not connected incidents !) and JKH was sold to Cornwall College, which now has several sites around Cornwall.

 

Jobs changed and I got a 3 year contract with the college in the IT dept. For a time I was also a Staff governor, and meetings were held at the College's main facility, namely JKH in St Austell.

 

One of the other governors was a gent called Graham Lovering - yes, the same Lovering family that was part of ECLP, that became ECC... 

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@jamie92208 As a yoof, I remember a rather large watertower on the edge of Cardiff city centre adjoining the 'Dowlais' steelworks site that was spread east of the docks. (The Dowlais name coming from when the steelworks moved from Dowlais in Merthyr to Cardiff East Moors). The name emblazoned upon the tower was GKIS (no N) that I assume was Guest Keen Iron and Steel - when it became GKN, I don't know. I think it may have changed names a few times before finally closing down.

 

I don't even recall when East Moors closed down permanently - sometime after Margam and Llanwern came into being I expect. There is still today a specialist steelwork plant on the site with the ladles still transported on rail. I remember (here we go again) being young walking down to East Moors and watching the ladles with their white hot slag being tipped onto the foreshore - accompanied by a rather loud explosion as the slag hit the sea.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

PS: I'm back in as the rain decided to come back - but now the blazing sun has arrived - drat!!

 

PPS: I just googled GKN - the name did change a lot from the 1930s until its closure in 1978.

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