The Night Mail

[iL Dottore]

14 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I don't recall the station, but IIRC the survey would be carried out at something like 11am, when many stations are pretty much dead.  Go there in the "rush hour" though and it's a totally different story....

By any standard, even by those of those more deferential times, the survey of BR passenger use was definitely - to borrow a phrase from our resident constable - “a fit up“. Only being a small boy when Beeching wielded his axe, I obviously wasn’t aware of the discussions, if any, that may have occurred in the newspapers about Beeching and his methodology. But surely somebody at the time pointed out how dodgy the whole exercise was?

I know it’s done, and far too frequently, but there’s something very wrong and dishonest about cherry picking data to support a preconceived conclusion. Data should drive conclusions, not the other way around.

 

One other thing about the Beeching closures that I find absurd, is how fast BR started ripping up tracks and tearing down/destroying the infrastructure after the closures took place. It was done with undue haste, in fact some could say indecent haste - it’s almost as though certain people in the government and elsewhere were terrified that the Beeching closures might have been reversed by a future government and all the closed lines and stations reopened. So they destroyed a railway legacy as fast as they could.

 

I would also argue that the closures were done without any thought about the future. Even in the early 60s, it must’ve been obvious to the levelheaded and clear thinking, that the population would grow, new arrivals would expand small villages into small towns and that the transport needs and centres would change in response. Mothballing instead of tearing down would have been a sensible precaution.

 

But even back then I guess the British Government and Whitehall don’t/didn’t  “do” long term thinking very well…. 

[pH]

45 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

I know it’s done, and far too frequently, but there’s something very wrong and dishonest about cherry picking data to support a preconceived conclusion. Data should drive conclusions, not the other way around.

Obviously not written in your Captain Cynical persona!

[JohnDMJ]

Good  Morning, for it has that potential.

 

POTS day about to start; note the lack of the 'E'!

 

Elsewhere:

 

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

By any standard, even by those of those more deferential times, the survey of BR passenger use was definitely - to borrow a phrase from our resident constable - “a fit up“. Only being a small boy when Beeching wielded his axe, I obviously wasn’t aware of the discussions, if any, that may have occurred in the newspapers about Beeching and his methodology. But surely somebody at the time pointed out how dodgy the whole exercise was?

 

 

Point of Order, Sir.

 

Beeching did not wield the axe; he merely put his name to a summary report on which others in government acted

[AndyID]

The tread is now circular and the bore is a tight fit on a Meccano axle. I also depressed the center slightly. It will need a bit of clean-up with a file. This filament tends to be a bit more "stringy" than some others.

 

Pic is twice actual size.

 

[AndyID]

If I were to build a garden railway (most likely battery powered with radio/control) I'd probably want to model UK/BR stuff and I'm thinking it would make sense to run it on 45 mm gauge track. The closest scale would be 1:32 for standard gauge models.

 

Does that make sense or would I regret it?

 

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, JohnDMJ said:

…Point of Order, Sir.

 

Beeching did not wield the axe; he merely put his name to a summary report on which others in government acted

Exquisite pedantry, my dear Sir, utterly exquisite. 
It used to be that if you signed something off, you were responsible. Clearly not.

You are wasted in your current job, Sirrah: Whitehall beckons!

[AndyID]

Beeching simply did what he was asked to do. His job was to identify how BR could stop hemorrhaging huge amounts of money when the UK economy was in the toilet. (We might mention how much the US helped the reconstruction of Europe while it pretty much ignored the UK but that would be getting far too political.)

 

The vision of the UK's future was the government's responsibility, not Beeching's. He was just the accountant or, if you prefer, the fall guy.

 

IMHO the gigantic mistake the UK government made was giving up the right of ways. That's the real asset. The cost of track and stock is peanuts by comparison.

[New Haven Neil]

I amuse myself (easily!) watching railway webcams, and the US has them sown up of course.  This one is new, in Rochelle, Illinois and is mighty busy by US standards (not Rick's!).  A new game when watching Union Pacific trains at night, is the streetlight on the right (when cam is pointing west along the UP tracks - the others are BNSF) by the signal gantry goes out when a train approaches, the headlights triggering the sensor into thinking it is daylight.  Little things.....

 

Seen 5 trains this morning already.

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

By any standard, even by those of those more deferential times, the survey of BR passenger use was definitely - to borrow a phrase from our resident constable - “a fit up“. Only being a small boy when Beeching wielded his axe, I obviously wasn’t aware of the discussions, if any, that may have occurred in the newspapers about Beeching and his methodology. But surely somebody at the time pointed out how dodgy the whole exercise was?

I know it’s done, and far too frequently, but there’s something very wrong and dishonest about cherry picking data to support a preconceived conclusion. Data should drive conclusions, not the other way around.

 

One other thing about the Beeching closures that I find absurd, is how fast BR started ripping up tracks and tearing down/destroying the infrastructure after the closures took place. It was done with undue haste, in fact some could say indecent haste - it’s almost as though certain people in the government and elsewhere were terrified that the Beeching closures might have been reversed by a future government and all the closed lines and stations reopened. So they destroyed a railway legacy as fast as they could.

 

I would also argue that the closures were done without any thought about the future. Even in the early 60s, it must’ve been obvious to the levelheaded and clear thinking, that the population would grow, new arrivals would expand small villages into small towns and that the transport needs and centres would change in response. Mothballing instead of tearing down would have been a sensible precaution.

 

But even back then I guess the British Government and Whitehall don’t/didn’t  “do” long term thinking very well…. 

 

I think the demolition wasn't done maliciously but rather reflected t the feeling of the time. You have only to look around the cities and see the wholesale clearances that were undertaken at the same time. There really was a feeling that things were on the up and that change was good. There was none of the requirement to have continual reviews , just look at the fiasco of the new runway at Heathrow, or the fear of something new. Was that a bad thing? I don't know but certainly if it hadn't occurred I don't we think we would have half the infrastructure that we now have.

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

If I were to build a garden railway (most likely battery powered with radio/control) I'd probably want to model UK/BR stuff and I'm thinking it would make sense to run it on 45 mm gauge track. The closest scale would be 1:32 for standard gauge models.

 

Does that make sense or would I regret it?

 

Aka Gauge 1.

 

Lovely stuff, price tag to match.

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

…We might mention how much the US helped the reconstruction of Europe while it pretty much ignored the UK…

This is a common misperception. Britain was actually the largest recipient of Marshall Plan money (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#United_Kingdom) but basically used a lot of the money to repay Lend-Lease and (according to modern historians) to prop up the pound instead of letting Sterling find its’ own level. As one historian caustically said (and you may or may not agree with him) Europe used the Marshall Plan to rebuild, Britain used the Marshall Plan to delay the end of an Empire

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, AndyID said:

If I were to build a garden railway (most likely battery powered with radio/control) I'd probably want to model UK/BR stuff and I'm thinking it would make sense to run it on 45 mm gauge track. The closest scale would be 1:32 for standard gauge models.

 

Does that make sense or would I regret it?

 

If you can afford it why not? There's plenty of 1/32 scale stuff around to go with it. For figures look at Scalextric accessories and for road vehicles there's plenty of plastic kits and Britains diecast Landrovers and trucks.

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

But even back then I guess the British Government and Whitehall don’t/didn’t  “do” long term thinking very well…. 

A disadvantage of the democratic system I'm afraid. Most politicians are incapable of thinking further than the next election. Churchill once said that democracy was a terrible system until you looked at the alternatives. (The alternative he was speaking of was Stalin.)

57 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

 

I think the demolition wasn't done maliciously but rather reflected t the feeling of the time. You have only to look around the cities and see the wholesale clearances that were undertaken at the same time. There really was a feeling that things were on the up and that change was good. There was none of the requirement to have continual reviews , just look at the fiasco of the new runway at Heathrow, or the fear of something new. Was that a bad thing? I don't know but certainly if it hadn't occurred I don't we think we would have half the infrastructure that we now have.

The closure of uneconomic branch lines was going on long before anyone had even heard of Beeching. The  railway companies had shareholders who wanted a return for their investment and many branch lines were closed from after the Great War and even into the early fifties. Even many of those closed by BR were slated for closure by the companies before nationalisation.

[Dunsignalling]

The real damage that ensued from Beeching was not the loss of branch lines, most of which were already well on the way to oblivion (as others have stated).

 

The effects we are still feeling now came from the loss of cross-country and so-called "duplicated" routes. Had they been pruned less ruthlessly, our remaining lines would be under less capacity pressure and many towns that have grown substantially since, would not be without a rail connection.

 

I'm not sure how beneficial mothballing would have been, though. If BR hadn't demolished disused infrastructure, I suspect it would have happened "informally" through vandalism and metal theft long before any idea of revival emerged.

 

John

[PhilJ W]

I can think of two lines in East Anglia that only survived because they served the then newly built nuclear power stations. The Southminster branch and the Sizewell branch. The Southminster branch is now a busy commuter line and the Sizewell branch is still open for the nuclear traffic but used infrequently.

[polybear]

3 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Exquisite pedantry, my dear Sir, utterly exquisite. 
It used to be that if you signed something off, you were responsible. Clearly not.

You are wasted in your current job, Sirrah: Whitehall beckons!

 

Beeching was the Judge, the Government merely the Hangman.....

[Oldddudders]

11 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Beeching was the Judge, the Government merely the Hangman.....

And John Nunneley, a former army officer, was the spin-doctor. Having worked for Beaverbrook was a good start....

 

Last night we had a rather bad evening at another theatre. Was the play 'off'? No, it was going very well, with a rich set and lovely (Pre-war) costumed ladies - until the leading lady, playing Queen Mary, collapsed towards the end of Act 1. Since she (75!) is well-known to us, having directed Sherry more than once, this was a mite distressing, so we were glad to learn she has already returned home from hospital. 

 

The play, Crown Matrimonial, is about the constitutional crisis of 1936 and Edward VIII, who is the male lead. Wallis Simpson does not appear. I believe there is, later in the play, reference to Lord Hardinge, who was Edward's Private Secretary. His grandson, the present Lord Hardinge, or 4th Baron Hardinge of Penshurst, is a Chess Grand Master, among other accomplishments, and runs a publishing imprint specialising in chess books, and biographies. For more than a decade he was in a relationship with my late sister-in-law, and periodically slept under our roof when (late first wife) Deb and I lived in Kent. Julian and Helen met when he came to manage the Economist Bookshop, opposite the LSE. I believe he holds papers dating back to the 1936 crisis that the Palace would dearly love to get their hands on....

[Happy Hippo]

We got to Reading in one piece despite traffic jams around the M6/M42 corridor and a couple of manic drivers who appeared to be running late for their own funerals. The weather en route was variable as we were skirting the edge of Storm Arwen.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Happy Hippo

[J. S. Bach]

On 25/11/2021 at 04:26, Happy Hippo said:

 ...snip... Our local priest told me there is a special place in hell for those who do not like pannier tanks.

I like panniers somewhat:

 

 

But I am more partial to saddle-tankers:

Note that the prototype of this ran in and around the docks in Baltimore, MD. I believe that there were only two but the model manufacturers have made millions of models of these in ALL of the scales. The one above is O (1/48) by KTM.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by J. S. Bach
To do a minor edit.

[Happy Hippo]

There was a Kenversions style kit to turn a Mamod SL1into a very similar saddle tank

[Stubby47]

Defence News Quiz

 

https://www.forces.net/news/quiz-how-closely-have-you-been-paying-attention-defence-news

 

I got 6/7.

[JohnDMJ]

Good Evening Awl, for POTS day is drawing to a close.

 

Having not used the car for several weeks, must ensure that it is in working order to take to its MOT and Service venue next week; this includes the insertion of petrol over the weekend.

 

In previous news:

 

11 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Exquisite pedantry, my dear Sir, utterly exquisite. 
It used to be that if you signed something off, you were responsible. Clearly not.

You are wasted in your current job, Sirrah: Whitehall beckons!

 

10 hours ago, AndyID said:

Beeching simply did what he was asked to do. His job was to identify how BR could stop hemorrhaging huge amounts of money when the UK economy was in the toilet. (We might mention how much the US helped the reconstruction of Europe while it pretty much ignored the UK but that would be getting far too political.)

 

The vision of the UK's future was the government's responsibility, not Beeching's. He was just the accountant or, if you prefer, the fall guy.

 

IMHO the gigantic mistake the UK government made was giving up the right of ways. That's the real asset. The cost of track and stock is peanuts by comparison.

 

This is evidenced in that not all of his recommendations were implemented. Given he was a PhD and not a 'doctor', cuts were not in his remit, just presenting the cases for each line.

[Happy Hippo]

For those suffering the effects of Storm Arwen, I can only apologise.

 

Arwen is the middle name of our youngest granddaughter, and in Welsh is originally supposed to mean 'fair' or 'good'. Rather inappropriate for the storm one would think!

[simontaylor484]

2 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Defence News Quiz

 

https://www.forces.net/news/quiz-how-closely-have-you-been-paying-attention-defence-news

 

I got 6/7.

Likewise it was the question about the future of the Army I got wrong

[Dave Hunt]

I drove to Oakham and back today to take our friend home after her stay. I went through light rain, sunshine, heavy rain, hail, sleet, torrential downpours and gales. All in all a fairly average English November day - the BBC forecast was for light cloud and a moderate breeze. Tomorrow I'm picking Crimson Rambler up at Shrewsbury when he arrives by train then we're going to the Warley Club show at their clubrooms. The last time I looked at the forecast it was for strong winds and periods of heavy rain so if it's as close as today's was we may end up floating past Bristol. 

 

Time to get my oilskins and crash helmet out of the loft.

 

Dave